Rebuilding Canada

[ollie]

Headlines the past couple of days have focused on Harper's "rebuilding Canada" theme? I know our country isn't perfect but how is exactly is Canada broken? I'm a little steamed at the notion that I've been living in a broken country all this time. And I am all rhetoric-ed out.

(Bonus points if your answer doesn't include the words corruption, scandal or entitlement.)

[rubberdinghy]

Yep, it was my fault, I dropped Canada, and it broke.

Harper's got the biggest tube of crazy glue and is going to try and but it back together.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

This kind of language reminds me of the way the Tories in Ontario talked after coming into power - especially the whole bit about creating a crisis in education so that it could be "fixed" (which the lunkhead minister of education at the time proceeded to do - to create all sorts of crisis, and the only things that were subsequently "fixed" were teachers - the way, that is, you would "fix" a dog).

[Rob Not Bob]

I'm just reminded of when Bush was elected the first time and Repubilcans were flapping on about "At last our long national nightmare is over" (wasn't this what was said about the end of Watergate?) ... oh yea, 8 years of peace and prosperity, glad to see the back of that ...

[bouche]

this has been eating away at me since yesterday too.

He doesn't mean 'rebuild canada' he wants to 'rebuild family values' which means bibley stuff.

Thou shalt not smoke weed, thou shalt not be happy if you're gay, thou shalt not have choices if you're a women, thou shalt get more rich if you're already rich, thou shalt get better services if you're rich....etc.

[Alexis]

how about health care? how about the criminal justice system? i'd love to see the YOA rebuilt into something that works. how about higher education? how about immigration?

our country is good and works on a basic level, perhaps higher than that, but things can certainly run better and more smoothly. nothing is perfect, there is always room for improvement.

[ollie]

I agree. It's just that "rebuilding" sounds like starting over from the ground up. Sounds a little too saviorish for my taste.

[Freak By Night]

how about health care? how about the criminal justice system? ..... how about higher education? how about immigration?

I believe Bouche answered those questions when he said "thou shalt get better services if you're rich"

Harper will fix immigration, that's for sure: "Are you white? Welcome to Canada. No? Get out!"

Edited January 25, 2006 by Guest

[Birdy]

I agree. It's just that "rebuilding" sounds like starting over from the ground up. Sounds a little too saviorish for my taste.

i'd cough this up to sensationalism. everybody needs a tag line. that and "rebuilding" offers up some sort of favourable impression towards what they're about to do.

[\/\/illy]

Harper will fix immigration, that's for sure: "Are you white? Welcome to Canada. No? Get out!"

Better be a red-neck too. I'm not sure all whites are welcome.

[Alexis]

how about health care? how about the criminal justice system? ..... how about higher education? how about immigration?

I believe Bouche answered those questions when he said "thou shalt get better services if you're rich"

Harper will fix immigration' date=' that's for sure: "Are you white? Welcome to Canada. No? Get out!" [/quote']

biggest eye roll ever

it surprises me to see a bunch of happy go lucky hippies being so god damn pesamistic

[AD]

biggest eye roll ever

it surprises me to see a bunch of happy go lucky hippies being so god damn pesamistic

i was gonna say the same thing. i think everyone's being a little irrational.

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[ollie]

I think "happy go lucky" is a coping mechanism for pessimists.

[Freak By Night]

I think I should win something for causing the "biggest eye roll ever".

[bouche]

hey harper...your caucus sucks

[Birdy]

biggest eye roll ever

it surprises me to see a bunch of happy go lucky hippies being so god damn pesamistic

i was gonna say the same thing. i think everyone's being a little irrational.

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i think irrational is an understatement.

[M.O.B.E]

(Bonus points if your answer doesn't include the words corruption, scandal or entitlement.)

How about the word [color:blue]revolution?

What ever happened to those 2 magic words [color:blue]Responsible Government?

[d_rawk]

(Bonus points if your answer doesn't include the words corruption, scandal or entitlement.)

I suspect the Conservative talking points would go something like:

vertical fiscal imbalance, a broken model of federalism that aggravates regional differences and blurs jurisdictional boundaries, an undemocratic second chamber, a crisis of unity with a Quebec referendum looming, power overly concentrated in the PMO at the expense of the autonomy of individual members of Parliament, etc..

But in folksier language.

[ggrtrhhrtgg]

ya, rebuild those old ideas... health care, are you serious?? You expect a right wing party to improve universal health care? and education?? this is not a socialist party.

irrational?? come on folks! politics is not that complicated... Right wing parties are interested in investment, not taxes, which means less tax to improve investment and less dollars for social programs which you are expecting the conservatives to give a shit about. Politics are founded on philosophies not empty promises to get votes.

Edited January 26, 2006 by Guest

[Birdy]

ya, rebuild those old ideas... health care, are you serious?? You expect a right wing party to improve universal health care? and education?? this is not a socialist party.

irrational?? come on folks! politics is not that complicated... Right wing parties are interested in investment, not taxes, which means less tax to improve investment and less dollars for social programs which you are expecting the conservatives to give a shit about. Politics are founded on philosophies not empty promises to get votes.

i'd hope someone somewhere would be about investment! look at what taxation did to post world war i germany. investment is KEY. history has taught us that lesson. a heavily taxed economy has NEVER EVER been a good thing. healthy economies invest in and monitor themselves.

as a general rule of thumb, the more left leaning, the more subpar the service, ie, communist Russia. the more right leaning, the better the service, ie, the US. if given the choice to receive health care in the US or Russia, guess where i'm goin'.

if there has been any political parties guilty of empty promises, both provincially and federally, it is the LIBERALS, not the conservatives.

[Blane]

i'd hope someone somewhere would be about investment! look at what taxation did to post world war i germany. investment is KEY. history has taught us that lesson. a heavily taxed economy has NEVER EVER been a good thing. healthy economies invest in and monitor themselves.

as a general rule of thumb, the more left leaning, the more subpar the service, ie, communist Russia. the more right leaning, the better the service, ie, the US. if given the choice to receive health care in the US or Russia, guess where i'm goin'.

if there has been any political parties guilty of empty promises, both provincially and federally, it is the LIBERALS, not the conservatives.

Um, that'd be Wrong, Wrong and Wrong for 400 Alex?

Let's start with Norway, Sweden and Finland. Shall I elaborate? Comparing a left-leaning government to communist Russia (typefied by its cold-war identity at which point it was spending massive amounts of its GDP on a rediculous arms race) is downright foolish. Women (or men) in Norway recieve 1-2 years maternity leave (paid for by high tax rates) yet they are among the most productive nations in the world. Scandinavian countries are among the only countries that actually contribute more than .7% of their GDP to foreign aid, yet they remain internationally competitive. And as for the last point shall we talk about NAFTA?

Edited January 26, 2006 by Guest

[ollie]

i'd hope someone somewhere would be about investment! look at what taxation did to post world war i germany.

You're comparing the pre-Harper Canadian economy to that of Germany's post-WWI? How about keeping this discussion within the realm of Canada? I'd think there'd been enough past Liberal governments for which to do a better comparison.

as a general rule of thumb, the more left leaning, the more subpar the service, ie, communist Russia. the more right leaning, the better the service, ie, the US. if given the choice to receive health care in the US or Russia, guess where i'm goin'.

That's a whopper of a generalization. Again, how about keeping this within the realm of Canada? Given the choice between seeking healthcare in the US and right here at home, I'm stayin' home.

[Birdy]

i'd hope someone somewhere would be about investment! look at what taxation did to post world war i germany.

[/quote=ollie]

You're comparing the pre-Harper Canadian economy to that of Germany's post-WWI? How about keeping this discussion within the realm of Canada? I'd think there'd been enough past Liberal governments for which to do a better comparison.

why should i keep it in the realm of Canada? are you saying we shouldn't take lessons from events throughout history because they might not apply to our nation' date=' which is not even two hundred years old? considering how much of the Canadian economy is truly TRULY based upon the US economy i feel like i can make the comparison. it's the absurd amount of war debt that needs to be repaid somehow and what the solution is to repay it. germany chose taxation and the rest is hit..er history. i'm afraid for the US and Canada and the world for that matter that the US will go the same route. could be absolutely devastating, and for us to turn a blind eye to proven method, in order to 'keep it within canada' is ridiculous. this shit happens. learn from it.

as a general rule of thumb, the more left leaning, the more subpar the service, ie, communist Russia. the more right leaning, the better the service, ie, the US. if given the choice to receive health care in the US or Russia, guess where i'm goin'.

"That's a whopper of a generalization. Again, how about keeping this within the realm of Canada? Given the choice between seeking healthcare in the US and right here at home, I'm stayin' home."

well ollie that choice is up to you, but i know of a number of people who cross the border to get care they need. the argument amongst most in favour of two-tier health care is that we ALREADY HAVE IT! people just drive across the border to get it. my boss had his hip replaced at the university of michigan hospital in the spring. why? cause he was on a four year waitlist to get it done here. if you want to wait, that choice is yours. if you want to keep a system that forces people to wait, that choice is yours too. my example may have been a whopper of a generalization, but there's some legitimacy to it.

[Birdy]

i'd hope someone somewhere would be about investment! look at what taxation did to post world war i germany. investment is KEY. history has taught us that lesson. a heavily taxed economy has NEVER EVER been a good thing. healthy economies invest in and monitor themselves.

as a general rule of thumb, the more left leaning, the more subpar the service, ie, communist Russia. the more right leaning, the better the service, ie, the US. if given the choice to receive health care in the US or Russia, guess where i'm goin'.

if there has been any political parties guilty of empty promises, both provincially and federally, it is the LIBERALS, not the conservatives.

Um, that'd be Wrong, Wrong and Wrong for 400 Alex?

Let's start with Norway, Sweden and Finland. Shall I elaborate? Comparing a left-leaning government to communist Russia (typefied by its cold-war identity at which point it was spending massive amounts of its GDP on a rediculous arms race) is downright foolish. Women (or men) in Norway recieve 1-2 years maternity leave (paid for by high tax rates) yet they are among the most productive nations in the world. Scandinavian countries are among the only countries that actually contribute more than .7% of their GDP to foreign aid, yet they remain internationally competitive. And as for the last point shall we talk about NAFTA?

nice jeopardy comparison.

i want to talk nafta. i want to talk the close relationship our economy has with the US economy, which is a WAR TIME economy, which is 400 billion dollars in debt. let's talk nafta.

[Blane]

my example may have been a whopper of a generalization, but there's some legitimacy to it.

See my post above about scandinavia. Just because these things can be done wrong doesn't mean they can't be done right. THat's exactly the neo-lib approach to dissuading the public from investing in these types of public works, underfund them for years 'till they're shit, then argue that it's far too expensive to get them up to par and that providing for a nation that way is impossible. Fuck that. We have a strong diversified economy, a highly skilled and educated public that is comitted to a strong social system and abundant revenue especially since we became the US's #1 supplier of oil. There's absolultely no reason that Canada can't have a strong, comprehensive public health and services system.