QOTD: Christmas Consumerism...

[lara]

A question on ethics:

Is it ok to buy a pair of brown leather lace up shoes for $250?

How about receive them as a gift?

What about 2 pairs of shoes at $250 each?

Where does consumerism begin and end, is what I'm wondering...

My opinion:

Buy - not cool

Receive 1 pair - Ok, but pushing it

Receive 2 pairs - No way.

Edited December 12, 2006 by Guest

[bradm]

I'd look at them first as a pair of shoes. I believe it might be worth it to pay $250 for a pair of shoes, but they'd better be of a really high quality (will last a lifetime, and will be repairable [my Grandfather used to run a shoe repair shop ]), and should be something that'll actually get used (on a regular basis). If that's the case, then go for it. If not, then the fact that they're associated with Christmas is irrelevant, and the money would be better spent on something else (like, say, a $100 pair of shoes and a $150 gift to charity).

Aloha,

Brad

[lara]

Agreed.

So in your mind $100 is reasonable for a decent pair of shoes?

[timouse]

Agreed.

So in your mind $100 is reasonable for a decent pair of shoes?

absolutely.

take care of your feet and your eyes. good shoes and decent sunglasses will mean that you can walk and see well after many other of your parts have stopped working

fwiw, niffermouse and i have been encouraging non-consumerism in our families at christmas.

check out www.heifer.org - ethical shopping!

[Davey Boy 2.0]

if the shoes were another colour i'd have a hard time struggling with it, especially 2 pairs

how many lace holes do these shoes have, coz anything less than 10 is just crass

Edited December 12, 2006 by Guest
::can't wait to see these shoes::

[SteveThe Owl]

take care of your feet and your eyes. good shoes and decent sunglasses will mean that you can walk and see well after many other of your parts have stopped working

That's a good point. But keep in mind that a really expensive pair of pumps can muck up your feet anyways and those expensive shades don't tend to be as effective as the cheap ones... then again, I only buy one pair of combat boots a year for fifty bucks and I absolutely live in them.

[bradm]

Agreed.

So in your mind $100 is reasonable for a decent pair of shoes?

I have no idea. I bought a pair of dress shoes (Bass loafers) almost 20 years ago (the day before a heavy-duty job interview back in university), and can't remember what I paid for them. I wear them about once a year, tops, so they've lasted pretty well. Generally, I wear Converse All-Star hi-tops, which I get for about $50/pair; they last maybe a year, and aren't repairable, but they're perfect for what I need a pair of shoes to be. (Edit to add: In essence, I don't shop for shoes, I buy shoes: I know exactly what I want and where to get them, so it's just a matter of going in, telling the clerk what I want, trying them on, just to be sure, paying for them, and walking out. What goes on in the rest of the shoe market is unknown to your humble scribe.)

I said $100 based on the idea that, if $250 seems out-of-line (exorbitant) for a pair of shoes (or at least exorbitant enough to make you wonder about consumerism), then there's probably an equivalent pair of shoes that would go for a lot less.

Aloha,

Brad

Edited December 12, 2006 by Guest

[lara]

I think heifer is a fantastic program.

I once spent a Christmas making charitable donations (United Way, WWF, Adopt a child) in various names as Christmas presents instead of material stuff... It wasn't appreciated. And I ended up feeling so disillutioned.

$100 for a good pair of shoes is justifiable. However, I seldom fork out more than $30 for shoes, and I pretty much survive on 1 pair of sandals for summer, 1 pair of shoes and 1 pair of boots in winter.

But what about receiving 2 pairs $250 shoes as a gift? Is it ok because its a gift?

[timouse]

I think heifer is a fantastic program.

I once spent a Christmas making charitable donations (United Way, WWF, Adopt a child) in various names as Christmas presents instead of material stuff... It wasn't appreicated. And I ended up feeling so disillutioned.

$100 for a good pair of shoes is justifiable. However, I seldom fork out more than $30 for shoes, and I pretty much survive on 1 pair of sandals for summer, 1 pair of shoes and 1 pair of boots in winter.

But what about receiving 2 pairs $250 shoes as a gift? Is it ok because its a gift?

i think that if the person that gave them to you did it with good intentions, then it's a bit excessive (imo) but okay.

as far as the chritable gift giving goes, i've stopped caring about reactions...my family has been amazing about the whole thing, seeing tsunami footage on boxing day a couple years ago was a re-defining moment for how my folks approach christmas...that moment opened them up to the idea that half the world is hungry and the other half is over provided for.

[Hux]

Is a gift really a gift if you know you're getting it?

[AD]

i don't really price out gifts given to me, and kinda think it's uncool to refuse a gift based on its value. the person who gave the gift knows how much it's worth, they're ok with giving it. so the receiver should be ok with receiving it.

just my take. everyone is different though.

[lara]

i don't really price out gifts given to me, and kinda think it's uncool to refuse a gift based on its value. the person who gave the gift knows how much it's worth, they're ok with giving it. so the receiver should be ok with receiving it.

just my take. everyone is different though.

However, so many gifts are given with the receipt attached which I take to mean, feel free to change them if you wish.

BTW - A flock of chicks through Heifer to a family in third world farming community is only $20US... Meat, eggs and they keep on giv'n!

[AD]

so then are you balking at the shoes, or at the value of the shoes?

[MarcO]

I really don't get this either. What is the ethical dilemma?

[Booche]

Is it ok to buy an electric guitar for $800?

How about receive one as a gift?

$500 for a good guitar is justifiable. However, I seldom fork out more than $300 for guitars, and I pretty much survive on 1 acoustic for summer, 1 electric and 1 keytar in winter.

[AdamH]

Good shoes are worthwhile owning. I have only two pairs of shoes and both were over $150 and both are in great shape.

If you received it as a gift and are uncomfortable with the value you could trade them in for two pairs of still very good shoes. But if you like them I would overlook the cost an know that in all likelihood you have a pair of long-lasting shoes of good quality. If they're longlasting they're less likely to end up in a landfill.

[lara]

so then are you balking at the shoes, or at the value of the shoes?

The value - 100%

I just feel that there's such a huge gap between North American wealth and miserably poverty in so many place in the world. I figure why buy/accept a $250 pair of shoes when there are families who cant afford to eat, let alone buy Christmas presents for their children. To me, that kind of excessive consumerism is disgusting.

To me accepting it because its a gift, is the same as a vegetarian eating meat because it was served to him/her.

[MarcO]

so then are you balking at the shoes' date=' or at the value of the shoes?[/quote']

The value - 100%

I just feel that there's such a huge gap between North American wealth and miserably poverty in so many place in the world. I figure why buy/accept a $250 pair of shoes when there are families who cant afford to eat, let alone buy Christmas presents for their children. To me, that kind of excessive consumerism is disgusting.

To me accepting it because its a gift, is the same as a vegetarian eating meat because it was served to him/her.

Then why accept ANY Christmas gift of any monetary value, be it $30 or $250?

[Velvet]

It's okay to pay whatever you want to pay for anything.

Consumerism begins and ends with the consumer.

[lara]

Well there has to be an area of reasonableness.

Obviously we need shoes, clothes etc. Obviously we need enjoyment, celebration.

So I figure there has to be a line, what's ok and what's not ok. $100-$150 seems to be acceptable in most people's minds for a good pair of shoes that you're going to use. But the leap to $250, or over $500 for two pairs of shoes is excessive. And seriously, what's so superior in a $300 pair of shoes as opposed to a $100 pair of shoes?

A guitar at $800+ seems fine to me. You cant get a high quality cheap guitar. Thats art, and also often a one-time or at least rare-ish buy.

[lara]

Consumerism begins and ends with the consumer.

What does that mean?

[bradm]

Consumerism begins and ends with the consumer.

No, "consumerism" begins with "consumer" and ends with "ism."

Aloha,

Brad

[Hux]

Can shoes not be art?

[LJFH]

Well there has to be an area of reasonableness.

Obviously we need shoes, clothes etc. Obviously we need enjoyment, celebration.

So I figure there has to be a line, what's ok and what's not ok. $100-$150 seems to be acceptable in most people's minds for a good pair of shoes that you're going to use. But the leap to $250, or over $500 for two pairs of shoes is excessive. And seriously, what's so superior in a $300 pair of shoes as opposed to a $100 pair of shoes?

A guitar at $800+ seems fine to me. You cant get a high quality cheap guitar. Thats art, and also often a one-time or at least rare-ish buy.

I think it would be a bit harder to explain to a "starving child" that you spent $800+ on a guitar because it's "art" as opposed to $250 for a pair of good quality shoes that are practical and that you will wear for a long time?

[MarcO]

And seriously, what's so superior in a $300 pair of shoes as opposed to a $100 pair of shoes?

Oh, so now the shoes are $300!!!

The worst that could happen is that I could spill coffee all over this $3,000 suit. Come on!...... Yeah, the guy wearing the $4,000 suit is holding the elevator for the guy who doesn't make that in four months. Come on!....... Yeah, like I'm going to take a whiz through this $5,000 suit. Come on!