?!?!?!?!?!? Roger Waters ?!?!?!?!?!

[phishtaper]

hmmm, i think we may just have some wires crossed here ... in my initial reference to vocal recordings, i didnt mean to suggest that Waters was lip-sinching. I just was referring to the original voice tracks on the DSotM album (which, strangely, seemed to be coming from the back of the arena, not the front).

[MarcO]

I see. I was responding to your take on Waters' vocals being in "tip-top shape".

I meant that Waters' "live" vocals on Have a Cigar, Sheep, his parts on Time, most of Fletcher Memorial Home, Bring The Boys Back Home and the choruses of Shine on You Crazy Diamond ("you were caught in the crossfire...." & "well you wore out your welcome.....") are all pre-recorded. He merely lip-synchs them in concert, and has done for every show since this current tour started in June in Europe.

The voices from DSOTM are all considered part of the piece itself.

[Drawbar]

Very epic show. Never seen anything like that before. One for the record books that for sure. Wish I could have caught Gilmore.

[Booche]

Lip-synching is really cool if you have enough red wine and acid in your system.

[bradm]

Lip-synching is really cool if you have enough red wine and acid in your system.

When you're doing it or when you're watching it?

Aloha,

Brad

[\/\/illy]

The fussy Dark Side material — for such a landmark album, it's sounding pretty tight-assed and toothless in its old age — actually proved the least interesting component of the 2 1/2-hour show, since the predictability of the album's fixed sequence only served to draw attention to the fact one was essentially watching an officially ordained Pink Floyd cover band recreate its leader's past glories.

Much more fun was the first half, wherein Waters and the band offered likeable facsimiles of Floyd's biggest hits — "Mother," "Shine on You Crazy Diamond," "Sheep" — accompanied by some dazzling video animation, the requisite floating pig and, during "Diamond," a well-received photographic tribute to the late Syd Barrett.

I agree.

[deranger]

I see. I was responding to your take on Waters' vocals being in "tip-top shape".

I meant that Waters' "live" vocals on Have a Cigar, Sheep, his parts on Time, most of Fletcher Memorial Home, Bring The Boys Back Home and the choruses of Shine on You Crazy Diamond ("you were caught in the crossfire...." & "well you wore out your welcome.....") are all pre-recorded. He merely lip-synchs them in concert, and has done for every show since this current tour started in June in Europe.

The voices from DSOTM are all considered part of the piece itself.

Really? I'm not trying to be a dick here, but how do you know (about the lip synch)? Do you have "insider" info on this? I'm just kinda shocked not trying to defend Waters, just curious.

[Tenenbaum]

roger lip-synchs?!?

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

I'd never heard/seen him do so. I've come to prefer his voice to Gilmour's, for all the fragility and range of expression. It'd be a damn pity to hear that he was squatting on his laurels.

[edger]

I sure as hell couldn't tell that he was lip singing at the concert. Then again, I wasn't expecting that and therefore wasn't looking for it. Regardless, the overall presentation was extremely entertaining in my subtle opinion of course....

[LionLocks]

Man,One o the best shows ever! Trippy like i wouldnt of believed, man they deliverd. That was one o the best stage/screen/light shows Iv seen, just unbelievable! I havnt seen a Pink Floyd Or Waters show befor and I was a little unshure if it would really live up to the storys I herd of lore... It did, and left me Speechless. The setlist was Legendary, and The Show itself was unforgetable..I wish In the Flesh wouldnt of been there opener though. That song would o had more impact halfway into the trip. hehehe

[Freeker]

The setlist looks awesome wish i could have been there...Me and Sloth almost had tickets. damn!

I would have love to seen this part especially.

Southampton Dock

The Fletcher Memorial Home

Perfect Sense, Parts 1 and 2

Final Cut and his solo work don't get the credit they deserve sometimes.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

I would have love to seen this part especially.

Southampton Dock

The Fletcher Memorial Home

Perfect Sense, Parts 1 and 2

Final Cut and his solo work don't get the credit they deserve sometimes.

Absolutely. I'd be in heaven sitting through even just him doing Amused to Death.

[Freak By Night]

The show last night in Montreal was awesome! Totally enjoyed it, despite having possibly the worst seats ever. Same set list as Toronto.

I'm off in a couple of hours for Halifax to see the Stones! Woohoo!

[MarcO]

I see. I was responding to your take on Waters' vocals being in "tip-top shape".

I meant that Waters' "live" vocals on Have a Cigar' date=' Sheep, his parts on Time, most of Fletcher Memorial Home, Bring The Boys Back Home and the choruses of Shine on You Crazy Diamond ("you were caught in the crossfire...." & "well you wore out your welcome.....") are all pre-recorded. He merely lip-synchs them in concert, and has done for every show since this current tour started in June in Europe.

The voices from DSOTM are all considered part of the piece itself.[/quote']

Really? I'm not trying to be a dick here, but how do you know (about the lip synch)? Do you have "insider" info on this? I'm just kinda shocked not trying to defend Waters, just curious.

Live 8 really rekindled a latent love for Pink Floyd for me. I had obsessed on them during a period in high school and really got deeply into them. Around that time last year, I joined a few PF message boards, just to see what was going on in that community. There's a lot of pimple-faced virgins with no senses of humour into PF out there, I can tell you that! But I digress..... it was a unique way to watch the developments of Gilmour's tour earlier this year, and then Waters' tour, which started in Europe in June, and not without an immediate controversy:

The first night was a festival gig at the Rock in Rio festival (inexplicably now held in Portugal), which was broadcast on local television (the first set only actually), which of course was captured and up on the web within hours of its' broadcast. Almost immediately, the question was "what was up with Roger's vocals on Have a Cigar?". While those at the show came online and said that Roger *nailed* it, voice sounded great, the broadcast showed a different story: you could heear *two* Roger Waters vocals simultaneously, and out-of-synch: one a full bodied, stirring vocal - the other a hoarse whisper/shout. Then there was "The Gunner's Dream" (since dropped from the set). The broadcast clearly shows an example of Roger missing his cue, his mouth sealed shut, away from the mic, as his voice booms out over the PA. I saw these examples myself on "youtube", although I can't seen to find them today. What was going on here?

The mystery of the Portugal Have a Cigar debacle soon became clearer: while the audience only heard the vocals (taped) coming through the PA, the TV engineers had forgotten to turn off Waters' mic feed, so viewers heard both Waters' live vocals and the taped PA vocals at the same time.

As the tour progressed through Europe, those obsessive Floyd-heads began to compare vocal tracks from night to night, even going to the trouble of entering professional studios to isolate Waters' vocals from night to night for comparison. You could line up the vocals on some songs from Lisbon, Rome, Malta and London and play them simultaneously: they were exact matches. Not a phrase, a consonant, a note difference between them. That is virtually impossible for a human being to do, and if it could be done, it certainly could not be done by someone with as limited a vocal depth as Roger Waters. Whereas other parts of the show had naturally differing vocal lines.

By the time the tour hit the US in September, it had been established that Waters was using a lip-synch track on the following songs (or parts thereof):

Sheep -- Full Song

Have a Cigar -- Full Song

Time -- Full Song (except the parts not sung by Rog)

Fletcher Memorial Home -- Full Song, except for the "Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome. . . " spoken word section

Bring the Boys Back Home -- full song

Shine On -- Half of the vocals -- the portions in bold are synched

Remember when you were young, you shone like the sun.

Shine on you crazy diamond.

Now there's a look in your eyes, like black holes in the sky.

Shine on you crazy diamond.

You were caught on the crossfire of childhood and stardom,

blown on the steel breeze.

Come on you target for faraway laughter,

come on you stranger, you legend, you martyr, and shine!

You reached for the secret too soon, you cried for the moon.

Shine on you crazy diamond.

Threatened by shadows at night, and exposed in the light.

Shine on you crazy diamond.

Well you wore out your welcome with random precision,

rode on the steel breeze.

Come on you raver, you seer of visions,

come on you painter, you piper, you prisoner, and shine!

It should be noted that there is a small precedent at play here. In 1999/2000 Waters toured, performing a solo track called "Every Strangers Eyes". On that tour, he lip-synched to the bridge part of the song ("From where I stand, upon this hill....") and while that wasn't too thrilling as it became discovered at the time, it was at least only four lines from one song. The reaction this time around has been much different, and has caused quite a bit of controversy among Floyd geeks. Which I guess, I am one now.

[\/\/illy]

I thought that it wasn't that he completely lip syncs but rather that he uses backup recordings to 'boost' his voice because he just can't belt it out there like he could when he was a younger lad. He sort of sings along with a recording of himself or something like that. Isn't that the case?

[Hux]

[MarcO]

I thought that it wasn't that he completely lip syncs but rather that he uses backup recordings to 'boost' his voice because he just can't belt it out there like he could when he was a younger lad. He sort of sings along with a recording of himself or something like that. Isn't that the case?

if that was the case, wouldn't you be hearing two Roger Waters vocals during all those songs, like the TV viewers in Portugal? Which wasn't pretty, believe me. If you are singing along with a tape of yourself, but the audience cannot hear you singing along, just the tape, that constitutes lip-synching as far as I'm concerned.

I believe it is a common practice in the live music business, unfortunately. It was just shocking to hear Waters relying so heavily on it, especially since there was no real reason for him to tour, or perform songs he can't sing live anymore, other than he wanted to.

[Blaze-0]

snowy fucking white!

[Booche]

Michael: I'm like Superman and the people who work here are like the citizens of Gotham City.

Jim and Dwight: That's Batman.

Michael: Okay, fine, I'll be Aquaman. Where does he live?

Jim: The ocean.

Michael: I work with a bunch of nerds!

[The Chameleon]

I really think there sould be a moratorum on Dark Side/Wall performaces and recreations until Floyd reuintes.

I mean these landmark masterpieces have been played and performed into the ground.

So sad, that such great music can get to the point of be boring by over exposure.

My 2 cents.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

Sad too that they might feel they can't mess around with it all very much (I dunno, maybe not piss of the FM-radio-play-that-lick-just-like-on-the-album fetishists). I'd love to see Waters go on tour doing The Wall with Luther Wright ("What a fabulous barn!").

[The Chameleon]

I hear ya dr. Mouse, that's my point. If it is going to be played exactly as on the album, at this point in time, that is so predictable that I would be board to tears.

Why not play these songs, but in new arrangements, new feels.

I mean bands/artists that stay togetther a long time always do this to keep things fresh. The Grateful dead certianly did, Phish did, even the Allman from time to time.

Change it up already. Be damned the Q107 Crowd!

[phishtaper]

If it is going to be played exactly as on the album, at this point in time, that is so predictable that I would be board to tears.

not quite "bored to tears" but yes, it certainly did have an element of predictability, and washroom breaks could be planned down to the second.

one thing I'd like to point out, though, is that even if it's a live rendition of the album, it was amazingly well done. i didnt think it possible to duplicate Clare Torry's original, wailing, improv vocal on Great Gig in the Sky, but Waters' female vocalist was beyond spectacular on it.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

It wasn't in fact Clare Torry, was it? She's been on his last albums.