yayyyyyy God

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

I discovered a very solid documentary on fundamentalists, looking at Christian, Islamic, Buddhist, and other varieties, with adequate caution around the differences - I'd recommend checking it out, if you've got the time.

The Fundamentalists

[Kanada Kev]

Thanks for posting that ... i will def check this out. Looks good.

[timouse]

I discovered a very solid documentary on fundamentalists, looking at Christian, Islamic, Buddhist, and other varieties, with adequate caution around the differences - I'd recommend checking it out, if you've got the time.

The Fundamentalists

reminds me of a quote.

"People ask me what a fundamentalist is. I tell them to go look up fundament in the dictionary."

-Utah Phillips

[Kanada Kev]

I watched the first part of 3 last night and really enjoyed it. Look forward to seeing the rest of it.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

I got through the lot last night; it's all good (has to be, I figure - it's got the Karen Armstrong Seal of Approval ).

The argument is nothing terribly new - that fundamentalists of all stripes are people living in modernity who are made psychologically insecure by it (at the same time as empowered by it; this is the gist of all the essays in The Fundamentalism Project ) - but it's an important one that needs to be repeated a lot.

[Biggest Fan]

Great spot for this story. So as a teacher in an alternative education program in a rough inner city I was talking to a 'good christian' in the class about how 'christians' do not get their sister to meet up with their 'foe' at a bus stop after school. Edgy YES wrong no. Well anyways the mother who was one of the main inspirations behind the bus stop plan has a meeting planned with her, myself, and my 'boss' in the morning. She did not like my evaluation of the situation and feels that it should be brought to the attention of the administation.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

Do you mean, this sister had been intending (or been "intended") to meet with someone at a bus-stop for purposes of proselytisation? I.e., is the bus-stop being considered as a strategic point for the evangelisation of someone considered "target-worthy"?

[phishtaper]

huh?

[Biggest Fan]

#1 My Boss was very cool about the whole thing when I pulled him aside first thing in the AM. He was not real thrilled but understood what I was trying to do. #2 Crazy mom was a no show. I was not up for battling 'crazy mom'.

The 'story' goes that there was a girl and boy going at it verbally on and off for a week or so in class. The young man had said that he was going to get his sister to fight the young lady. So after school last friday the boys sister (-n- apperently his father) were present at the girls bus stop. The girl did not get off the stop. *This week the boy showed up at school and another student 'spills the beans' about the whole bus stop event. **It was at this time when I questioned the boy about the 'christianity' he so proudly swears by. To be honest it gave the kid something to think about (revenge v. forgiveness) but what a mess.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

Check this out - if you've ever been handed a Chick Tract, you'll enjoy this especially.

Etc... till the classic "last page":

The rest: The Jack T. Chick Parody Archive

[Birdy]

This thread kind of drives me crazy in the same respect as those who think extreme muslims represent all muslims drive me crazy.

Not saying that anyone in particular participating thinks whacked out fundamentalists represent all Christians, it's just this threads very existence... and perhaps its title.

[Kanada Kev]

[d_rawk]

This thread kind of drives me crazy in the same respect as those who think extreme muslims represent all muslims drive me crazy.

Not saying that anyone in particular participating thinks whacked out fundamentalists represent all Christians, it's just this threads very existence... and perhaps its title.

I mostly just get a laugh out of it and move on, but yeah, I worry about and get a bit bummed at the whole lumping in and stereotyping thing sometimes.

Some of the participants have been burned by involvement with hardcore fundies, and I'm happy to defer to the need for cathartic venting. But FWIW there are moments where, I too, wonder if it doesn't all boil down to the equivalent of "damn stinking arabs".

There are lots of liberal-minded (small l! small l!), rational (yes), intelligent (yes) religiously engaged and/or simply religious people out there .. and some of them are even - gasp! - Christian.

Still, some of the pictures make me laugh. And I don't need the catharsis so I'm happy enough to cede the ground to those who do. When I know it is going to make me crazy or fighty, I don't let myself click.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

This thread kind of drives me crazy in the same respect as those who think extreme muslims represent all muslims drive me crazy.

Not saying that anyone in particular participating thinks whacked out fundamentalists represent all Christians, it's just this threads very existence... and perhaps its title.

Gets me wondering - where is Deeps, anyway?

I think of it as a kind of cultural duty to deal with fundamentalists in our own culture, since we're more or less powerless (shy of military or other rude sorts of power, unless you're a well-connected theologian) to deal with others'.

Maybe I'm just "getting old", but I grow increasingly impatient with these characters as time goes by. Not like this site we have here draws many into its orbit or anything, but I think of this thread as a good place to keep mutually educated about the depths of stupidity that people can go to abuse the concept of "God" to slake their own insecurity.

No, of course fundamentalists (which is a problematic term, for historical reasons) don't represent all Christians. Those Christians, though, whom I respect don't rely on their identity as "Christians" to be, for themselves (and, imo, the rest of the world), good Christians; those people, one way or another, seem implicitly to follow the axiom of St. Francis - "Preach the Gospel - use words, if necessary." Trouble is, fundamentalists make the biggest noise, and tend to make life awful for people whom they don't (care to) understand. Fwiw, I like to think that Jesus would be at least as impatient with them.

Similarly, I've known Muslims, Hindus, Jews, etc., who are authentic people and who respect the depths of poetry within their traditions to bring real love into the world. And they are just as aware that assholes within their traditions have hijacked those traditions to (to cop Cockburn's phrase) "project their shit at the world."

[ollie]

I don't really get off on knocking fundies. It's too easy.

But as someone who flitters between atheism and agnosticism I have to think that all religions are just plain coo-coo in the end.

d_rawk, wouldn't it be more accurate to say "damn stinkin' muslims" than "damn stinkin' arabs"? Arab isn't a religion, is it?

[d_rawk]

d_rawk, wouldn't it be more accurate to say "damn stinkin' muslims" than "damn stinkin' arabs"? Arab isn't a religion, is it?

Prob'ly, but since it is the stubborn reluctance to acknowledge relevant differences inside of broad categories that I was despairing, it seems a cuter way to make the point.

[Kanada Kev]

[Deeps]

This thread kind of drives me crazy in the same respect as those who think extreme muslims represent all muslims drive me crazy.

Not saying that anyone in particular participating thinks whacked out fundamentalists represent all Christians' date=' it's just this threads very existence... and perhaps its title.[/quote']

Gets me wondering - where is Deeps, anyway?

I think of it as a kind of cultural duty to deal with fundamentalists in our own culture, since we're more or less powerless (shy of military or other rude sorts of power, unless you're a well-connected theologian) to deal with others'.

Maybe I'm just "getting old", but I grow increasingly impatient with these characters as time goes by. Not like this site we have here draws many into its orbit or anything, but I think of this thread as a good place to keep mutually educated about the depths of stupidity that people can go to abuse the concept of "God" to slake their own insecurity.

No, of course fundamentalists (which is a problematic term, for historical reasons) don't represent all Christians. Those Christians, though, whom I respect don't rely on their identity as "Christians" to be, for themselves (and, imo, the rest of the world), good Christians; those people, one way or another, seem implicitly to follow the axiom of St. Francis - "Preach the Gospel - use words, if necessary." Trouble is, fundamentalists make the biggest noise, and tend to make life awful for people whom they don't (care to) understand. Fwiw, I like to think that Jesus would be at least as impatient with them.

Similarly, I've known Muslims, Hindus, Jews, etc., who are authentic people and who respect the depths of poetry within their traditions to bring real love into the world. And they are just as aware that assholes within their traditions have hijacked those traditions to (to cop Cockburn's phrase) "project their shit at the world."

Present.

I've been on a journey of sorts that has brought me a greater appreciation for why I may have started this thread.

I am the product of an extended family that has a matriarch who spends her entire existence in the pursuit of catholic unity. She practices Vatican 1 catholicism....latin masses...you're with us or going to hell and the whole 9.

The fear infused in a woman who believes her children will be sacrificed to eternal damnation as a result of not meeting the standards set forth in the Vatican 1 view of the bible is palpable and the destruction of the family accountable in 40+ combined years of estrangement of these kids ... my Dad along with his brothers and sisters from one another and their parents directly.

I am not saying that buying into religion will do this to everybody. In fact in playing with Kae Sun I saw a shining example of a Christian who passed on the evangelical train and seems better off for his faith.

What I will postulate is that somewhere along the way my grandmother, who may suffer from undiagnosed mental illness, had her senses set to Fear by the evangelical movement.

I do not blame my grandmother for this solely, but I do hold accountable the overinflated, sexist, righteous, ostentatious, patriarchy that has consumed the voice of balance and altruism in Christianity and further I find it very hard to ignore the danger this movement poses to the weak, the innocent, and the feminine soul in us all.

I hope the clergy of the future seek their own interpretation of the good book and realize that in between the lines they read a manifesto intended to control. I wish them to have the presence of mind to extract the good and admonish the tired mistakes of the insecure men who sought to twist the Christian story instead of leaving it to the natural and true devices of myth and folklore.

[d_rawk]

Deeps .. that was an incredible post.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

^ What he said. Beautifully put.

It makes me think that what really drives people with condemning zeal is insecurity, not feeling comfortable, not being at home in themselves, and who knows where that might have come from, but you're totally right, imo, in laying guilt at the fuckers who cash in (and power alone is a kind of currency) on other people's insecurities.

Imagine if all those insecurities were put to rest. What would we have, then, to deal with? How about living in a universe of such overwhelming complexity that only the deepest metaphors could be used to remind us of how to adequately align ourselves with it - which, as you say, has been the purpose of (good) myth for millennia. Why do we seem to need to heap troubles on top of all that?

It reminds me of a conversation I had with a friend recently about S&M - it's only once you get a culture with such relative affluence that it can take care of its primary needs (like dealing with hunger and basic physical security) that people want to generate other troubles to sort through (like pushing the envelope of pleasure and security). Conservative religion has always struck me as a kind of S&M of the soul.

[Deeps]

Westboro Church Ordered to Pay 11 Million To war Vet Families

A fundamentalist church that picketed a US soldier's funeral because it believes military deaths in Iraq are punishment for American tolerance of homosexuality has been ordered to pay almost $11m compensation.

Albert Snyder, the father of Lance Corporal Matthew Snyder, who was killed in Iraq last March aged 20, sued the Westboro Baptist church claiming that the protests ruined his son's funeral.

The church, based in Kansas, routinely pickets funerals of soldiers killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, carrying signs with messages including "Thank God for dead soldiers" and "God hates fags".

Writing on a website dedicated to the late Lance Cpl Snyder, the family said: "Using innocent children to deliver their twisted message of hatred and fear, the defendants in this suit have sought to attack the memory of our departed heroes, to strip their loved ones of their dignity, and to use abuse and intimidation as a tool for preventing surviving family members from reaching closure over their loss."

Mr Snyder's lawyer, Craig Trebilcock, had urged jurors to award an amount "that says don't do this in Maryland again. Do not bring your circus of hate to Maryland again."

A Baltimore federal jury awarded Mr Snyder a total of $10.9m (£5.2m) after ruling that the group had violated the family's privacy and intentionally inflicted emotional distress.

The church's leaders reacted defiantly to the verdict, saying it was "an act in futility", and pledged to continue to picket military funerals.

The church's legal team had argued that the burial was a public event and that the protests were protected by the first amendment of the US constitution, which guarantees freedom of speech and religion.

Fred Phelps, the church's figurehead, said he was confident the verdict would be overturned on appeal.

"Oh, it will take about five minutes to get that thing reversed," he said. The assets of the church and its three leaders are less than $1 million.

Before the verdict was announced yesterday, Mr Phelps had stood outside the court holding a sign reading "God is your enemy", while his daughter, Shirley Phelps-Roper, stood on an American flag with a sign proclaiming "God hates fag enablers". Supporters sang "God hates America" to the tune of God Bless America.

The church, whose 75 members are largely composed of Mr Phelps' relatives, is regarded by some as a cult and blames natural disasters such as Hurricane Katrina and the September 11 attacks on lax morality.

Good to see these assholes can't get away with this hate mongering.

Man! People are just something else. Their ability to warp even their most warped ideas is incredible.

[Kanada Kev]

Eh-Men!

That group is utterly despicable. Talk about bastardizing the 1st Ammendment of the Constitution. Gimme a break.

How can such "god loving" people be so filled with HATE?

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

Good on the courts. Sad thing is, now Phelps' people are only going to feel like they're being made martyrs, proving to them that they are really fighting the good fight.

[ollie]

I like the theory that Phelps is practicing an extreme form of performance art. His wikipedia entry is pretty interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_phelps

[d_rawk]

Huh! Up from $3000 to $11 million (based on DEM's post from April: http://www.jambands.ca/sanctuary/showpost.php?post/434459/) That's a hefty price. Not that I feel much sympathy for those lunatics.

I just read over this entire thread, and I've got to say, it beats pretty much anything the Cavern has to offer. You are all some smart and funny folk. I'm also pretty impressed (/ relieved) with my ability to have spelled words, given how blindingly drunk I was throughout that whole period.

I wonder what that youtube video link/ad on the first page was about? Seems to be gone.