Schwa. Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 Suit alleges Ticketmaster broke anti-scalping lawUpdated Mon. Feb. 9 2009 1:30 PM ETCTV.ca News StaffA $500-million class action lawsuit has been launched against Ticketmaster and related groups, claiming the ticket seller conspired to "scalp" its own tickets.The suit alleges that Ticketmaster has diverted tickets to concerts and other popular events away from its own regular website, Ticketmaster.ca, over to its ticket-brokering website TicketsNow.com. TicketsNow allows people who have tickets to exchange, trade or sell tickets at marked-up prices.Lawyers from Sutts, Strosberg in Windsor, Ont., and Branch McMaster in Vancouver say they're representing a client who allegedly paid more than $530 for two concert tickets from TicketsNow that would have cost about $130 if they had been available from Ticketmaster.The client had attempted to buy the tickets through Ticketmaster's regular website and was directed him to the higher-priced tickets on the TicketsNow website.The firms say other event-goers have been overcharged in the same way when they bought tickets from Ticketmaster.ca or TicketsNow.com since February 2007.They allege the defendants violated Ontario's "anti-scalping" laws, contending that the practice of selling tickets in the secondary market for amounts that exceed their face price violates the legislation.The law firms claim Ticketmaster Entertainment, Inc., Ticketmaster Canada Ltd., TNOW Entertainment Group, Inc., and Premium Inventory, INC. owe $500 million in damages to those who were overcharged.The firms allege that Ticketmaster deliberately limits the number of tickets that are sold at face price and then diverts tickets to TicketsNow, where they can be sold for amounts that exceed their face value."Customers have voiced concerns over the fact that tickets for the most popular events can ostensibly sell out in minutes, only to become immediately available in the secondary market at much higher prices," said Luciana Brasil of Branch McMaster, one of the lawyers representing the plaintiff."The mere fact that Ticketmaster has a financial interest in both retail and premium ticket sales leads to an obvious question about the process by which those tickets are sold to members of the public and how it works," said Jay Strosberg of Sutts Strosberg LLP, another of the lawyers representing the plaintiff.Ticketmaster has said in response to prior complaints that the company's ticket-selling system is fair and doesn't violate the law.The class action aims to represent all persons who bought tickets for an event in Ontario from Ticketmaster or through TicketsNow.com from and after February 9, 2007. More information on the suit can be found at www.ticketmasterclassaction.com.Earlier this month, Bruce Springsteen expressed anger with Ticketmaster's selling practices.He said he has heard from fans who wanted to see him play at New Jersey's Meadowlands that they received an error message on their computer screen that shut them out of the main Ticketmaster website.The potential ticket-buyers then saw an ad for Ticketmaster subsidiary TicketsNow offering tickets for hundreds of dollars more than face value.Springsteen said on his website that he and the E Street Band are "furious.""We perceive this as a pure conflict of interest," the band said.The band said it had received assurances from Ticketmaster that it will stop redirecting Springsteen fans to TicketsNow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freak By Night Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 Awesome. I hope Ticketmaster rots in hell. The band said it had received assurances from Ticketmaster that it will stop redirecting Springsteen fans to TicketsNow.Does this apply to Springsteen fans who are buying tickets to a Phish concert? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basher Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 My question is this: If TicketMaster PROVES that all tickets available on TicketsNow were sold by individuals who obtained the tickets from TicketMaster, and not by TicketMaster itself, is the case moot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schwa. Posted February 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 I think, nay, i know every person will echo your sentiment FBN. I hope this lawsuit brings this fucking company to it's knees and destroys it completely. That being said, i really and truly hope it is replaced by a kinder, gentler, far more ethical ticket dispensing company and not just another bunch of assholes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanada Kev Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 This should be fun to watch. Wonder how many people find out about it who bought tix on TicketsNow during the time period and join the class action suit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schwa. Posted February 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 My question is this: If TicketMaster PROVES that all tickets available on TicketsNow were sold by individuals who obtained the tickets from TicketMaster, and not by TicketMaster itself, is the case moot?I wonder. I guess it comes down to the wording of the lawsuit. Online scalping is online scalping regardless if Ticketmaster is the facilitator. TicketsNow should be shut down. Makes it too easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basher Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 4. The plaintiff also alleges that Ticketmaster has and continues to deliberately limit the number of tickets that are sold in the primary market at face price and instead, diverts tickets to the secondary market where they can be sold for amounts that exceed their face value.Certainly if there is any evidence of this, they are fucked. But is it possible the lawyers pulled this allegation out of thin air? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoMack Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 Often times lawyers will pull many many allegations out of thin air and include them in teh Statement of Claim.They do so because the questions asked at discovery (known as depositions in the U.S.) are framed by the Statement of Claim. If you don't allege it in the claim, you can't ask questions about it at discovery. Therefore you put many and broad allegations in the claim.I haven't read the claim here - but I'm thinking that even if all of the tickets are placed on TicketsNow by seperate entities there would still be a claim against Ticketmaster based on the possibility that they divert and/or grant special access to good seats that then end up on TicketsNow.I mean, Ticketmaster could very well have 10,000 seperate numbered companies that they give preferential access to and those 10,000 numbered companies then put the tickets on TicketsNow. Those numbered companies would be considered "individuals" in the legal sense I think... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basher Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 Okay, here are the two statements of claim in the suit:3. The plaintiff alleges that the defendants conspired to breach Ontario’s “anti-scalping†legislation.4. The plaintiff also alleges that Ticketmaster has and continues to deliberately limit the number of tickets that are sold in the primary market at face price and instead, diverts tickets to the secondary market where they can be sold for amounts that exceed their face value. So, playing lawyer for the big bad TM/TN, I would argue this.On point 3. TicketsNow is not selling tickets, only facilitating a sale between a ticket buyer and a third party.On point 4. No, TicketMaster doesn't do that.Seriously, I understand the issue of perception with TicketsNow. I understand that everyone should have fare access to tickets being sold at face value. And hey, if any of the points above are proven, TM/TN will certainly by justly punished. I just don't see that happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irie Guy Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 How can it be possible for a 3rd party to have enough information about their tickets not yet received to put that information up on Tickets Now for resale within 60 seconds of a general on sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esau. Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 I'm still wondering why more people haven't questioned or investigated the bands about this. I've read just as many speculative articles/posts/blogs that put the musicians in the same hotseat as TM. A lot with just as many valid (although not proven) reasons why the bands themselves would have an interest in this.Aside from Bruce, or some vague apologys for the incoviences some fans endured getting tickets through TM has anyone read any other opposition or statements from musicians about this recently.Personally, I'd think we'd hear more from the musicians. If not previous to, at least since a big name like Bruce spoke up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hartamophone Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 I would be surprised if TicketMaster is proven to be funneling tickets to re-sellers to be put up on TicketsNow. Delighted and vindicated, but very surprised.That said, I fail to see how their control of the primary ticket market and finger in the pie of the secondary ticket market does not constitute a conflict of interest. It is absolutely not in their best interest, as owner of TicketsNow, to ensure that tickets are distributed in a fair and equitable manner. Captcha gets hacked? That shouldn't bother them, as that would mean that secondary sellers now have handfuls of tickets, and there's a good chance that TicketMaster will get in on that action. It will be interesting to see how this plays itself out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoMack Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 (edited) Okay, here are the two statements of claim in the suit:3. The plaintiff alleges that the defendants conspired to breach Ontario’s “anti-scalping†legislation.4. The plaintiff also alleges that Ticketmaster has and continues to deliberately limit the number of tickets that are sold in the primary market at face price and instead, diverts tickets to the secondary market where they can be sold for amounts that exceed their face value. So, playing lawyer for the big bad TM/TN, I would argue this.On point 3. TicketsNow is not selling tickets, only facilitating a sale between a ticket buyer and a third party.On point 4. No, TicketMaster doesn't do that.Seriously, I understand the issue of perception with TicketsNow. I understand that everyone should have fare access to tickets being sold at face value. And hey, if any of the points above are proven, TM/TN will certainly by justly punished. I just don't see that happening.I wasn't clear. Those are the two "claims" yes, in a broad, turn it into one sentance sense. In all liklihood both "claims" are actually made up of 25+ allegations of various types in the Statement of Claim. e.g. one might be that ticketmaster knew or ought to have known that their employees are selling the best seats to themselves and putting them up on TicketsNow. Maybe they knew or ought to have known that people were hacking around the system.Ticketmaster probably can't benefit by turning a blind eye to other's breaking the law. Possible analogy being buying something that is hot that you know is hot. Its probably possession of stolen property, not a good deal (Mind you thats criminal not civil)Also Basher, I'm not 100% that I agree with you that Ticketmaster is not selling tickets on TicketsNow. They are guaranteeing the sales aren't they? And they're taking a cut. Likely the end user is paying one fee for ticket + charges etc. I think there is an argument to be made that TicketsNow is in fact selling tickets. Is Priceline selling hotels? There are similarities (and differences).Its all shades of grey. I blame Microsoft.As a disclaimer - I have no insight into anti-trust law or IP/IT or criminal or any other area of law that this deals with. Just a philisophical discussion from where I'm sitting. Edited February 9, 2009 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanada Kev Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 I'm still wondering why more people haven't questioned or investigated the bands about this. I've read just as many speculative articles/posts/blogs that put the musicians in the same hotseat as TM. A lot with just as many valid (although not proven) reasons why the bands themselves would have an interest in this.Aside from Bruce, or some vague apologys for the incoviences some fans endured getting tickets through TM has anyone read any other opposition or statements from musicians about this recently. Personally, I'd think we'd hear more from the musicians. If not previous to, at least since a big name like Bruce spoke up. I know that one of the biggest issues for artists who want to avoid TBastard is the problem with venues for their concerts. It seems that it's a practice of TBastard to actively get local venues of all sizes to sign contracts stating that they will use TBastard for ticketsales. Once TBastard has been able to secure a majority of the venues then artists are essentially forced into using them if they want to play in a specific city. TBastard ensures that they'll be making a cut off of every event possible. The more time that goes by, the more venues that are locked into contracts, therefore making competition almost impossible. They've already knocked out Ticketron and BASS Tickets in the past. Now, they're going to merge with LiveNation. Holdouts like Tickets.com will fall soon too. The only way to stop them is for the public to not buy tickets. FuCK! Kinda hard to do sometimes, but it makes me think twice before I drop the coin. Sometimes you're SOL though Fuck You TicketBastard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobL Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 I'm still wondering why more people haven't questioned or investigated the bands about this. I've read just as many speculative articles/posts/blogs that put the musicians in the same hotseat as TM. A lot with just as many valid (although not proven) reasons why the bands themselves would have an interest in this.Aside from Bruce' date=' or some vague apologys for the incoviences some fans endured getting tickets through TM has anyone read any other opposition or statements from musicians about this recently. Personally, I'd think we'd hear more from the musicians. If not previous to, at least since a big name like Bruce spoke up.[/quote'] I know that one of the biggest issues for artists who want to avoid TBastard is the problem with venues for their concerts. It seems that it's a practice of TBastard to actively get local venues of all sizes to sign contracts stating that they will use TBastard for ticketsales. Once TBastard has been able to secure a majority of the venues then artists are essentially forced into using them if they want to play in a specific city. TBastard ensures that they'll be making a cut off of every event possible. The more time that goes by, the more venues that are locked into contracts, therefore making competition almost impossible. They've already knocked out Ticketron and BASS Tickets in the past. Now, they're going to merge with LiveNation. Holdouts like Tickets.com will fall soon too. The only way to stop them is for the public to not buy tickets. FuCK! Kinda hard to do sometimes, but it makes me think twice before I drop the coin. Sometimes you're SOL though Fuck You TicketBastard! so if ticketmaster owns ticketnow, but is claiming that their are third party sellers selling these tickets. How much is ticketmaster pocketing from these vendors? have they ever said publicly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basher Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 There is an FAQ on TicketsNow that describes the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velvet Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 "They allege the defendants violated Ontario's "anti-scalping" laws, contending that the practice of selling tickets in the secondary market for amounts that exceed their face price violates the legislation."That seems pretty clearcut. Busted. As for Basher's defence that they weren't scalping but rather they are an innocent third party, well, isn't that what napster said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velvet Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 So, have any of you called the lawyers about getting in on the suit?From the link in the article:If you purchased a ticket from Ticketmaster or from TicketsNow for an event in Ontario, you may be able to participate in this action. To do so, please provide the information requested on the Communication page of this website or call one of the following lawyers: Jay Strosberg Luciana Brasil Sutts, Strosberg LLP 600-251 Goyeau Street Windsor, ON N9A 6V4 519.561.6285 (fax) 866.316.5308 jay@strosbergco.com Branch MacMaster 1410-777 Hornby Street Vancouver, BC V6Z 1S4 604.654.2960(fax) 606.684.3429lbrasil@branmac.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esau. Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 I know that one of the biggest issues for artists who want to avoid TBastard is the problem with venues for their concerts. It seems that it's a practice of TBastard to actively get local venues of all sizes to sign contracts stating that they will use TBastard for ticketsales. Once TBastard has been able to secure a majority of the venues then artists are essentially forced into using them if they want to play in a specific city. TBastard ensures that they'll be making a cut off of every event possible. The more time that goes by, the more venues that are locked into contracts, therefore making competition almost impossible. They've already knocked out Ticketron and BASS Tickets in the past. Now, they're going to merge with LiveNation. Holdouts like Tickets.com will fall soon too. The only way to stop them is for the public to not buy tickets. FuCK! Kinda hard to do sometimes, but it makes me think twice before I drop the coin. Sometimes you're SOL though Fuck You TicketBastard! Yeah, thats how it works, I understand that and see where you coming from Kev. I really have no input on which artists would participate in that sort of practice, I'd like to think none of them do. But with so many slices of an artists pie being handed out to so many different people before they get their piece, and not to mention what other losses they feel they incur due to things like illegal downloading, for example (poor CD sales etc) its easy to to think some may participate in such practices in a vain attempt to recoup any losses. I'm certianly not defending TM. I don't care for their practice one bit, but until TM is proven to be the sole guilty party, who knows. I mean if an artist of Bruce's stature and caliber is speaking up and getting results - A Govenor taking notice, TM now under investigation etc. Imagine what would happen if more artists started squakin about this shit. Just maybe some of these venues wouldn't renew contracts with TM (ones CC doesn't own anyway..lol). Perhaps it wouldn't help, I dunno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schwa. Posted February 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 I know nothing about the law and won't pretend i do.I also hate Ticketmaster.I have never bought anything from TicketsNow and never will.I want cheaper service fees when buying concert tickets.I feel good about Hood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basher Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 As for Basher's defence that they weren't scalping but rather they are an innocent third party, well, isn't that what napster said? Listen, I'm not defending anyone. I am trying to have a rational, intelligent discussion about the issue. The response from most is fuck TicketMaster, I hate them blah blah blah. That's not a rational or intelligent response.I certainly do NOT support TicketsNow. Like I said, if TicketMaster intentionally funneled tickets to TN they can absolutely rot in hell. I just think that the chance of that claim being proven is slim to none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AD Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Bob Lefsetz is on Q (CBC Radio 1) right now talking about the merger with Gomeshi and another guest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irie Guy Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 I certainly do NOT support TicketsNow. Like I said, if TicketMaster intentionally funneled tickets to TN they can absolutely rot in hell. I just think that the chance of that claim being proven is slim to none.How is it possible that tickets were not funneled in some manner to TicketsNow. How would TicketsNow have legitimate tickets for sale within minutes of a general on sale. How was it that TicketsNow were advertising Toronto Springsteen tickets prior to the public on sale. That's the explanations I would like to hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basher Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Someone on PT posed that question to TicketsNow. They replied stating that licensed brokers are able to replace the "advertised" seat locations with seats is a similar location, meaning they could "speculate" where the tickets they would secure would be located.Again, there seems to be some confusion here - you say TicketMaster funneling to TicketsNow. As far as I can tell, based on FAQs and such, TicketsNow is not the ticket seller. A licensed broker is selling a ticket, using the TicketsNow website to do so. And, as the licensed broker MUST be located in the United States (where in almost ALL states scalping is legal), I find it hard to believe that the Ontario Ticket Speculation Act will apply.Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velvet Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 So, playing lawyer for the big bad TM/TN, I would argue this...Listen, I'm not defending anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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