ersh Posted October 6, 2003 Report Share Posted October 6, 2003 If you've never seen it or have always wondered about THE BAND.... Without a doubt this movie changed my life. Don't miss it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaimoe Posted October 6, 2003 Report Share Posted October 6, 2003 If you don't own the DVD, race out and buy the deluxe edition that came out this year. 5.1 Dolby Digital and in widescreen with pristine picture quality, plus a bonus all-star jam session. It doens't get any better. Enjoy the CMT commerical break version tonight, but buy that DVD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paisley Posted October 6, 2003 Report Share Posted October 6, 2003 we watched the dvd last night in torona killer!!! (seen it many times but how good can it get?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AD Posted October 6, 2003 Report Share Posted October 6, 2003 Richard Manuel = my hometown boy. Lived 2 blocks from me, is buried 5 blocks from me. Right on... AD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevO Posted October 6, 2003 Report Share Posted October 6, 2003 So did The Band always have two dudes on keys? (Garth Hudson and Richard Manuel) And why is it that there is almost no concert footage of Garth Hudson in The Last Waltz? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kung Posted October 7, 2003 Report Share Posted October 7, 2003 I don't know if there's a good answer to that question. The issue of Marty Scorcese' tactics at filming has been taken up in some of the books and the Featurette with the DVD really goes away to explaining the storyboarding and execution of the filming. A better question and one that Levon goes into at length in his book is how was their film to cover that asswad Neil Diamond and not Muddy Waters. (In)famously a pat on Levon's head by Muddy is not recorded for posterity because Marty only used one camera and killed it right after Muddy's performance. Muddy got the drift that Levon had to go to bat for him saying effectively that if that faggot Neil Diamond is going to be in it you can bet Muddy is. Watching bits and pieces last night the tension and antagonism between Levon and Robbie seemed thick enough to cut with a knife. Remember that by '76 when the Waltz was made the Band was a dead in the ground defunct unit, barely getting together and usually seperately to meet their contractual demands and put out the last few albums (Cahoots, Northern Lights Southern Cross...). Levon's theory, and mind you he's a bitter man, is that Al Grossman, Robbie and Marty Scorcese cooked up the Last Waltz to launch Robbie's solo career. Robbie as the voiceover of the Band seems fitting enough but the historian of the Band (Garth), Richard even Rick are given short thrift. Garth was apparently roused out of bed to film his part and was even less comprehensible then normal. Anyways watching last night it was interesting to see the tension with Levon and Robbie and the way that Neil Diamond's involvement is rationalized as his being a part of the Tin Pan Alley songwriting tradition (Doc Pomus etc.). Then they clip to Neil's music portion. There is no connection between Neil and The Band other than that Robbie was producing his album at the time. Lending creedence to the theory that alot of what we know and love of this movie is shameless self promotion. I think Robbie has even acknowledged some embarassment over that. His and Marty's place in San Marin in the early 70's was notorious for coking and whoring and it's that over earnest/sham/cokey vibe I always pick up off Robbie in that movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AD Posted October 7, 2003 Report Share Posted October 7, 2003 quote:Originally posted by KevO: So did The Band always have two dudes on keys? (Garth Hudson and Richard Manuel) And why is it that there is almost no concert footage of Garth Hudson in The Last Waltz? Richard played piano and some drums while Garth played organ, sax, other woodwinds, etc... I think there's little footage of Garth just cuz he sits back in the shadows and is wierd all by himself. As for the guest spots, not too many of the guests had anything to to with The Band, it's not just Neil and Robbie. What did Ringo, Clapton, Wood, the Staples etc. have to do with The Band besides being contemporaries and admirers / admirees? I think they were probably invited to play at a big party celebrating a legendary band and said "why the hell wouldn't I do this?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave-O Posted October 7, 2003 Report Share Posted October 7, 2003 I've heard many conspiracy theories about the Last Waltz (like what the heck is Robbie doing singing all the time??), but the "launching Robbie's solo career" is a bit suspect. He didn't end up releasing his solo debut until 1987, eleven years later... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hux Posted October 7, 2003 Report Share Posted October 7, 2003 Very interesting stuff kung....I've always heard about the bitterness surrounding the break-up of The Band, and the others contempt for Robbie over certain things, ie. the film, songwriting credits, etc... Who really knows....but I sense that the show/film was a big emotional exorcism for some of those guys, Robbie, Levon....there's definitely a hell of a lot of emotion in those performances, positive or negative, it sure as hell made for some smokin' performances!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ersh Posted October 7, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2003 KUNG! I knew you had to be a band fan.... wait a minute... I remember the Garth Hudson show you promoted back in Halifax... ah yesssss....we were down at the Attic that night with some hoop earing wearing fans Anyway, Levon Helm's book THIS WHEEL'S ON FIRE is an amazing read. Steve Murphy refers to it as 'the bible'. Some of my favourite parts regarding the Last Waltz... (not quoted but remembered) - when the management calls in Levon to tell him they're thinking of cutting Muddy Waters (a hero of Levon's) from the show to save time and, Levon replies with "How 'bout we cut Neil Diamond instead cause none of us know who THE FUCK HE IS!" - Levon brought Ronnie Hawkins to the premier with him. If you've seen the Last Waltz you know how many shots of Robbie there are in it... The Hawk's cracking jokes through the whole movie, and at the end stands up says to Levon and says intentionally loud "Ah, don't worry kid, it ain't that bad, if only they had a couple more shots of ROBBIE in it!" who is as you noticed 'singing his heart out into a mic that isn't even turned on' as Levon put it... Damn it! I'm putting the Last Waltz on right now! As well... if you've noticed most of the tunes are pretty chopped up in the movie. The 'Don't do it' opener/encore is like two minutes long! There's a box set (as well the album) which features the entire show with no cuts (but still studio overdubs by everyone except Levon) that is quite fantastic. More Clapton, Van, Dylan and Joni, and some rehearsal stuff from the day before. Whew... check out Richard's suit. I think that's probably why his footage in the movie was limited as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kung Posted October 8, 2003 Report Share Posted October 8, 2003 Maybe not 'launch his solo career' but self-promoting for certain. I think we could also agree that Clapton is a huge admirer as were Beatles like Harrison, the effort to have Ringo and Ron Wood likely just represents rock royalty though. The way that story wraps up is at the screening of the film Ronnie got up at the end of it and tore a strip off Marty to the effect of (in guffawing southern speech) 'don't worry Marty a couple more shots of Robbie and you would have had a real good movie on your hands'. And the Robbie singing thing is a crock, to my knowledge Robbie only actually sings on two songs one of which is To Kingdom Come and I can't think of the other offhand. Robbie's thing was writing for the triad of beautiful voices at his disposal (Rick, Richard, Levon). I think understandably the sight of Robbie's vocal chords flexing into a microphone that wasn't on was laughable to Levon and Ronnie. On the other hand though despite what anyone says the Last Waltz obviously cemented the Band's acclaim and brought them to the attention of many who wouldn't have otherwise known them - myself included. Robbie was a natural born salesman and learned long before that the money was in publishing. I see his role as not unlike that of Trey's, sure he's an egomaniac and a bit of a cock knock but none of the other guys in the band are competent enough to pump out material or guide the beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ersh Posted October 9, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 Actually the two songs Robbie sings on are "Long Black Veil" and "Out of the Blue", and they're both great songs and he does a great job. I always liked his voice and was a little confused as to why he vocally stood back so much in the band. Ah well. Oh....... he also sings lead on "Bessie Smith" with Rick doubling his voice an octave higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoMack Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 I've got to put in my two cents for my hometown guy Richard Danko... According to him: Robbie fucked them all and it was a plot for his solo career. As far as Rick is/was concerned, they all wrote all the stuff and did everything together but Robbie signed the dotted line and took the credit. He told me this to my face (my fav. story ever, he put a dozen of us up at the Sheraton with the Band and got us all backstage at the last Dead shows...). So anyways, yeah... fuck Robbie. But you gotta love the Band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoMack Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 ps. Fuck Neil Diamond too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave-O Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 On another note... I'm currently listening to The Band, 1973-08-01, Rosevelt Stadium, NJ, opening for the Dead. No clue what the source is... but it sounds SWEET! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kung Posted October 10, 2003 Report Share Posted October 10, 2003 Rick is the man no doubt about that. I can't believe that story about the Dead shows- you are my hero. Well Rick's my hero but you know. Just a few other things, I think what you're getting at is the way that most of their material was 'workshopped' over the years. Lee's example is Don't Do It which is actually released on one of the later albums but had been a staple for years. Actually his better example is Chest Fever, 'do you remember the lyrics to that song I don't I remember Garth's solo' is basically what he says. Obviously the collaborative process was key from the Basement on. But only one individual or two or three gets a writing credit. Still no matter how wanky Robbie seems I genuinely believe the other guys were too flaky to really hammer home the business side of things- just a perception. On a pretty different note something I read in another context about Rick sticks with me. I believe it was Barney Hoskins talking about the one thing he left out of his book that he debated afterwords was the pathetic image of Rick in the later days, after ballooning in weight when off smack, waddling around Woodstock in his later days. Rick's son died adding to his already substantial world weariness and I imagine he was a pretty major wreck. Professor Louie told me that Hoskins just makes things up though, not that that isn't the truth, like for instance he said Stan Szelest (the best left hand in the business Buffalo's boogie king and lyricist for Too Soon Gone off Jericho) was a drug user which he apparently wasn't. Also Louie told me that Robbie was at Rick's funeral and spoke visibly moved. He was invited to sing with an ensemble that included Levon near the end of the service and respectfully declined- I can imagine the visual. I don't imagine there was alot of hand holding between him and Lee. Why can't people see eye to eye or do the right thing when there's so much history there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ersh Posted October 10, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2003 Yup. The way Levon put it in his book was that when the records were released they weren't even aware of how the royalties would be split up until they saw it on the release. Robbie was buddies with Albert Grossman, their manager, and ended up taking a lot of credit where he shouldn't have. In the late 70's he even bought out everyone in the band of their royalties except Levon, taking advantage of them during a low time for the musicians. Levon basically says that Robbie killed Rick - Rick worked himself to death, and was struggling until the end - Robbie knew he had Rick's money in his pocket. Pretty harsh, but that's the way he feels about the situation. Ah well, the music they made in that time period was incredible. There's lots of our favourite musicians who were/are assholes. I still like their music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hux Posted October 10, 2003 Report Share Posted October 10, 2003 ...has Robbie ever gone on the record about this stuff?? Would be interesting to hear his take on it all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ersh Posted October 11, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2003 Dave-o.... how do I get my ears on that show? jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave-O Posted October 11, 2003 Report Share Posted October 11, 2003 I grabbed it some time ago from http://www.sharingthegroove.org ... no clue if it's still available though. I'll let you know if I see it again, or we can do a little swap-skis next time you're in Ottawa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budzz Posted October 12, 2003 Report Share Posted October 12, 2003 Hey man i'm sure i could find something to trade with for that show...also looking for any Legion of Mary... later daze,,MC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shainhouse Posted October 12, 2003 Report Share Posted October 12, 2003 Jeff, I can spin you a copy and bring it to Halloween if you don't have it by then. lemme know- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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