another good reason to dislike antibacterial soap

[timouse]

this study, appearing in Environmental Science and Technology, is sort of tough reading but makes some scary points.

many of the main ingredients in antibacterial cleaning products are not broken down during waterwater treatment, and make it into the wider environment in sewage sludge or effluent released to lakes and rivers.

one more good reason to use natural cleaners

[Alexis]

paisley made a good point one trip...."you get all dirty, so you go and "clean" yourself with a bunch of chemicals, yeah, THAT'S clean" or something close to that.

[payce-ley]

yays, the point in a general nutshell... strip away your natural oils and replace them with artificial oils that attempt to mimic your own (not to be confused with being obliviously rank from a trip to good ol Benderville)

too many scientists crammed into labs trying to out-do Mom Earth with patented chemical stews... not enough natural historians studying whats worked very well for millenium

"get away from me, you hairy savages."

came across this interesting/squirmish tale yesterday of this guy who cured his athsma/hayfever by travelling to Cameroon and infecting himself with hookworm.

apperently athsma and hayfever are "western" afflictions... if you have the right parasites "on board" they'll keep you on the up and up (to paraphrase, you're essentially the planet they live on, so they want you around as long as possible)

little too hardcore for me but an interesting read (recommend you save the read for after dinner)

be sure to read through some of the refernce links he provides

Edited May 9, 2006 by Guest
yes

[elemeno]

oooh good, more reason for all you wookies to stink it up

[SmoothedShredder]

Didn't get my flu shot either... bitches!

[Guest Low Roller]

Smells like wookie propaganda to me.

[Baj]

timouse or anyone else ... list some good natural soaps...ones that you can use when camping in lakes and such...without causing damage

[Calamity Jane]

bumping this 'cause I also want the answer to baj's question.

also...Pais...your little story summary there reminds me of the South Park episode where the parents send their kids over to Kenny's house when he has Chicken Pox to play "lick to oozing sore" or some such game, so they'll get infected with the Pox and then will fight it off naturally.

This USED to be common practice...(well not licking ooozing pox)...to let kids pass this kind of sickness around, as it's dealt with more easily in childhood than adulthood. Now, rather than encouraging this type of "active" natural resistance to viruses, the big pharmaceuticals produce vaccines and scare the shit outta parents to get them!

[\/\/illy]

timouse or anyone else ... list some good natural soaps...ones that you can use when camping in lakes and such...without causing damage

Actually, there are no soaps that should be used 'in lakes'. Even biodegradeable soaps are meant to be used on land and away from the water table.

[Baj]

Makes sense just thought they came up with someTING

[MamaPink]

I sell this Body Wash that is bio-degradable and made of all natural ingredients. (The glycerin is even made from vegetables) It's also tasty!! Yes, that's right, you can eat it. I'm not sure, but I would imagine it would also be safe to use in the lake aswell.

You can brush your teeth with it, wash your hair with it, and it's a very refreshing feeling. Perfect for festivals because you feel SO clean after using it. (Kinda like what your mouth feels like after you brush your teeth - super clean)

It is also safe for babies so if it gets in your eyes, it won't sting... it's very mild.

Another added bonus is that the menthol helps to keep the mosquitoes away.

I'm not sure if it holds up to all the hippie standards out there, but it is a favourite in our house. It's all we take with us when I go camping.

[Baj]

WOWSERS I want some of that soap mama

[MamaPink]

It's a great big bottle and it costs $21.95. Most people I know save it for when they're camping or on vacation - but i can't resist using it every time I shower.

If you really are interested, PM me and we can work something out...

[Alexis]

i have said soap, and while tons of people laugh at me when i use it as toothpaste, it's so nice to bring just one bottle of crap with you. so many less bottles to squeeze open and ooze all over your stuff. the taste is a little meh, not as minty as toothpaste, but it sure beats cat ass morning breath.

[Im going home Donny]

Didn't get my flu shot either... bitches!

Good on ya!

The Flu shot given to adults and children and vaccines given to children...which by the way are ever increasingly being linked to The Autism spectrum(ADD, ADHD, Dyslexia, Asburgers syndrome & Autism)...are preserved using Thimerossal an organic compound that is 49.6 percent ethylmercury.

Nothing like a little mercury poisoning to keep the flu away and keep us all safe. :crazy:

Heavy Metal music...good.

Heavy Metal in your blood...very bad beans man.

[d_rawk]

I've got a feeling you just re-opened a can of worms, Howler.

I managed to stay out of the last debate on this board, because it was considered authoritative and decisive that foregoing a flu vacination was akin to foregoing a polio vacination. This of course ignored the fact that one is a moving target in a way that the other was not, and the cost-benefit analysis (Thimerossal only being one of those costs) that needs to be taken into account in that light.

Re: soap -- I always liked Miracle II for showering and for brushing, but I think that it may be harder to get it into the country these days because of a problem they had with the production of one of their products (Neutralizer).

[phorbesie]

i've always liked dr. bronners soap. i usually get peppermint but there are several types. you can use it for anything as well. it's also entertaining to read the bottle while using!

[d_rawk]

Haha -- yeah! I forgot about Bronners. Definately a wild read. He could charge for just the label

(but it strips all the oils off my hair if I try to shampoo with it!)

[phorbesie]

definitely very strong if undiluted!

but it's good for using on dreds, to make sure nothing bad is getting in there

[Calamity Jane]

Phorbesie: can you bring Dr. Bonners to CTMF so I can see & smell it?? sounds intriguing!

[bokonon]

If you're looking for a good way to keep dreads clean I did a controlled variable experiment. I've had dreads twice for two years each. First time I did not use tea tree oil and when I cut my hair there was blue mould in my dreads.Time number two I sprinkled a little tea tree oil on my head before my shower a few times a week and let it seep in to all my dreads using the shower water as a vehicle and no mould or any nasties when I cut off the last ones.

The experiment is over and the electric razor is now my favourite hair product. :cool:

oh yeah, and carbolic soap is a good mosquito repellant.

And no soap is a good woman repellant.

[phorbesie]

CJ, i'm not going to CTMF this time but i'll get you a bottle soonish...

i usually get friends to bring it up from the US cause it's like 10 times cheaper there than here.

i used tea tree oil when i had dreds as well, no problems ever.

[timouse]

more studies on the persistence of antibacterial agents in household cleaning products, with more of the same sort of conclusions.

Clean Water Report

May 15, 2006

Eliminate antibacterials

SLANTS & TRENDS

ELIMINATE ANTIBACTERIALS

--That is the advice of Johns Hopkins University assistant professor Rolf

Halden, who has done research on the ingredients in sludge (see story, this

page). The Food and Drug Administration has concluded that the average

consumer does not benefit from products containing persistent

antimicrobials. However, they do pose a risk to humans when they accumulate

in biosolids that are land-applied. Given the risks and no known benefits,

government agencies should consider a ban on these substances in every day

products, he says.

Consumers should become aware of the environmental risks from persistent

antimicrobials and simply avoid prod-ucts containing the ingredients.

Farmers must determine whether the chemicals transfer to food crops and

determine which crops take up the chemicals. To protect public health,

farmers can limit the amount of biosolids used on those crops. Halden does

not recommend a ban on biosolids land-application because he recognizes the

benefits from using biosolids as fertilizer.

Clean Water Report

.........................................................

May 15, 2006

Antibacterial ingredient in sludge could pose risk, researchers say.

Wastewater treatment plants might have to find another method for reducing

antimicrobials in biosolids, because anaerobic digestion is not doing the

job on emerging contaminants, according to researchers at Johns Hopkins

University School of Public Health.

For the study, the researchers collected samples from a large urban sewage

treatment facility in the East. They tracked the mass of triclocarban

entering the plant in wastewater and leaving in reclaimed water and

municipal sludge. About 75 percent of the ingredient accumulates in

biosolids. The ingredients could pose a risk to humans when biosolids with

antimicrobials are used for fertilizer, said Rolf Halden, senior author and

assistant professor.

"It is unclear at the moment how the various sludge treatment techniques

affect the concentrations of persistent antimicrobials in biosolids. The

present study clearly demonstrates that anaerobic digestion is fairly

ineffective in lowering levels of the compounds. Yet unpublished data

demonstrate that heat sterilization of sludge for transformation to Class A

biosolids also does not lower concentrations of antimicrobials below

milligram per kilogram of weight levels," he toldCWR.

Triclocarban also shows up in waterways.

In 2005, Halden's team published a study estimating that about 60 per-cent

of surface waterwayshave detectable concentrations of triclocarban. A new

study will confirm this earlier research, he said.

However, researchers do not know what concentrations are harmful to humans

or how much triclocarban bioaccumulates. Scientists have notemployed new

techniques to assess toxicity for triclocarban, and bioaccumulation data are

unavailable, Halden said.

Researchers have confirmed that triclocarban is a precursor of chloroanilies

that are formed during degradation and metabolism of antiseptic compound.

Scientists have to determine what the contribution ofenvironmental exposures

to the total body burden of these compounds is.

In addition, the antibacterial ingredient in soap and other products does

not provide benefits to the average consumer, the Food and Drug

Administration said.

Contact: Rolf Halden, Johns Hopkins University, (410) 955-2609,

rhalden@jhsph.edu.