Stronach Joins Liberals

[Deeps]

Hey Meg...

What about the dolphins?

....kidding...gotta go home...fun day in jam band land....see you tomorrow.

Deeps

[hamilton]

The day that the NDP got into bed with the Liberals tells me that these jack-asses don't even believe in the system of representation we've got set up and don't understand that integrity needs to be maintained over all-else and can only be preserved through due-process and accurate representation in the house of commons not chronyism and fear of change.

Seriously though .... my hope would be that the outcome of this would result in another minorty Liberal government with a bigger share in the way of the NDP overall and that the business and humanitarian ideals that I posess would be facilitated by a now more financially dilligent Liberal party with a little less power and an NDP with a larger voice.

So... which one is it? First, you're complaining that the Liberals are colluding with the NDP to get the budget passed, and then you're saying that you hope the Liberals win another minority and that the NDP have more clout to influence the Liberals in getting bills passed.

[ggrtrhhrtgg]

wow... interesting thread... First of all, I for one am elated that Stronach crossed the floor... I guess many people will see this as a move that will progress her status in party politics, but, I personally give her the benefit of the doubt, I think the Conservatives are playing a high risk hand, and the direction of our country is at stake... I am sure she was well aware of the scrutiny that was sure to follow..

also, Deeps mentioned that she is just Daddy's little girl, well, everyone is entitled to an opinion, but, I think you should do so more research into her background before criticizing her person. Sure, she comes from an unbelievably wealthy background, but, she just left the Conservative party, and I think that would suggest that there is more to her than just $$$$ and ambition...

Also, I think you might want to look into the Gomery scandal a little deeper, I think you are a little too general with whom you are holding accountable.... Like Hux mentioned, generalizing that all the Liberals in the House and Senate are responsible is not accurate

And as far as daycare goes, I think you once again are generalizing who actually gets assistance from our social programs... I am not arguing that there are some individuals that do take advantage of the system, but they are a minority...

I would agree that taxes do suck--but what is the alternative?? I am not really into Darwinism, and I for one don't mind driving a Honda instead of a Caddy and having my conscience cleared that the citizens of this country are provided with assistance and basic needs that can assist them in providing a humble/comfortable life for their children...

Anyways, nothing like a good political debate, and I admire your honesty in your opinions....

[Deeps]

Hamilton,

Realistically hoping that the NDP would entire take the leadership of this country would be a pipe dream....so failing that I ask for the the more powerful NDP with a Liberal leadership.

I still stand pat that they didn't absolutely have to get in bed with the Liberals to achieve this. I feel that the NDP is not coming off as a strong independant party to the public and instead are seen as just a kid in this game. I do like that they are somewhat getting their say in the budget, but it's just the speed at which they attempted to do this. It seems to me that Martin called and they said yes yes yes OK how can we help you...didn't come off as very strong.

Deeps

[Freak By Night]

Nothing new to add to the discussion at this time, but I'd like to say 3 cheers for Deeps, Hux, StoneMtn, and everyone else for making it interesting and reflecting the diversity of viewpoints, and the respect, that exists in the jamband community. Now back to discussing the soap opera that is Canadian parliament!

[Deeps]

wow... interesting thread...

She just left the Conservative party, and I think that would suggest that there is more to her than just $$$$ and ambition...

Maybe .... but ineptitude seems to be a serious ingredient too.

Also, I think you might want to look into the Gomery scandal a little deeper, I think you are a little too general with whom you are holding accountable.... Like Hux mentioned, generalizing that all the Liberals in the House and Senate are responsible is not accurate

Why didn't we vote when the inquiry was complete rather than force a vote? Having the full story from this inquiry would have been nice for my vote. Maybe I would have voted Liberal, but it seems that at this point our former Prime Minister may be implicated and that does not spek well for any Liberal party members. Also being able to implement Justice Gomery's suggestions @ the beggining of the new government's term would have been nice, rather than the ad hoc implementation that now seems to be on the horizon.

And as far as daycare goes, I think you once again are generalizing who actually gets assistance from our social programs... I am not arguing that there are some individuals that do take advantage of the system, but they are a minority...

I was quite a cynic yesterday and was talking about the negative aspects of government assistance that I saw. I understand and support assisting those who need it, but have been frustrated with what seems to be a poor use of tax revenue.

I would agree that taxes do suck--but what is the alternative??

I don't think I said that taxes suck. Misappropriation of taxes does.

[Deeps]

It seems to me that Martin called and they said yes yes yes OK how can we help you...didn't come off as very strong.

Deeps

I realize now that this was a feeling that stemmed from my interpretation of what was being done as per the newspapers. I likely need to read between the lines a little more here and find out how all of this went down.

On the same token it would have helped to hear Layton make a little bit more noise about what he was up to and why. Get the NDP role in the budget deal on the front page with some strong language and show that you're a serious voice. He was holding a lot of cards adn seemed to shyly slide them across the table rather than slap'em down and take his just desserts.

I've heard way more about individual MPs who are on the fence and Stronach than I have about the third parlimentary voice.

Deeps

Edited May 18, 2005 by Guest

[TomFoolery]

Anyone catch Stronach being raked over the coals on the CBC this morning?

Can't remember which announcer it was at 8:45 (CBC says Anna Maria Tremonte but it was a guy)... He got Stronach on the phone to talk about her walk across the floor. Then he plays a speech that she gave at the liberal convention where she said "If I ran my corporation the way Paul Martin ran the finances of this country, there would be shareholder revolt" blah blah blah "Paul Martin is not fit to run this country".

So, he asks her how she is coming to terms with her move in light of this point of view. She waffled on about national unity - he says, "You're not answering the question."

I love it when politicians have their feet held to the fire that they've stoked :-)

All in all a beautiful interview.

[Guest Low Roller]

I'm assuming this is huge news in Canada. I wish I was there right now, because it seems that our politics are getting mighty interesting. Stronach has cemented her legacy by her actions. Changing hands at this crucial time in our countries politics is extremely suspect, and definitely timed to give maximum momentum to the Liberals and deliver the CPC/BQ alliance a huge blow.

Seeing as how the BQ's ultimate plan has been foiled thanks to Belinda, I applaud her actions. However her loyalty will always be in question from this point on, as will her reasons for switching sides.

She's hot too.

[MarcO]

Anyone catch Stronach being raked over the coals on the CBC this morning?

Can't remember which announcer it was at 8:45 (CBC says Anna Maria Tremonte but it was a guy)... He got Stronach on the phone to talk about her walk across the floor. Then he plays a speech that she gave at the liberal convention where she said "If I ran my corporation the way Paul Martin ran the finances of this country, there would be shareholder revolt" blah blah blah "Paul Martin is not fit to run this country".

So, he asks her how she is coming to terms with her move in light of this point of view. She waffled on about national unity - he says, "You're not answering the question."

I love it when politicians have their feet held to the fire that they've stoked :-)

All in all a beautiful interview.

Peter Mansbridge conducted a surprisingly aggressive interview with her last night on The National. She did not fare well at all.

[ggrtrhhrtgg]

wow... interesting thread...

She just left the Conservative party' date=' and I think that would suggest that there is more to her than just $$$$ and ambition...

[/quote']

Maybe .... but ineptitude seems to be a serious ingredient too.

Also, I think you might want to look into the Gomery scandal a little deeper, I think you are a little too general with whom you are holding accountable.... Like Hux mentioned, generalizing that all the Liberals in the House and Senate are responsible is not accurate

Why didn't we vote when the inquiry was complete rather than force a vote? Having the full story from this inquiry would have been nice for my vote. Maybe I would have voted Liberal, but it seems that at this point our former Prime Minister may be implicated and that does not spek well for any Liberal party members. Also being able to implement Justice Gomery's suggestions @ the beggining of the new government's term would have been nice, rather than the ad hoc implementation that now seems to be on the horizon.

And as far as daycare goes, I think you once again are generalizing who actually gets assistance from our social programs... I am not arguing that there are some individuals that do take advantage of the system, but they are a minority...

I was quite a cynic yesterday and was talking about the negative aspects of government assistance that I saw. I understand and support assisting those who need it, but have been frustrated with what seems to be a poor use of tax revenue.

I would agree that taxes do suck--but what is the alternative??

I don't think I said that taxes suck. Misappropriation of taxes does.

ya, true, sorry, I just hear that alot, I felt you were suggesting that-- you have some interesting ideas here... To be honest, my views are a little more left of the Liberal party as well--but, even with this scandal, I trust the Liberal party, I think the reasoning behind the scandal is more noble than people think....

All I know is the possibility of a Conservative leadership in our country would lead to further cuts to social programs, and it would deeply affect our foreign policies which is what I am most concerned about... And Stronach has made that possibility all the more remote, and I thank her for that...

Anyhow, off to work, great discussion Deeps and co.

[MarcO]

"Why didn't we vote when the inquiry was complete rather than force a vote? Having the full story from this inquiry would have been nice for my vote."

um.... right, isn't this exactly what Paul Martin said he wanted to have happen, this December?

He called for the inquiry after all.

[ollie]

Peter Mansbridge conducted a surprisingly aggressive interview with her last night on The National. She did not fare well at all.

I saw that interview. I wish Mansbridge was that tough with ALL politicians. I wonder if there isn't a bit of resentment among the old boys about a young female politician making a power play.

[Pablo Sanchez]

Anyone catch Stronach being raked over the coals on the CBC this morning?

Can't remember which announcer it was at 8:45 (CBC says Anna Maria Tremonte but it was a guy)... He got Stronach on the phone to talk about her walk across the floor. Then he plays a speech that she gave at the liberal convention where she said "If I ran my corporation the way Paul Martin ran the finances of this country, there would be shareholder revolt" blah blah blah "Paul Martin is not fit to run this country".

So, he asks her how she is coming to terms with her move in light of this point of view. She waffled on about national unity - he says, "You're not answering the question."

I love it when politicians have their feet held to the fire that they've stoked :-)

All in all a beautiful interview.

I heard this interview this morning and I thought it was very poorly conducted. He was trying to be a hardass but eneded up sounding like some jerkstore from some tv tabloid.

Then when he had the two newfoundland mps on he didn't ride them at all. One of them said "I'm old fashioned and you should never switch parties unless you disagree with something as a matter of principal." and he just let that slide.

Then they said they were never teaming up with the bloc and he just let that go. I'm sorry but there is no question they are teaming with the bloc to topple the government.

All in all, I thought that interviewer sucked balls.

Anna Maria has a way of asking tough questions without sounding like a jerkstore and I've always found her relatively unbiased. I guess when someone is filling in they try extra hard to look extra good and often look extra bad.

[MarcO]

Peter Mansbridge conducted a surprisingly aggressive interview with her last night on The National. She did not fare well at all.

I saw that interview. I wish Mansbridge was that tough with ALL politicians. I wonder if there isn't a bit of resentment among the old boys about a young female politician making a power play.

Given political cultures, I think this attitude definitely exists. However, I don't think that was in play with Mansbridge's interview. I think he got aggresive because she was clearly trying to conduct her own interview and completely ignored his pointed questions. She kept talking but said virtually nothing.

[TomFoolery]

Bummer, I turned it off while he was still grilling Stronach. I'm disappointed to hear there was no consistency...

[MarcO]

and it just gets weirder.......

Tories will support 1 of 2 budget votes

[Kaidy Mae]

...she was clearly trying to conduct her own interview and completely ignored his pointed questions. She kept talking but said virtually nothing.

She's interviewing like a true politician now? Too bad I missed the interview. I've always found her to be very scripted and repetitive in the past. I was pretty excited when the shit hit the fan yesterday (if only because it would shake things up a bit), but I don't have much faith in her. I know one of her reasons for crossing over was to support funding which would aid her constituents. However, if I was a Conservative in her riding, I'd be damn pissed right now!

She's either incredibly clever and calculated, or she just shot herself in the foot. We shall see.

[Large Marge]

I wonder if there isn't a bit of resentment among the old boys about a young female politician making a power play.

Of course there is! Since this hit the Bay Street elevator news circuit, I've heard plenty of sexually-charged comments and jokes, from both women and men. I must admit though that many of the “old boys” around here seem to either have great respect, or have shown great restraint when it comes to Belinda. I guess they know better than to fuck around with a Stronach. The bottom line always takes priority, even over the hemline.

What goes on at the Cambridge Club however, I’ll never know;[color:purple] damn these boobies!

[Davey Boy 2.0]

[hamilton]

During this broadcast I also learned that they have someone working under the title of ‘Conservative Whip’ – which sounds super creepy to me…

All parties have someone with this title. The whip's job is to ensure that members of the party attend parliament and vote the way that the party leadership desires.

[Hux]

All parties have someone with this title. The whip's job is to ensure that members of the party attend parliament and vote the way that the party leadership desires.

....actually hamilton, that used to be how things were run under Chretien, strict party discipline on voting, ie. vote against your party (ie. the leaders wishes) and you`re turfed - happened several times.

When Martin took over, a main plank in his campaign was to address this problem, he called it the ``democratic deficit``, so he implemented what`s called the 3-line Whip system for Gov`t MP`s, ie.

1st line - a core Gov`t Bill, strict discipline - all Gov`t MP`s advised to vote together, ie. the Budget.

2nd line - backbench MP`s vote however they wìsh, but the Cabinet votes as one, ie. Same-sex Marriage Bill.

3rd line - free vote for all Gov`t MP`s.

While there is still a degree of discipline that can be enforced (1st line Whip) the new system did at least bring about the opportunity for MP`s to vote how they see fit, not how they are told.

Since Dec. 2003 when the Martin Gov`t took over, there have been more free votes than any time in recent history.

But, the minority parliament also has empowered MP`s a great deal.

[bouche]

curiously, what would it take for her to defect back and bring all kinds of great information with her?

[Hux]

Well, switching parties is generally something that can only be done once....when you bail on your party to join the ``enemy`` - you burn a few bridges. Actually, you burn them all pretty much, as evidenced by the sexist vitriol hurled at Belinda yesterday by the usual chorus of old white Conservatives!

[MarcO]

given the latest Angus-Reid Poll , I would almost (*almost*) welcome an election at this point, even if the budget passes, so we can re-elect a Liberal government and the Tories can show Mr Harper the door. Oh boy, he'd be done!