bradm Posted August 7, 2003 Report Share Posted August 7, 2003 This question concerns something that's been in the background of my mind for a while now. Since going Sanctuarian, I've become friends with a number of bands (and in fact now know more gigging musicians than I ever have), which led me to wonder if my friendship with the members of a affects my opinion about the band. Do I enjoy a show more, reveling in what my friends on stage are doing? Am I more forgiving because they're my friends? Is my opinion about a performance different than it would have been if I didn't know the band members? I don't think so (for example, I rarely make harsh comments about a show, regardless of whether my friends are in the band or not), but I'd like to open this up for all your opinions/experiences. Aloha, Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamH Posted August 7, 2003 Report Share Posted August 7, 2003 This one's easier than Milennium Trivial Pursuit. You are more forgiving and flexible when seeing your friends on stage, diminishing the low points and amplifying the high points because of your personal connection with the band or members. You may be doing this without knowing it, and the amount you do it will depend on the intimacy of your friendship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phishin4groove Posted August 7, 2003 Report Share Posted August 7, 2003 well I llok at it this way...Ive been to so many Phish shows over the last 10 years that I really consider all of them my friends.. And I can still be a fukin harsh critic, or ready to do a commercial for them.... I think you know what sounds good and what doesnt...Nothing can interfere with that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Musicface Posted August 7, 2003 Report Share Posted August 7, 2003 Good question Brad! As somebody in a band and who is friends with someone in bands, I see it two ways. On the one hand, I agree with ahess6488 about how you might be more forgiving of your friends' faults etc. At the same time, particularly if you're close with someone, you might find yourself being critical in ways that others wouldn't. For instance, I'm really picky about the playing of people I've played with 'cus at one time or another, I've had to be "professionally" critical of them, so I've learned to listen to their style so I can provide good feedback. Most of them can do the same for me, and hopefully it makes us all better players and better song interpreters when we share. Also, again as someone who plays and has friends in other bands, the wanting your friends to do well is balanced with that natural "friendly competition" thing - like "hey, what do you think of the new drummer in Attila's band?" "He's good, but he's not as good as OUR drummer". Again, I think this is normal and healthy, 'cus if you don't want to be at least as good as your peers doing what you do, why are you doing it? I also agree with what phishin4groove said. To some extent, I feel like the bands I've followed for a long time are like "friends". A lot of people here are going to feel that way about Phish or the Dead or whoever, 'cus they've committed a lot of time and energy in their "relationship" with these bands, so they feel they've earned the right to be critical. And again, I think that's fair. Brad, when you and I saw that Blues Traveler show together last month, I think I was probably more critical than you 'cus I've seen them like 15 times and you've seen them twice, so I've got a lot more experience from which to draw on as to whether that was a good performance, a good setlist, etc. But I think it also means you can appreciate what's happening on a different level, 'cus you have a certain familiarity to start from. I think that's what being a real fan is about, the same in lot of ways as what being a real friend is about really. The point is, love is about being honest, otherwise you're just a gushy idiot! Peace, Mr. M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bald guy in a blanket Posted August 7, 2003 Report Share Posted August 7, 2003 It's interesting to note that a lot of Phish's early success is attributed to their personal relationship with their audience. Amy (of Amy's farm fame) wrote an article (I think it was in one of the Pharmer's Almanacs)where she said for the first couple of years it felt like everyone who saw a show knew the band personally. She writes about a sort of king's court kind of feeling about the scene with veterans closest to the band and newbies on the outside. I think that actually sounds a lot like the Nero or Burt Nielson thing now. I don't know how it affects opinions of performances but I think it helps make an audience interested in seeing how it turns out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamH Posted August 7, 2003 Report Share Posted August 7, 2003 Bald guy is bang on. The extent of band friensdship is directly proportional to the amount of money spent seeing them. The court of emperor Nero is a tough one to enter, so tough for some that they choose to see other bands. The Slip are open 24/7 like Rajmah's convenience store, but it won't always be that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradm Posted August 7, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2003 quote:Originally posted by ahess6488: The court of emperor Nero is a tough one to enter, so tough for some that they choose to see other bands.Could you expand on this, please? I know that nero's music, being instrumental, may not be as (easily) approachable as the music of other bands (e.g., GTB, or The Slip) that have songs with lyrics, but aside from that, I'm not sure what you mean by "tough to enter". Aloha, Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcane Posted August 7, 2003 Report Share Posted August 7, 2003 Brad, I'm glad you don't know the members of Werbo. They deserved your vitriol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velvet Posted August 7, 2003 Report Share Posted August 7, 2003 From the other side, I'd like to take a moment to explain a personality quirk I have. Whenever I play a gig, there are inevitably friends there, and they are always kind enough to come up and say nice things to me about the show afterwards. Here's the thing: I ALWAYS think they're lying. Back when I was in Bob Loblaw, as soon as the last chord was played, the other three guys would hop off stage, grab a beer, and chill with friends. Not me, boy. I'd pack up everything I owned nice 'n slow in hopes that everybody would be complimented out or would have left by the time I got off the stage, when I'd bee-line it to the bathroom or the sound board or some other semi-secluded spot. Then I found out that people thought I was a stuck up asshole, which I may or may not be, but that ain't why I was avoiding people. So, I've been working on it...I still pack everything up before I leave the stage (though it don't take as long as it used to), but I've upgraded to the thought that most, and not all, the people are lying, but there it is. The oddest part of it all is that I always hope that people like it, and when I'm sitting by myself playing these tunes, I really suspect most people will like them. Stupid brains. Kinda relevant to this thread, non? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyRage Posted August 7, 2003 Report Share Posted August 7, 2003 There is always a difference on where you catch a band. Living in Montreal for years I found that when BNB came out or JSB or Nero, that they would be thrilled to see me and my crew, cause we were the montreal heads. It's obviously going to be harder when you are in the bands locale or home-base where they have close friends who have been there from the start and know them well. The boys in Nero, JSB and BNB have also always been very approachable and down to party a bit after the show. But I digress, as I am discussing bands who I have met through their shows (excpet BNB who were friends of a friend but they didn't know that). A good example for me of a friends band is Staggered Crossing. I have known these guys for ages and played shows with them in highschool with my old band. I don't like pop-rock all that much, but I find I look for reasons to enjoy what they do. The tightness of their set, the lyrics etc are all very good and I tell them this. they know their style is not mine, but we still have a mutual respect from years of hearing each other play, and I can see their show and still have a good time, but they will never be a band I love. Or take my best friends new band Sunriser. These guys can really rock. They write good music but they don't mic things up on stage. I still go to their shows and I still rock out to them because you have to support your friends and try to help them out. I would tell anyone on this board to see them not cause I think it is the kind of music a jamfan would like, but because they play well and I want to show my love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neroboy Posted August 7, 2003 Report Share Posted August 7, 2003 WHEEE!!! Being a friend/lover of a musician of course changes your objectivity. I often praise Dave for his fast finger work, when really I'm hoping he'll put them to work on my backside. so yes, its all about personal agendas in my case. But I know most musicians appreciate honesty. (if they ask for it) I do know that everyone is welcome to join the party- sausage or not!! and ahess, I know I may have creeped you out when I asked you to play keyboards in my kletzmer trio- but I was really extending an invite to be a part of the gang- everyone who is willing to have fun is welcome! Ok jerkwads~! back to the sausage factory!! n-boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondtube Posted August 7, 2003 Report Share Posted August 7, 2003 I Love telling Sanzwill they suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcO Posted August 8, 2003 Report Share Posted August 8, 2003 I'm not sure what you mean by "tough to enter". I think he's referring to Jay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hux Posted August 8, 2003 Report Share Posted August 8, 2003 "Do I enjoy a show more, reveling in what my friends on stage are doing? Am I more forgiving because they're my friends? Is my opinion about a performance different than it would have been if I didn't know the band members? I don't think so (for example, I rarely make harsh comments about a show, regardless of whether my friends are in the band or not), but I'd like to open this up for all your opinions/experiences." You should talk to Booche bradm, I love the guy, but our closeness allows him to drag our band through the mud, he hates us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradm Posted August 8, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2003 quote: Originally posted by Dr. Huxtable: You should talk to Booche bradm, I love the guy, but our closeness allows him to drag our band through the mud, he hates us! OK, next Dr. Huxtable gig I go to, Booche will be my Dr. Feelbad, and I'll make sure to load up on those heady surly pills. Aloha, Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamH Posted August 8, 2003 Report Share Posted August 8, 2003 My pleasure to expand. If a complete stranger caught Nero at a show, they'd eventually conclude that there was no room on the Nero train for them, since all the seats had been taken by the Jambands.ca caravan. Don't feel guilty about it, you've watched them rise and gain in popularity and you're all friends with them. Plus, they're standup guys. Oh, and Dave Lauzon likes to stroke his guitar cock on stage. This might explain the sausage party at Nero shows...homoeroticism at its finest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booche Posted August 8, 2003 Report Share Posted August 8, 2003 WHAT? This is jambands.ca? Fug me, I always thought I was coming to nero.ca! Stupid internet favorites............. Blame GentleMonkey for the sausagefest, I'm serious. He makes us all believers. As for Hux, "our closeness allows him to drag our band through the mud" That certainly didnt happen over-night either. I had to go psycho101 on his ass just to stop his whining behaviour when I trashed his band. NOW's the time to get this party started! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schwa. Posted August 8, 2003 Report Share Posted August 8, 2003 I think that once you have befriended a band you begin to become even more critical than ever before. I'm not sure why but it may have something to do with the fact that you feel comfortable simply talking with them. I'm not a musician myself so i don't want it to seem so, but i believe that a musicians biggest critic is him/herself. If you are the friend that you think you are, the musician will most likely ask you your opinion of the performance and will be expecting an answer. The answer you give will be more blunt and specific than if you were some dude who walked in off of the street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phred Posted August 8, 2003 Report Share Posted August 8, 2003 I think being a musician changes the way I hear music and bands more than being friends with bands. Although being a friend of a band may make me less critical sometimes and more critical other times, being a musician is what really makes me critical (holy run-on sentence batman). I find I judge individual musicians instinctively, but have to "work at" hearing the whole sound. Without thinking I tend to zero in on the different instruments, and have been known to miss thing because I was paying too much attention to the wrong stuff. Heaven forbid if there is a keys player in the band. I become a huge critic. Listening to everything that he/she plays and determining if I would have done it differently. Yes, I am working on this and find that by listening to the music as a whole, and only disecting ocasionally, I am a much happier fan. Phred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradm Posted August 8, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2003 I know what you're saying, Phred; my experience is similar. I sometimes wish I could "forget" that I'm a musician, and hear the music as if I were a listener only, and not a player. (For example, when I get a new record, I try to play it through at least once without picking up the guitar and playing along*, to get as close to the non-musician's experience of the record.) I'm not my being a musician makes me more critical, but it does change my perception of the music; it makes me hear things like how complex the chord changes are, quirky/hard-to-play rhythms, etc. I also often get the urge to jump on stage and start playing along. Aloha, Brad * I tried this when I bought "Live/Dead", my first GD CD. I lasted about 8 bars into "Dark Star" before breaking down, picking up, and rocking out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B & Z Posted August 8, 2003 Report Share Posted August 8, 2003 Brad, just be your cool and open self, enjoy shows because you enjoy them, even if you know the musicians (or don't) or know the chords they are playing (or don't) and don't worry about it. If it's true, you are enjoying a show. If it's not true, you are still enjoying a show. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Posted August 8, 2003 Report Share Posted August 8, 2003 When friend's are playing, I feel their joy and their pain....that's the big difference for me. Does it make it more enjoyable for me? Most of the time, yes, most definitely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcane Posted August 9, 2003 Report Share Posted August 9, 2003 When my friends are playing, I'm happy. It means that they're on stage, so they're not in the audience, stealing my beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tara Posted August 9, 2003 Report Share Posted August 9, 2003 hmmm tough one... I think I expect alot from my friends....so if they actually dig my music and me then I think I've won.... I have high expectations for bands I like.....they have to be on the ball....be fun/sound great/keep my attention/ and all in all rock the casbah.... or I get antsy, or angry think of what else I could be doing..how tierd I am...etc.. I'm tough to please....and moody as all hell.. gotta love me! For my own friends coming to see my band...I expect them to say "this kick ass" or "sweet fancy moses what was that song??!?!" or "you guys were ass tonight!" or "wha-happend?" They are at a lot of the shows, and generally (when they're not wearing there cranky pants) they have some good point, that I on stage wouldn't see. so ya...I'm not sure where I'm going with this...but you get the idea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Musicface Posted August 9, 2003 Report Share Posted August 9, 2003 quote: Originally posted by Phred: Heaven forbid if there is a keys player in the band. I become a huge critic. Listening to everything that he/she plays and determining if I would have done it differently. Oh man Phred, it's is a bit off topic but this totally reminded me of something: My wife used to play flute in high school, and by all accounts she was pretty good although she hasn't touched a flute in years (no "American Pie" jokes, please!) Anyway, a couple of years ago Alanis had a song out (from her Unplugged album I think, can't remember the title) where she played a flute solo at the end. It came on the radio in the car one day, and my wife's face just registered total disgust at the lameness of her flute-playing. I turned to her and said "now you know how I feel when she plays harmonica!" Then again, neither of us have a gorgeous 4 1/2 octave singing voice or a zillion records sold, so at the end of the day I'm thinking Ms. Morissette gets the last laugh. - M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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