bokonon Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 Monorail Cat. Back by popular demand yo! Revolution created with no paraphernalia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FOWL Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 Ya, I read that BBC article too. I have to say it doesn't impress me much. I too am skeptical of the solar winds creating more clouds theory, not supporting or decrying it, but there are a huge amount of far more compelling issues than the solar wind theory. The fact of the matter is, regardless of the specific mechanations involved, that planetary bodies across our solar system have been heating up at a similar rate to Earth, not just Mars. I even saw a GW article showing evidence that ONE planet had been cooling while admitting that everything else was warming, and said that proved the Sun had nothing to do with it. Complete bunk!The article also lies about the fact that the Earth actually HAS been cooling in the last seven years, but I suppose they are still using temperature taken in major city centers which are always warmer than rural temperatures as the UOG prof found.And failing all that, it goes on at the end to say SO WE NEED TO REDUCE CARBON EMISSIONS. I don't know how people can't take the real science (not flawed climate models, that is not science, that is playing make believe) of the ice core data and admit that life on Earth has FLOURISHED at ten degrees warmer and 11 times more CO2 concentrations than we have now. And NEVER was an out of control feedback loop created. I'm sorry but anyone who thinks an extra 3% CO2 is going to spell doom is insane. It makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FOWL Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 (edited) Absolutely. But for the people who refuse to examine any dissenting opinion claiming, "There is a scientific consensus, and any scientist who disagrees MUST be getting funding from the oil companies" is not being rational or scientific Edited April 3, 2008 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FOWL Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 I didn't see any billboards or merchandise personally, and in fact only found out about Earth Hour a day or two before it happened. But what I did find ridiculous was that they were broadcasting a live concert in support of Earth Hour on Television. Now I don't know the specifics here, but doesn't a television use WAY more energy than a house full of lightbulbs??? So turn off your lights, BUT DEAR GOD PLEASE STAY PLUGGED INTO THE PROPAGANDA MACHINE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FOWL Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 (edited) It's a complicated world out there! If you care to debate a specific point or ask a specific question I'd be happy to oblige.edit: oh, monorail cat deleted the comment. The cat merely asked if I could clarify my rants as they go all over the place. Edited April 3, 2008 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slavetothegroove Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 http://www.wwf.ca/earthhour/Check out some before and after pics from around Canada, mostly Toronto and Vancouver. Pretty neat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phishtaper Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 ... models, that is not science, that is playing make believe ...without "make believe models", you would not have cancer treatment, traffic lights, trips to the moon, oreo cookies, cellphones, microwave ovens, frost resistant corn, or even omega-3 enriched eggs. statistical modelling is a core element of scientific research today. it's not make believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaimoe Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 I'm wondering where Fowl stands on over-population and urban sprawl? I don't think both of these problems were ever an issue in Earth's past... and they are only getting worse and more destructive, unless of course you can dig up a couple of "credible" scientists to prove that this is wrong too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaimoe Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 What's the motivation for environmental scientists to lie about global warming? Scientists that argue against global warming have a lot to gain from lying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badams Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 I'm wondering where Fowl stands on over-population and urban sprawl? I don't think both of these problems were ever an issue in Earth's past... and they are only getting worse and more destructive, unless of course you can dig up a couple of "credible" scientists to prove that this is wrong too. The Egyptians ruined Egypt lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schwa. Posted April 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 It's a complicated world out there! If you care to debate a specific point or ask a specific question I'd be happy to oblige.edit: oh, monorail cat deleted the comment. The cat merely asked if I could clarify my rants as they go all over the place.thought it over for 3 seconds and it didn't seem entirely fair so i removed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FOWL Posted April 4, 2008 Report Share Posted April 4, 2008 It seemed like a fair comment to me mono.In terms of overpopulation, for Canadians to talk about too many humans is totally absurd. It seems to be a fact that as a nation industrialises, the birth rate levels out and even drops to below replacement levels. Whether this would happen every where in the reason, and exactly why this is is certainly debatable. I think for starters, if we axed the private global banking system that has our nation, and ESPECIALLY third world nations enslaved to compounding interest, sucking all their resources and wealth out, perhaps we would see a drastic reduction in population growth. Even failing that, there is a hell of a lot of unused land out there. Don't believe me? Spend a day on Google Earth and come back and tell me there's no room for expansion. Now I agree that changes do need to be made in humans wastefullness and destructive nature, but it is my belief that the Earth can sustain many more humans. And if the dip in global temperature we've experience the past few years reverses and we get back on track with global warming, the fact is we will be able to support even more plant and therefore animal life on the planet. Not to mention the amount of protein there is in insect life which the west is not exploiting. SO no, I don't feel population growth is a problem. ESPECIALLY not in Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FOWL Posted April 4, 2008 Report Share Posted April 4, 2008 Jaimo, the motivation for climatologists is, if they want to be published, they pretty much have to support the mainstream view. And the political climate controlling that is, "this is a way more effective vehicle for controlling society than the phony terrorism scare ever was." Children are being innundated with the world is ending paranoia, (as had already begun when I was in school, and I bought into hook line and sinker) so that virtually any law will be passed to cheers in the future as it will be better than the extinction of our species and all life on Earth. An hour voluntary lights out is just slow incremental training for the government shutting down all residential power whenever it feels like it. Or whatever they choose. Can't you see? A tax on Carbon Dioxide is a tax on life itself. That is the goal, total return to serfdom. If you think this sounds nuts. JUST READ what the environmental think tanks and population control groups publish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FOWL Posted April 4, 2008 Report Share Posted April 4, 2008 Good point Phish taper. My statement was oversimplified. Obviously there is a place for computer models in science, but when it comes to something as massive, complex, and untestable in the real world as the Earth's climate, no one model can possibly be sufficiently accurate. Our collective understanding of the Earth's weather patterns are still lacking, there will always be minutiae (or even huge undiscovered factors) which we are unaware of making the models unreliable. These same computer models cannot accurately predict the weather more than a week in advance, so how are we supposed to trust decade long predictions!? Certainly not more than what the ice core samples tell us about Earth's climatological history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blane Posted April 4, 2008 Report Share Posted April 4, 2008 I totally don't want to get involved in this debate (those who know me know my positions), but FOWL, what is your background on this issue? Some of your statements on this page (eg. publications from climatologists must support mainstream views, carbon tax is a tax on life, GCM is based upon the same modelling as weather forecasts) are utterly false and off-base, so I'm curious. I work with climate scientists (including IPCC authors) every day and can tell you that their candid views are vastly different from yours. Just curious what you're basing your statements on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms Zimmy Posted April 4, 2008 Report Share Posted April 4, 2008 I've been told that we could meet kyoto if it wasn't for this. oil sands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AD Posted April 4, 2008 Report Share Posted April 4, 2008 Petrobank has a promising new technology for the oil sands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms Zimmy Posted April 4, 2008 Report Share Posted April 4, 2008 Oh, I know that they are working on it, but I find myself doubting that this is a priority. The organization that I work for is starting up an office in Alberta to help orgs like Environmental Defence fight them, but we are such little guys chasing the suits in a Birkenstock's, hard to keep up. My uncle works out there and he is pretty high up. He told me that Canada's economy depends almost completely on the oil sands, that Canada would fall apart without it, I said that without the a healthy environment, we will all die anyways, that's when my mom stopped us and said it wasn't Easter Dinner conversation I have been doing lots of reading on the oil sands, I would really like to go out there. They said that they roll up all the peat moss, dig all the oil under there then roll the peat back and no one could ever tell the difference... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phishtaper Posted April 4, 2008 Report Share Posted April 4, 2008 Petrobank i love that name. sounds like the name of an evil corporation that james bond brings down, and scores three babes along the way. it's ceo wears an eye patch and a leather trenchcoat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FOWL Posted April 4, 2008 Report Share Posted April 4, 2008 Just from my own research. I'm not claiming to have the same opinion as the IPCC authors (clearly!) and obviously the authors agree with what is posited there, but it is also fact that many scientists names were added who did not agree with the conclusions and petitioned to have their names removed. Also, dissenting climatologists do get papers published, I definately got that wrong, but the funding for research is clearly on the AGW side of the debate. In it's current incarnation, carbon taxes are in a roundabout way a tax on life as virtually everything in our society is shipped using fuel. One of the positive aspects of GW movement is that it is bringing more awareness to shopping locally which I feel is essential for a number of reasons. However, if as some groups have suggested, taxes are levied on cattle and other livestock for their "emissions" then that is entirely a tax on life. The British government even released a report last year suggesting the entire population be forced into a vegetarian diet to combat global warming. While that is a long way off, I still find that troubling.I have to say I really respect this forum and the members ability to discuss extremely controversial subjects without resorting to name calling and other petty internetism. I hate to be nationalistic and I'll, but I guess that's because it's Canadian! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schwa. Posted April 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2008 I have to say I really respect this forum and the members ability to discuss extremely controversial subjects without resorting to name calling and other petty internetism. jerk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AD Posted April 4, 2008 Report Share Posted April 4, 2008 pwned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phishtaper Posted April 4, 2008 Report Share Posted April 4, 2008 I have to say I really respect this forum and the members ability to discuss extremely controversial subjects without resorting to name calling and other petty internetism. [color:purple]try visiting the food forum. things get downright nasty there. dry rub vs. oil marinade. people lost fingers during that one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms Zimmy Posted April 4, 2008 Report Share Posted April 4, 2008 The British government even released a report last year suggesting the entire population be forced into a vegetarian diet to combat global warming. Now that's what I'm talking about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FOWL Posted April 4, 2008 Report Share Posted April 4, 2008 No way, I'm WAY too hardcore about food. Then I'd just start throwing tantrums and spreading viruses. Oh man, did I say that out loud??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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