Weir To Sue Wolfgang's Vault

[Cully]

I saw this on another board and thought that I would post it here...

Here we go again!

WTF is with Mr. Robert Weir? Now he wants to sue over streaming Grateful Dead shows?

Here is the exact text in the current issue of Rolling Stone (Snoop Dog on the cover 12/14/06):

"At best it's innapropriate, at worst it's illegal" adds John Scher, whose client, guitarist Bob Weir, is discussing a possible lawsuit against the site for streaming four classic Grateful Dead shows, including a twenty-three-song, nearly-three-hour 1970 Fillmore East performance. "No one should have the right to put music out that artists don't approve."

Jorma's take from the same article:

"These are important concerts - if it hadn't been for Wolfgang's Vault, I doubt we would have even known about them" says Jorma Kaukonen, former guitarist for Jefferson Airplane, who have four shows on the site. "But if in some way they're making money off this,and their not cutting all the artists in, then that's not right."

More from the article:

But at least a few artists support the site: Sam Andrews, guitarist for the late Janis Joplin's band Big Brother and the Holding Company, says he wants as many people as possible to hear his music. And Paul Crockford, manager of guitarist Mark Knopfler, has no problem with the vault streaming two Dire Straits shows. "Where is the damage?" he asks. "If he's selling the downloads, that would be different. But he's simply broadcasting them as a stream."

Come on Bobby!!!

[Hux]

Fuck yeah!! Sue their asses off Bobby!!

[Cully]

I also enjoyed this post...

Call the fuckin wambulance.

Some folks have more money then jesus and it still ain't enuff.

[hamilton]

It's funny - when I first visited the Vault there was a statement saying that roylaties would be paid to the artists any time that you chose to listen to a show, but I was just searching for it now and I can't find it.

[hamilton]

Ahhh... here it is!

Link

How do you do it? We've transferred these aging, but well-preserved, tape archives to highest-quality digital formats using the best tools available, and we have carefully catalogued everything.

The Concert Vault is fully licensed by BMI, ASCAP and SESAC, and we pay these performance rights organizations every time you listen to a concert. The license fees make their way back to the performers that made the music. One of our top priorities will always be to make sure that the artists are compensated for their performances.

[zero]

Not sure if everyone knows the story of the purchase of this lot of what was originally thought to be merchandise. Basically Clear Channel when they purchased Bill Graham Presents decided to divest themself of a warehouse full of old t-shirts, merchandise, ticket stubs etc, posters. A very prudent entrepreneur bought the whole lot in auction and then discovered the highly valuable recordings as part of the lot. Just imagine if it ended up in the hands of Clear Channel. I love that they sold it for so cheap.

There's also like Nirvana and more contemporary stuff so it has an almost inestimable value.

[timouse]

Ahhh... here it is!

Link

How do you do it? We've transferred these aging, but well-preserved, tape archives to highest-quality digital formats using the best tools available, and we have carefully catalogued everything.

The Concert Vault is fully licensed by BMI, ASCAP and SESAC, and we pay these performance rights organizations every time you listen to a concert. The license fees make their way back to the performers that made the music. One of our top priorities will always be to make sure that the artists are compensated for their performances.

so bobby is right, lots of folks are making money off of this, but he's covered already if fees are being paid. be patient, bob, the check's in the mail.

i really want to like ratdog. i do. but sometimes bob just makes me sad. his comments about archive.org just floored me.

"...there are some people, you know, the information wants to be freeeee people that don't like this. well, see ya!"

hey dumbass, the guy that writes your lyrics is the original "information wants to be free" guy!

arrgh. bob, you're breaking my heart

[Booche]

Christ basher...cough flat earth society cough....

[Hux]

Well you should have seen the cover they wanted to do.

...it wasn't a glove, believe me.

[nattyMatty]

Oh Bobino.... What are we going to do. Remember when sharing the Grateful dead was part of the Whole experience. Bobino, Bobino, Bobino.. Very disapointed For you.

[nattyMatty]

Good to see the GDP are still on patrol. Fun Wreckers

[Hartamophone]

People streaming shows off Wolfgang's Vault aren't going to put Bobby's kids through college.

Joking aside, though, I find it amusing how the industry types who most often speak up about issues such as this are the ones who wouldn't be making much dough if these tunes were sold anyway. Jorma aside, I have a hard time believing that Janis's former guitar player and Knopfler's manager have as much to gain/lose (depending on your perspective) financially from these shows as Bobby does. It's really easy to say the music should be free when people wouldn't be paying you for it anyway.

That said, I love the Vault. That Springsteen show from Winterland got me through a night of studying on Saturday.

[Baj]

if he would loose the short shorts...that prolly hug his nuts much too tight for any mans likin'...he might not be in such a god awful law suein' mood all the fing' time... ha

hows that for great anglais...

[The Chameleon]

I saw this on another board and thought that I would post it here...

Here we go again!

WTF is with Mr. Robert Weir? Now he wants to sue over streaming Grateful Dead shows?

Here is the exact text in the current issue of Rolling Stone (Snoop Dog on the cover 12/14/06):

"At best it's innapropriate, at worst it's illegal" adds John Scher, whose client, guitarist Bob Weir, is discussing a possible lawsuit against the site for streaming four classic Grateful Dead shows, including a twenty-three-song, nearly-three-hour 1970 Fillmore East performance. "No one should have the right to put music out that artists don't approve."

I think the Grateful Dead already approved this...

The Grateful Dead's Offcial policy on MP3s from GDLIVE.com

I thought this same issue was already dealt with when Live Archive went through this?

Edited December 13, 2006 by Guest

[MarcO]

I find it amusing how the industry types who most often speak up about issues such as this are the ones who wouldn't be making much dough if these tunes were sold anyway.

presumably then, those would be the artists who would need that little bit of revenue the most.

[Kanada Kev]

A recent article on this:

http://www.marinij.com/marin/ci_4865483

Musicians sue over alleged copyright infringement

Staff Report

Article Launched: 12/19/2006 12:09:23 AM PST

Marin rock stars Carlos Santana and members of the Grateful Dead joined other classic rockers in a lawsuit against the owner of a memorabilia Web site for allegedly violating their copyright and trademark rights.

The defendant in the lawsuit, filed Monday in U.S. District Court in San Francisco, is William Sagan, owner of Wolfgang's Vault, a business that sells concert memorabilia via the Internet.

Sagan, a Minnesota entrepreneur, founded the company after buying the archives of the late rock concert promoter Bill Graham in 2002. Plaintiffs include Grateful Dead Productions, Santana and members of Led Zeppelin and The Doors.

A Sagan spokesman said he had not seen the suit and declined comment.

Grateful Dead member Bob Weir said, "We have never given permission for our images and material to be used in this way."

Weir alleged that Sagan "is stealing what is most important to us - our work, our images and our music - and is profiting from the good will of our fans."

- Bay City News Service

[zero]

I'm still glad this Sagan guy owns Bill's vault not Clear Channel.

[bouche]

"No one should have the right to put music out that artists don't approve."

Bob should take a step back and ask if the audience approves of having to sit through another "One More Saturday Night". He's playing these tunes to death. How can he call himself an "ARTIST"? What in the hell has he created in the last 30 years?

11/18/2006 Mizner Park Amphitheatre, Boca Raton, FL

I: Jam > Help on the Way > Slipknot! > Minglewood Blues, She Belongs to Me, Jus' Like Mama Said > Tomorrow Never Knows > Even So > October Queen > The Deep End > She Says > Liberty

II: Lazy River Road@, Victim or the Crime@, Friend of the Devil@, St. Stephen > William Tell Bridge > The Eleven > Stuff > The Eleven > Dear Prudence > Slipknot! > Franklin's Tower, One More Saturday Night

E: U.S. Blues

[MarcO]

Help on the Way > Slipknot! > Minglewood Blues

dear god.

poor Bobby.

[The Chameleon]

"No one should have the right to put music out that artists don't approve."

Bob should take a step back and ask if the audience approves of having to sit through another "One More Saturday Night". He's playing these tunes to death. How can he call himself an "ARTIST"? What in the hell has he created in the last 30 years?

11/18/2006 Mizner Park Amphitheatre' date=' Boca Raton, FL

I: Jam > Help on the Way > Slipknot! > Minglewood Blues, She Belongs to Me, Jus' Like Mama Said > Tomorrow Never Knows > Even So > October Queen > The Deep End > She Says > Liberty

II: Lazy River Road@, Victim or the Crime@, Friend of the Devil@, St. Stephen > William Tell Bridge > The Eleven > Stuff > The Eleven > Dear Prudence > Slipknot! > Franklin's Tower, One More Saturday Night

E: U.S. Blues[/quote']

Agreed. Even in the days of the Grateful Dead "One more Sat. Night" along with "El Paso" were grossly overplayed...

but.....Ratdog's "evening moods" is a great album.

[balogna pogna]

I think the only thing we can really fault Bobby for, is that maybe he could have tried harder to keep Jerry clean. Then the Grateful Dead would still be playing and Phish wouldn't have gotten so big and Trey would have stuck to 'shrooms and weed. Trey from 10 years ago wouldn't be caught drugged and driving.

Bobby owes Trey an apology.

What are we talking about again?

[balogna pogna]

Even in the days of the Grateful Dead "One more Sat. Night" along with "El Paso" were grossly overplayed...

What's wrong with El Paso? I don't think you can overplay that song. I'm mailing Bobby a cheque for $5.00 right now based on how much money in back royalties I owe him for liking that tune all these years.

[timouse]

I think the only thing we can really fault Bobby for, is that maybe he could have tried harder to keep Jerry clean. Then the Grateful Dead would still be playing and Phish wouldn't have gotten so big and Trey would have stuck to 'shrooms and weed. Trey from 10 years ago wouldn't be caught drugged and driving.

Bobby owes Trey an apology.

What are we talking about again?

best post of the thread

[Booche]

What's wrong with El Paso?

On the way to Spac, Hux went on a tirade. "NO ONE pisses during a Bob song tonight!!!" Blah blah blah and a few beers later, we are inside the venue and the show is going on. Upon hitting the bathroom for the traditional El Piso break who was also in there?

Hux.

So as far as I am concerned nothing is wrong with El Paso.

[hamilton]

Even in the days of the Grateful Dead "One more Sat. Night" along with "El Paso" were grossly overplayed...

What's wrong with El Paso? I don't think you can overplay that song. I'm mailing Bobby a cheque for $5.00 right now based on how much money in back royalties I owe him for liking that tune all these years.

I think you'd need to mail that cheque to Marty Robbins.