Church Talk

[Guest Low Roller]

Got this from the "first tape" thread. I thought I'd start a new thread on the subject.

Bokonon:

stood up in church one day and sang we're not gonna take it when it was time to sing the hymns. my catholic dad divorced my heathen mom shortly thereafter.

PalacePrincess:

ahahahahahahahahaha..... thanks bokonon, you just made my entire day.

when i was a kid & severely bored in church, i would imagine what would happen if michael jackson suddenly burst through the doors and started doing a whole singing & dancing routine down the aisle (c/w with backup dancers of course), to spice up the mass. my favourite part of this fantasy was imagining the expressions of shock & horror on the faces of the churchgoers.

[Guest Low Roller]

Remember those long boring masses on Sunday your parents forced you to go to while you were a kid, just to listen to some old priest ramble about how we're all sinners? I loathed church because I never understood why it was important to go to church. Once I got older I stopped going to church for the longest time.

Now I find myself going back, partly due to tradition, partly due to trying to raise my spirituality awareness and trying to understand what draws millions of people to worship every week. I'm not saying I'm a Born Again Christian, but for the first time in my life I'm actually curious about the religion in which I was brought up.

Anyone else in my shoes on this board?

[SaggyBalls]

my grandma was in the choir in the local catholic church. she was about to become a nun earlier in life and led the rest of hers like a saint. a sweet lady, Lyda Kinnear. Anyhow, i was at church with her when i was about 2 or 3. a fun little kid, i was trying to enjoy myself and when the ladies were singing their hearts out for god, there i was...

'MEET ME AT THE BUS STOP - DOWN ON THE CORNER AT THE 5 AND DIME!'

i remember also that i wasn't pushed into religion as a kid but i was always curious...the rules annoyed the fu©k out of me but there was wisdome somewhere in there.

i wound up going to my friend's parents' church. the family babysat me and they actually ran a little born again church. i loved the loving vibe but the denominational christanity got to me. the last straw was when i was told that meditation 'lets the devil in'...i thought 'how can millions of asian people be filled with the devil' - nice people but 'christianity' was lost on me. I appreciate elements of the religion and when a christian can be objective about his/her spirituality and not rely on the bible as a strict guideline on lifestyle.

kudos for all the puritanical types that have to stick to the scriptures to tell them how to live, but i could never do it. i think i've tapped into somethng much bigger.

[meggo]

man, if they had one of those baptist churches around here, like the one on blues brothers... i would be ALL over that.

my family was never big into church, although i did get "confirmed" in the anglican church, just to be on the safe side i guess!! on the whole i'm not religious in any faith, but i definitely like to learn about them. i have really enjoyed the things i've read by the dalai lama and i try to live my life with some of those values, but definitely a very very far cry from a buddhist or anything else. just a meggo

[Douglas]

I was raised Catholic, and brought to mass every Sunday morning (or Saturday evening if I wanted to sleep in on Sunday instead). Although I wasn't given the choice when I was young, I was able to skip out on mass during my mid-teens on occasion without any retribution from my mother (my dad only joined us for mass at Christmas...which was kinda strange since Easter is considered much more sacred than Christmas). When I moved out of my parents and in with my sister at 18 years old, I skipped out on church more than my father did. A couple years down the road, I was going through some trials in life and decided to take a breather and head to church. I didn't receive communion since I hadn't been to confession in, well, forever! But I did walk out of that church feeling refreshed and good. It was good to be amoungst a community of people all willing to smile at you and shake your hand. And for just 1 hour, I was able to let go of everything else going on in my life.

I went back to mass a few times here and there afterwards, and then learned how to just relax and meditate a l'le. Afterall...that's what I was really do there in the first place.

[Paan]

I was raised Catholic for a very short time, luckily I am a heathen now. My parents realized early on that I realized that the church was full of &@#$%.

During my last trip to our US Office in Grandville, MI (a heavily Dutch-Reform area), I drove by one church that had a sign out front saying 'Fear is the Key to God'... I laughed so friggn' hard... that explains organized religion perfectly.

Even if I did believe in God, I wouldn't worship it anyway... what an arrogant evil being it really is. The real human spirit and spirit of nature is so much more good an beautiful than this awful fairytale created by man.

Long live Pan!

[bouche]

One time, when I was little, in church, I sneezed a real good one and it left a HUGE LONG-ARSED SNOTTY BOOGER on the man singing in front of me. I just couldn't bother him during the service so I just kinda snuck away when the time was right.

I was raised Catholic and lived in fear of missing church. If I lied, or swore, I felt like crap until confession. I hated having to get up on Sunday's , and I still do.

The day I was 'confirmed' was the last day I had to go to church. I said 'So long Suckers!' and only occasionally went on Xmas.

Now, the only time I go is if I have to for a wedding. The only wedding I went to that wasn't at a Church was Dave and Lara's. That was a reeeeallly nice change!

[Sunshine]

where's ScottieKing for this conversation?

Scottie and I have a good church history. Baptized and Confirmed Lutheran. We use to go to Sunday School, church, and youth group.

But ask me a single thing about the bible and i haven't the faintest clue anymore. We only go to church on Christmas Eve now...it's mostly to please our mother, but the candle light service is kinda nice. We always joke that the Alter will burst to flames when we walk though the door. Actually most of the church service is us cracking jokes under our breath.

We've been lucky to have some pretty "cool upbeat Pastor's" in the past.

I'm not a big fan of the organized religion. I believe in higher spirits & spirituality, but i'm not buying into the bible.

[Velvet]

¨man, if they had one of those baptist churches around here, like the one on blues brothers... i would be ALL over that.¨

There is. It´s on Wellington Street.

Nobody in my family ever went to church or talked about God. I went independantly for about two years when I was 11-12, stopped and then jumped in with both feet when I was 16. I went to church four times a week, Pentacostal, and wanted to become a faith healer (seriously). That all ended when I was 18 and I began to look at religous people as stupid. Then I did a degree in religion and gained a bit more respect (which usual follows knowledge). Now I´m not sure what to think.

Good topic.

[bokonon]

i was baptized catholic, and that was so meaningful at six months of age.... damn that should be in purple.

catholic dad cheated on heathen mom. good values.

catholic great-grandparents disowned heathen mom when she "lived in sin" with a man in 1985. haven't talked to them since. my great-grandfather is dead. i hadn't talked to him since i was four. great-grandma's still alive, my aunt knows her. that's nice.

catholic dad is fourteen years behind on child support payments. i have a feeling the money isn't coming. he also doesn't recognize me. i see him all the time when i go to brantford, he doesn't know who i am, but i know who he is. dad is a big supporter of his church.

catholic uncle (on dad's side) beats the crap out of his wife. but he goes to church every sunday, so that's ok. (damn where's that purple?)

i learned all this before i was ten. then i got sent to catholic highschool. didn't learn about evolution, safe sex or anything else that contradicts catholic values. great education.

i had a boyfriend of two years leave me because in his church, women don't go to university, they stay home and build the family. he joined a christian cult about a year and a half after we got together. before that he grew pot and played in a (non-christian) band. i liked him a lot better when he thought he was evil.

ultra-religious people have never really been my favourite.

i've read the bible. the new testament really contradicts the old testament on almost every main point. most of it is also really poorly written, which is a sin if you ask me.

i just don't see any logical point to dogmatism. why be inflexible about something you can't prove?

i am a humanist. i do not expect any reward or punishment for things i do in this life. i am the way i am because that is what i believe is right. if you disagree, talk to me about it, let's have a discussion. don't preach at me, yell at me, threaten me with your hell, you'll just make me laugh. those things are all illogical.

[Swifty]

I was the pain in the ass kid sleeping on the pew.(sp???) I dreaded the boredom of church and was mysteriously sick on a lot of sunday mornings.

[meggo]

¨man, if they had one of those baptist churches around here, like the one on blues brothers... i would be ALL over that.¨

There is. It´s on Wellington Street.

nooooo waaaaay! i wonder if they would let me in...

[Guest Low Roller]

nooooo waaaaay! i wonder if they would let me in...

It's not a country club, it's a church. I'm sure they would have no problem if you showed up. ::

[guigsy]

im only chiming in on this thread because i saw that the thread name had changed and i wanted to confirm to myself that Beats did it. i have no good church stories. i only went a few times, and for the same reasons i think most young guys like me went: either they were forced, or for the chicks.

[SaggyBalls]

[color:"purple"] Well isn't that special!

[Kaidy Mae]

I also was raised Catholic by my mother. The fact that my father absolutely refused to go to church with us is still a soft spot...even after 35 years of marriage. I jumped ship pretty young though. The early mornings are what did it for me. Well, at first that was it...then I started to read. I have no problem with others enjoying organized religion. I just don't understand why we need to construct one more barrier in a world that already doesn't understand one another. The human desire to be both homogeneous and segregated is lost on me.

I remember reading that Jesus was originally called "Maitreya" in ancient Hebrew texts (Bokonon, maybe you can help me with this). I've also read that Jesus was one of Maitreya's deciples. Maitreya, translated, means "Lord of Love" or simply "love". THIS HAS TO BE WHAT IT'S ALL ABOUT. If you do some quick Googling, you will find that almost every religion has a founding philosophy means either "love" or "peace". My Mom tried her best to make me believe in something I couldn't get my head around; something far too complicated for a 7-year-old receiving first communion to understand. When you boil it all down, the key to religion is really one of the most basic things we are first taught: Treat people the way you would like to be treated. It's so simple. Could you imagine a world whose inhabitants treated each other with love, kindness and respect? What would happen if we truly believed in peace?

As for a higher being, I'm still not too sure about all of that. The residual Catholicism still sneaks up on me from time to time. I'm not sure if it's because I believe, or because I find myself at a point in my life where I need to. I do believe in energy. I guess this is more along the lines of Paganism. There is a duality to all things. There are no absolutes. There is energy in all things and THAT never dies. I could go on all day here. Luckily, I won't. See what happens on a wretched Tuesday morning when you're sick and dopey on meds?

I strongly recommend that anyone who has an interest in Christian criticism get into Tom Robbins books. Maybe this'll sell ya:

"Religion is not merely the opium of the masses, it's the cyanide."

[AdamH]

It's great to be one of the Chosen.

Yes, that's me. Oh, and that's the Jews you poor heathens. Anyay I was a very good Jew all the way until my Bar Mitzvah, and due to events involving a fuzzy navel and Sara Birnbaum that I dare not repeat, I stopped going although I conveniently "remember" that I am Jewish at times like Hanukkah and Passover where food and presents are involved.

Not sure I'll ever get back into it, but I have a subsccription to Heeb magazine (thanks to my devoted and Catholic girlfriend) from Christmas to test my faith. I mean Judaism isn't bad, but it demands a belief in God that I've misplaced at the moment.

http://www.heebmagazine.com/ - Beastie Boys this month

[Alexis]

ohhhhh religion. super fun topic.

My parents were dope fiends when I was a kid. I can't remember a day in my childhood where i DIDN'T see my parents spark one up. My parents split when i was 12 and my father being my mother's supplier, and with my gramma moving in with my mum and i to help her with me my mum stopped smoking the pot.

When I was 15 my mum's friend at work convinced her to go to church with her. She went off and on for a long while before she got really dedicated. I had never been to church before, ever. We never went when I was a kid, and we never really talked about it. When I was 16 she asked me to go with her on Wednesday nights to church with her. She went to a pentecostal church. I walked in, and the people speaking in tongues freaked me right the F out. within 10 minutes I started to cry. I thought my mum had taken me to a cult. The church goers thought god had touched my soul and proceeded to get flustered and tell me how important to god's plan I was. Then the nicest, prettiest, smartest girl in my english class came over to me and sat with my and hung out. Soon we split off into adult and "youth" ministries and I got to listen to some 30 year old tell me how to live my life like a good "youth".

They told me that if i danced with someone I would have sex with them. Basically telling me I couldn't control myself, like I didn't have a mind of my own. Then they told me that gay people go to hell. I thought of my best friend of 6 years having struggled through coming out earlier that year, and how people like this pastor preacher guy made him feel like he didn't belong in this world and well, I stood up, challenged his principles and he got really really mad. Don't get mad at me if I question your religion. It's just misplaced anger. if your beliefs have such a strong foundation then you should be able to explain them to me, not get flustered because i'm bringing up a point that you can't explain away.

A few weeks later my father died. Someone from my mum's church came to the funeral and told me a bunch of crap about how god was punishing me for leaving the church by taking my father from me. I practically threw her out of the funeral home.

The following year my mum got baptised in her church. 5 minutes later she was changing out of her wet clothes in the bathroom and had a heart attack. literally 5 minutes after she got the big dunk. I wasn't there. Her church friends took her to the hospital and told her how important god's plan must be for her. she had been tested so dramatically so soon after her baptism, something big must be in store for her. They've since managed to convince her she didn't have a heart attack at all despite what her doctor told her.

So a year later my gramma dies. my mum's mum. i didn't like her much for the majority of my time after I turned 12. but she was still a grand woman who lived a full life, and I respected that. My mum's pastor conducted the service in my mum's church. my gramma was anglican and never ever went to church with my mum. the pastor spoke of how people had left the church, and how it was very very important for us all to come back. he barely spoke of my gramma. she freakin survived breast cancer. she raised 2 children, survived a war, the depression, adopted one of her children, did a lot of good thinds for her community and none of it was mentioned. that really ticked me off.

now, my mum doen't talk to any of her friends she had before church. her pastor told her that she shouldn't associate with them because they would lead her off "the path". I wonder how long it will take till i'm in that category too. my mum moved to a different town (further away from everything and everyone she knows and loves) so she could be closer to her church. my mum used to be a really angry person, but when she made her peace with god she suddenly was very calm, never yelled, it was weird. And it's all fake. When the pressure's on she's right back to the loud, snappy person she was before. And she doesn't even realize all of it. to her it's "the devil". the thought of not being able to control yourself, what you're saying, is ridiculous to me.

i recently had an operation, and didn't tell my mum about it before hand. she had a lot on her plate with work and moving my great aunt into a nursing home. afterwards i told her and she was mad. she wasn't upset that i was sick and needed to have the procedure done, she was mad because i hadn't told her before hand so she and her prayer group could pray for me.

the prayer group is hilarious by the way. email alerts sent to cell phones and people dropping what they're doing to pray for whatever meaningful or meanial reason. i have spiritual beliefs, but they have more to do with energy, the earth and the fulfillment of human capability than some all knowing father figure in the sky who sends his word to us through what would be seen as a raving looney in the present day. And with some preists and a king deciding centuries ago what was and was not to be the word of god, well that throws even more doubt into the equation.

ahhh i just hate the religious right so much. they're ruining the society we live in. I'm all for being open minded and honest, not close minded and prejudicial. don't force me to live the way you want to live - if your way was so great, i'd CHOOSE to do it. sometimes i feel like a prisoner living in artificial freedom.

holy crap, if you read all that you deserve a gold star.

oh, and one more thing....does anyone else get random people telling them they're marked by god? it keeps happening to me and to be honest, it's kinda freaky. i get customers at work, people in bars, random strangers telling me that. it's happened 3 or 4 times in the last 18 months. just wondering if i'm special or if this is the new converting tactic.

[Booche]

Have YOU accepted Jesus Christ?

[Paan]

I want to start a Darwinist Jihad where we all run around labeling different species of plants and animals, putting those "Darwin" fish stickers over top of the poeple that have the "Jesus" ones, and attending gay marriage ceremonies... yeah, that'll turn some heads...

... oh yeah, and burn down churches, rape, pilliage, all that stuff too.

[TomFoolery]

There is something feeble and a little contemptible about a man who cannot face the perils of life without the help of comfortable myths. Almost inevitably, some part of him is aware that they are myths, and that he believes them only because they are comforting. But he dares not face this thought! Moreover, since he is aware, however dimly, that his opinions are not rational, he becomes furious when they are disputed.

--Bertrand Russell

[bokonon]

alexis, pentecostal sounds similar to christadelphian (brethren of christ, not sisters of course) which is the cult my highschool bf joined. i went to their youth groups and on bible thumping weekends and sunday mass with them. i understand how you feel about being the outsider in the church, and honestly, i would worry about them telling your mother to stay away from you. i don't know what advice to give but i know there is serious social control that goes on in churches, especially extremist ones.

social control is the primary purpose of the church. they tell you what to do and how to think so that you futher the aims of the church. doing anything as an individual is strongly discouraged as it is harder for people to check up on what you are doing. staying with the group is a built in and self governing policing system. if one person breaks a rule the others are there to point it out to the offender and the other memebers as well as the religious leader. i don't believe any group that tells you not to associate with "others from the outside" or don't read anything that doesn't contain "the truth" from god can honestly have your development as a person as its primary goal. it is a method of control.

kaidy, i have never seen that word before. it is possible that the version of the bible you use is different than mine and therefore we are using different lanuguages or just different translations of the same word. to figure out what the word means i would get a concordance (available at your library or good christian book stores) and see where else in the bible it was used and in what context as well as what language it comes from originally. different versions of the bible say very different things sometimes, especially when you get to strange parts like the book of revelations.

[SaggyBalls]

so it seems that there's a difference between 'energy' and 'god' as part of a personal belief system.

What's wrong with the word god? It's more than just physics to me and 'energy' is pretty vague. I believe that god is very personal, as is my 'relationship' with god - my god is everything around us - you, me, the trees, the birds, consciousness (both personal and collective)...it's all far too large for any of us to understand, but some people just happen to know...like when a spiritual idea just 'clicks' with you? you know that already. come on. God is great. Not just some spirit that tries to play puppetmaster. it's way bigger than that and we know it.

case in point: this scene. I think we're absolutely blessed to be able to have so many great people connected by our own personal passions - music and life.

it all makes me smile.

[Alexis]

Lex, i completely agree with you on the method of mass control theory. i just wonder what it'll take for people to now move past that. it's not quite as meaningful of a tool in today's society i don't think.

so what's got to happen to raise human consciousness to the point that people are actively aware of what's going on around them, and being done to them so they can disregard these belief systems and we can do some real good in the world.

the way i see it we won't have world peace until there is only 1 religion (and even then i have my doubts) or aliens come and try to take over the planet. it kills me that we seem to be regressing, with the religious right gaining ground and things like freedom of speech losing it.

[bokonon]

In Buddhism, Maitreya Buddha is the future Buddha.

Maitreya is a bodhisattva who Buddhists believe will eventually appear on earth, achieve complete enlightenment, and teach the pure dharma. Maitreya is comparable to second coming prophecies in other religions, such as the coming of Kalki, the final avatar of Vishnu, in Hinduism, the return of Jesus in Christianity, or of Saoshyant in Zoroastrianism.

Maitreya is typically depicted sitting on an altar with both feet on the ground, indicating that he has not yet completed ascending his throne.

i found this on http://en.wikipedia.org

Who is Maitreya?

He has been expected for generations by all of the major religions. Christians know him as the Christ, and expect his imminent return. Jews await him as the Messiah; Hindus look for the coming of Krishna; Buddhists expect him as Maitreya Buddha; and Muslims anticipate the Imam Mahdi or Messiah.

MaitreyaAlthough the names are different, many believe that they all refer to the same individual: the World Teacher, whose personal name is Maitreya (pronounced my-tray-ah).

this is from http://www.shareintl.org/maitreya/Ma_main.htm

from what i can understand after briefly glancing through some websites is that this was orignally a buddhist concept that has been adopted here in the west as a christian one as well, mostly among newer religions. maybe when i am farther along in my reference work course i will be able to better track the etymology. i just started intro to reference work this semester so i don't know anything yet.