CAP on GAZA

[SaggyBalls]

The Canadian Action Party strongly condemns Israeli's aggression against the Palestinians and urges Israel to restrain their forces from a ground invasion of Palestinian territories which threatens the lives of many defenceless and helpless citizens.

Although we also condemn the launching of rockets by Hamas against the citizens of Israel, we understand that the Palestinian are essentially powerless against the war machine of the Israelis and are a people on the verge of starvation and extermination.

We do not consider that the actions of the Israeli government serve the citizens of Israel, nor do they represent the viewpoint of Jewish communities around the world.

These assaults are out of all proportion to the threats posed to Israel by Hamas, a legally elected government of a sovereign yet imprisoned peoples. A ground military operation into Gaza will neither deny nor deter the ability of Hamas to fire rockets.

We condemn also the Canadian and American political parties and leaders who express their undying loyalty to Israel, no matter what atrocities they commit while masquerading these aggressions as necessary for the security of Israel.

The air was tense as pro-Palestinian protestors of all ages gathered at Yonge and Dundas square in Toronto yesterday. Across the street stood about 200 pro-Israel demonstrators. Demonstrators brought Younge street traffic to a standstill. Similar protests are happening across the globe.

The Canadian Action Party condemns the Israeli attacks on Gaza and Hamas as disporoportionate, incendiary, and requiring a strong message from our government to take a firm stand against aggressor nations that continue this global siege of inciting terrorism in the name of fighting terrorism.

Terrorism, or the threat thereof, will never be defeated by the machinations of war, security and prosperity partnerships, or exorbitant military budgets.

It is time that Canada, and our leadership, takes a stand on world affairs, that expresses the peaceful nature the Canadian people have towards each other, and humanity. Condemnation of Israeli invasion of Gaza is warranted. Extrication of our own military forces from Afgahanistan is overdue. Refusal of our nation to partake in, support, and/or condone militarized actions against sovreign states is overdue.

Canada is a peacekeeping nation not a war mongering nation. We seem to have lost our courage, voice, stance, and independence to speak up and out as a Nation and peoples, sperate form the global community which now dictates our international voice, or lack thereof.

"War, the most malignant scourge, mans greatest sin, can no longer be tolerated and only abolished. We have reached a new era. if we cannot find some new more equitable means of settling disputes amongst nations, armageddon will be at our doorsteps...we have had our last chance."

-General Douglas MacArthur- 1945

Andrew Moulden MD, PhD

CAP Leader - 2008

www.CanadianActionparty.net

www.CanadianActionParty.ca

CAPmoulden@gmail.com

[Hal Johnson]

Its pretty infuriorating that most major news omits some of the facts, leaving the majority of the population to belive that the Palestinians are "terrorists" and that they are "cowards" for "hiding behind their children". Because, when all you report is that Hammas sent missiles into Israel, then ya, it stands to reason that they need to defend themselves and the public would naturally look at it that way.

This a very informative piece:

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v31/n01/roy_01_.html

Israel’s siege of Gaza began on 5 November, the day after an Israeli attack inside the strip, no doubt designed finally to undermine the truce between Israel and Hamas established last June. Although both sides had violated the agreement before, this incursion was on a different scale. Hamas responded by firing rockets into Israel and the violence has not abated since then.

[SaggyBalls]

Thank you, Hal!

[Hal Johnson]

Check out this gem that was printed in the comments section of the Star this morning (who are the ones spreading the hate again?):

Conflict

The situation is heart-rending and many innocent people have been wounded or killed, but looking at the pictures, many of them are clearly staged. It is unconsionable that they use children in an attempt to garner world sympathy. If they didn't hide like COWARDS,among the civilian population, there would be fewer innocent deaths. Unfortunately their desire to destroy Israel outweighs their concern for the people of Gaza, civilian deaths are of no consequence and are a tool to promote their objective, for example young suicide bombers. They are terrorists, who spread their message around the world, and poison young minds to keep the generations of hatred alive. They rejoiced in the twin towers destruction in NY.

Submitted by ADSAM at 9:14 AM Tuesday, January 06 2009

Agree 3|Disagree 1|Offensive

[phishtaper]

you know I was kinda hoping Dubya would have solved this long standing conflict ... he said he would.

i think there's plenty of "blame" to go around here. it is a rather unique conflict in that it is so highly polarized that whenever anyone suggests they might agree with this or that, they are immediately labeled anti-this or pro-that and the name calling begins and minds close.

it seems there can be no objective assessment of the conflict. emotions are way too high, and they have been for most of these people's entire lives. i cannot even imagine what it would be like to live in the region and witness the carnage day after day, year after year. pretty soon you'd become numb to the lack of humanity.

[Hal Johnson]

I dont know man, I can only take so much of "terrorists and "cowards" and "they hide behind their children."

Is this really public opinion?!? This is really acceptable as an argument?

Maybe Im just to idealistic.

[phishtaper]

no, you are not too idealistic. i think idealism is what will eventually get us out of this mess. buddy's words are just explosive, emotional hyperbole. he's charged up. don't let these comments get you down. and be thankful that buddy just has a computer and not a missile.

[Kanada Kev]

This is a tragic situation. The politics that surrounds this are going to be hard to change. Fine, people can choose sides, but what are nations supposed to do? It seems that many, including Canada, are ready to support Israel by deeming it "their right to protect themselves". However, this situation is about so much more than that. As i read recently something along the lines of 20 Israelies have been killed by Hamas rockets in the past 8 months, while over 300 can get wiped out by Israeli air strikes in just one night. In terms of retaliation (and who was the instigator in the first place) this seems only slightly out of whack. Does cutting off food, medical and fuel supplies to the Gaza strip really provide for any sort of resolution? This will only fuel a completely depressed and impoverished people even further towards agressive actions, no?

The players in this drama were different, it would illicit completely different responses from the global community.

To watch a couple of interesting videos on the region take a look at these. The first seems to be a bit more anti-Palestinian, while the second shows some of the devastation on the other side of The Wall.

Martyr TV

http://www.vbs.tv/video.php?id=1203030779

http://www.vbs.tv/video.php?id=1199152909

http://www.vbs.tv/video.php?id=1209568852

http://www.vbs.tv/video.php?id=1209604010

http://www.vbs.tv/video.php?id=1213998713

Against the Wall

http://www.vbs.tv/video.php?id=1334447365

http://www.vbs.tv/video.php?id=1334428872

http://www.vbs.tv/video.php?id=1334407386

http://www.vbs.tv/video.php?id=1334432344

http://www.vbs.tv/video.php?id=1334428875

http://www.vbs.tv/video.php?id=1336727733

[Kanada Kev]

This may be of interest to some:

DEMONSTRATE AGAINST THE ISRAELI ASSAULT ON GAZA!

LIFT THE SIEGE!

*WHEN: 11am Saturday January 10, 2009

*WHERE: Israeli Consulate, 180 Bloor St West, Toronto.

As the Israeli ground, air and sea assault continues on the civilian population of Gaza – we need to continue mobilizing against these war crimes.

At least 540 Palestinians have been killed and thousands injured in the single largest massacre in Gaza since Israel illegally occupied the area in 1967.

These latest war crimes occur in the context of official Canadian complicity with Israel's illegal siege, bombardment and starvation of the civilian population in Gaza. We must denounce this on-going support - including the intensification of bilateral military, political and economic links between Canada and Israel. Palestinian civil society continues to urge solidarity in the form of a boycott, divestment and sanctions campaign until Israel complies with international law. This is the time for people of conscience to take up this call from Palestine.

Last Saturday, over 10,000 people rallied in Toronto in the largest Palestine solidarity demonstration in decades. This coming Saturday, millions of people across the globe will return to the streets in internationally coordinated demonstrations against the Israeli onslaught.

Join us this Saturday to demand that the Canadian government call for an immediate halt to Israel's attacks and an end to the siege of Gaza!

CONTACT:

Palestine House

info@palestinehouse.com

Demonstration Organized By:

Palestine House

Canadian Arab Federation

Coalition Against Israeli Apartheid

Canadian Union of Public Employee (Ontario)

Canadian Union of Postal Workers

Steel Workers – Toronto Area Council

Canadian Peace Alliance

Toronto Coalition to Stop the War

Not in Our Name – Jewish Voices Opposing Zionism

International Jewish Anti-Zionist Network Toronto

Indpendent Jewish Voices

Yosher – Jewish Social Justice Network

Women In Solidarity with Palestine

Muslim Unity

Educators for Peace and Justice

Canadians for Justice and Peace in the Middle East

Near East Cultural and Educational Foundation

Canadian Forum for Justice and Peace in Sri Lanka

Muslim Association of Hamilton

Canadian Druze Society

Canadian Syrian Cultural Club

Al Huda

Canadian Shia Muslims Organization

Worker to Worker Canada Cuba Solidarity Network

Somali Canadian Diaspora Alliance

Science for Peace

Bayan – Canada

Bengali Student Association

McMaster Muslims for Peace and Justice

Arab Students Association at Ryerson University

Please send further organizational endorsements to: info@palestinehouse.com

[phishtaper]

where do we go to protest the idiocy of both sides?

[Big Wooly Mammoth]

the above press release is pure propaganda. that piece and the other comments above speak to the posters' total ignorance of the issue(s) in Gaza. Are Palsetinians terrorists? No, they are not. However, Hama is a terrorist organization. And onw of their sole purpoeses of existence is to wipe Israel off the map. They hide their munitions in mosques and hide amongst civilians. Something that I read a few days ago really sums it up is that for Hamas, the only think better than a dead Israeli is a dead Palestinian.

Do you think that the rest of Arab world is on the side of the Palestinians? They have been political pawns for years. They don't want the Palestinian problem solved. Why are there still refugee camps 60 years after the War of Independence, even in Gaza? Israel is not going away. After 1948 did the Arab world give the Palestinians their own nation? Certainly not. After the 1967 war, Jordan and Egypt gladly ceded all rights to Gaza and the West Bank so that these territories would be Israel's problem to deal with.

Some of you might want to read up on your history and learn some of the FACTS of the situation, rather than relying on anti-semiti and anti-Israeli propaganda. If you're gonna make some sort of stand, at least be educated about the situation.

It is a shame that people are dying - unfortunately that is what Hamas wants. When they and the other terrorsist Palestinian groups (note that this does not include ALL Palestinians) start loving their own children more than they hate Israelis peace will be possible. (Do you have any idea about what Palestinians are taught in their history books about Jews? Of course they hate jews.)

Palestinians have been oppressed for decades. with no hope, they turn to terrorism and hate. they have nothing to lose. and you can't blame them. they grow up living hopeless, terrible lives with limited opportunities.

(and the comments in the Toronto Star are absolute ignorant anti-semitic bullshit. it's a shame that people here would fall for that.)

here's a good article on the situation:

What is the UN waiting for? Deploy a strong force to Gaza

LEWIS MACKENZIE

From Tuesday's Globe and Mail

January 6, 2009 at 12:00 AM EST

I first served in the Gaza Strip in 1963, seven years after Lester Pearson's diplomatic stick-handling led to the creation of the United Nations Emergency Force, the UN's first peacekeeping force. I served there for two years, living with more than 1,000 other Canadian soldiers in Camp Rafah, just inside Gaza. I returned to the region eight years later, this time to Cairo and Ismailia as part of Canadian support for UN ceasefire protocols after the 1973 Yom Kippur War. I have returned to the region many times during the past decade.

In my opinion, the Israeli-Hamas conflict is the only one in the world where there is no hope whatsoever of the participants resolving the key issues on their own, by any means. Hamas makes no secret that, aided and abetted by Iran, it is dedicated to the destruction of Israel. Any idea of a ceasefire in the current fighting leading to a change in Hamas's dedication to Israel's elimination is naive to the extreme. Any cessation of hostilities, no matter how temporary, will be used by Hamas to enhance its weapons arsenal in preparation for the next round of terrorist attacks against its neighbour.

On their own, Israel and Hamas are doomed to a perpetual state of war no matter how much international diplomatic horsepower is applied to resolving the conflict. But there is a solution that the world has been adroitly avoiding for 40 years.

Israel deserves security. Its population is prepared to live in peace with its neighbours providing they aren't dedicated to its extermination. If Israel deals with the threat from Hamas on its own, the situation will not improve over the long term - Hamas will simply resuscitate itself and carry on with its terrorist actions against Israel. The Security Council needs to show some rare backbone and authorize a strong UN force under the UN Charter's Chapter 7, which authorizes the use of deadly force as necessary, and deploy it within the Gaza Strip, taking on the responsibility to provide the security to which Israel is entitled.

The force would need to be strong enough to interdict weapons smuggling by sea, land (including by tunnel) and air from outside sources, to eliminate rocket attacks on Israel, to stop suicide bombers through use of border controls and, most important, to be strong enough militarily to take on Hamas if need be. The oft-expressed idea of putting international monitors into the Gaza Strip to control smuggling and the firing of rockets is ludicrous: Hamas would run rings around any unarmed outsiders whose only mandate was to "observe and report." Such monitors wouldn't even qualify as yet another Band-Aid solution.

Israel would not like this solution. It is extremely suspicious of the UN, which has all too often demonstrated anti-Semitic policies and statements thanks to the fact that most member states sympathize with such attitudes. Israel did not recognize the UNEF from 1956 to its withdrawal in 1967. In fact, when we had to drive through Israel to get some of our supplies in Lebanon, we were not allowed to get out of our vehicles while inside Israel.

The UN Relief and Works Agency, which provides aid to Palestinian refugees in the Gaza Strip, has been accused by Israel - with some justification - of anti-Israel bias. Nevertheless, with a UN force deployed across the border from Israel and capable of providing the security desired by its citizens, the Israelis would soon see the benefits.

The UN has maintained a peacekeeping force in Cyprus since 1964. There has been no fighting between the Greek and Turk Cypriots for the past 34 years. The peacekeepers are now popular tourist attractions. When you arrive on the south coast of Cyprus, you can sign up for a bus tour of Nicosia, where you can observe the peacekeepers executing their boring duty in sentry boxes first manned by Canadian soldiers some 38 years ago. If you are polite, they will let you have your picture taken with them.

The UN Security Council and member states should be ashamed. While UN resources are providing peacekeepers in a country safer than most of our major cities, just across the Mediterranean, scores of innocent Palestinians are being killed because a terrorist organization with the stated aim of ridding the world of Jews is permitted to sacrifice its own people without protest or intervention by the international community.

Retired major-general Lewis MacKenzie was the first commander of UN peacekeeping forces in Sarajevo.

[Big Wooly Mammoth]

As i read recently something along the lines of 20 Israelies have been killed by Hamas rockets in the past 8 months, while over 300 can get wiped out by Israeli air strikes in just one night. In terms of retaliation (and who was the instigator in the first place) this seems only slightly out of whack.

should the Israeli's who live in Sderot, and other towns that Hamas has been hitting with their rockets, have to live their lives in bomb shelters at all time. Israel does all that it can to avoid civilian casualties. their targets are miltary installations. unfortunately there is collateral damage. Hamas ONLY targets civilians. that is a war crime.

Does cutting off food, medical and fuel supplies to the Gaza strip really provide for any sort of resolution? This will only fuel a completely depressed and impoverished people even further towards agressive actions, no?

that is true. However, the reason for cutting off those supplies is to cut off the supplies of weapons.

[Hal Johnson]

BWM said:

Some of you might want to read up on your history and learn some of the FACTS of the situation, rather than relying on anti-semiti and anti-Israeli propaganda. If you're gonna make some sort of stand, at least be educated about the situation.

Well this is gonna go nowhere fast.

[Hal Johnson]

BTW, what part of "Israel is bombing the shit out of Palestine" is supposed to be taken as anti-sematic, anti-Israeli propaganda?

[Hal Johnson]

Israel did it to Lebanon a couple of years aggo too.

Remember, when some Lebanese kidnapped two Israeli soldiers for no other reason than sheer terroristic boredom? Then Israel bombed the shit out of them?

I dont see how it can be viewed as anything other than a crying shame.

Im in no way being anti-sematic, nor was I being anti-american when I thought Bush's wars were stupid. There are powerful people in charge who seem to make the rules, doesnt mean everyone has to agree with them.

[Kanada Kev]

Al,

Thanks for that article from the G&M. The whole situation is disheartening. As Lewis MacKenzie stated, based on his experiences and expertise, there is no hope between Israel and Hamas. I do not defend either side, but rather see the unhealthy situation that will not lend itself to raising new generations of civilians who will want to make the change.

Would sending in UN forces to try to quell the violence there work? Just like Canadians are supposed to be "peace keeping" in Afghanistan (while they are entering into battle zones that are the most dangerous and violent since the Korean War) how would sending UN troops in there be any different. I only see more carnage. Maybe I'm wrong.

Since the UN didn't really do shit for Rwanda, Sudan, Somalia, etc. I doubt that the outcome would be any different. Cyprus is a great example of a success, but what happens the day after UN forces leave? Why are they still there?

The whole thing sucks.

Just found out a coworker's best friend's son was one of the three Canadian soldiers who died in the roadside blast in Afghanistan on XMas day

[Big Wooly Mammoth]

BTW, what part of "Israel is bombing the sh!t out of Palestine"

Remember, when some Lebanese kidnapped two Israeli soldiers for no other reason than sheer terroristic boredom? Then Israel bombed the sh!t out of them?

Once again - It might be worthwhile to get all of the facts straight before posting crap.

1. fwiw, there is no country called Palestine in existence today. There used to be such a country under the rule of the Ottaman Empire. After WWI that land was known as British Mandated Palestine. After 1948 it became known as Israel, Jordan, and Egypt. Egypt and Jordan ceded rights to their portions and they are now officially occupied territories of Israel. I'm in support of a two-state solution, with those occupied territories becoming known as Palestine.

2. Israel is not bombing the shit out of Palestine. They are bombing the shit out of Hamas, which is a terrorist organization bent on Israel's destruction.

3. "some Lebanese " did not kidnap Israeli soldiers. memebers of the terrorist organization Hezbollah illegaly entered Israel and kidnapped the soldiers. Israeli troops evacuated Southern Lebanon years ago, and were only there in the first place to try to stop the non-stop attacks that Hezbollah was staging from a sovereign country.

4. Israel did not bomb the shit out of Lebanon because soldiers were kidnapped. The kidnapping was the latest form of terrorist activities carried out by Hezbollah - another terrorist organization that is bent on the destruction of Israel. They were also comitting war crimes by targeting civilian populations with rockets. Hezbollah has the same value of life as their brothers in Hamas - which is not to say much. Not only did they hide amongst civilians, they created propaganda films doing things like using the same dead children in various scenes, and faking dead bodies.

you guys are just unobjectively repeating the same propaganda that you are being fed. try using some critical thought processes.

Edited January 6, 2009 by Guest

[Hal Johnson]

BTW, what part of "Israel is bombing the sh!t out of Palestine"

Remember, when some Lebanese kidnapped two Israeli soldiers for no other reason than sheer terroristic boredom? Then Israel bombed the sh!t out of them?

Once again - It might be worthwhile to get all of the facts straight before posting crap.

1. fwiw, there is no country called Palestine in existence today. There used to be such a country under the rule of the Ottaman Empire. After WWI that land was known as British Mandated Palestine. After 1948 it became known as Israel, Jordan, and Egypt. Egypt and Jordan ceded rights to their portions and they are now officially occupied territories of Israel. I'm in support of a two-state solution, with those occupied territories becoming known as Palestine.

2. Israel is not bombing the shit out of Palestine. They are bombing the shit out of Hamas, which is a terrorist organization bent on Israel's destruction.

3. "some Lebanese " did not kidnap Israeli soldiers. memebers of the terrorist organization Hezbollah illegaly entered Israel and kidnapped the soldiers. Israeli troops evacuated Southern Lebanon years ago, and were only there in the first place to try to stop the non-stop attacks that Hezbollah was staging from a sovereign country.

4. Israel did not bomb the shit out of Lebanon because soldiers were kidnapped. The kidnapping was the latest form of terrorist activities carried out by Hezbollah - another terrorist organization that is bent on the destruction of Israel. They were also comitting war crimes by targeting civilian populations with rockets. Hezbollah has the same value of life as their brothers in Hamas - which is not to say much. Not only did they hide amongst civilians, they created propaganda films doing things like using the same dead children in various scenes, and faking dead bodies.

you guys are just unobjectively repeating the same propaganda that you are being fed. try using some critical thought processes.

Okay, by singling out the "Palestine" thing you've avoided the issue completely. Im pretty sure you knew what I meant at that point.

Secondly, how do you defend the school bombing today?

" A total of 58 Palestinians were killed today – with just two confirmed as militants, health officials in Gaza said."

A) what part of this is propaganda, and

By this ratio, wouldnt Israel be better served to just wipe out the entire TERRITORY in one fell swoopor at this point? Why bother putting everyone through this misery?

If 2 militants are hiding in a school, then Israel is justified in blowing it up?

I must have really missed something in school, because this just doesn't seem right to me.

Edited January 6, 2009 by Guest

[Hal Johnson]

[

Once again - It might be worthwhile to get all of the facts straight before posting crap.

3. "some Lebanese " did not kidnap Israeli soldiers. memebers of the terrorist organization Hezbollah illegaly entered Israel and kidnapped the soldiers. Israeli troops evacuated Southern Lebanon years ago, and were only there in the first place to try to stop the non-stop attacks that Hezbollah was staging from a sovereign country.

That's funny, cause all the news sources I read said that the Soldiers were captured in Lebanon and were held as ransom "to free Arab prisoners in Israeli Jails". Hardly reason to severely attack the country.

But I guess the news you read is more acurate than the numerous sources I come accross.

[phishtaper]

i'm out. too much history here.

[SaggyBalls]

Well I'm glad you folks are adding to this thread.

In trying to understand the history of the 'issue', I came across a map of 'Palestine' that the was proposed...that looked quite a bit like 'Israel' and has 'arab' and 'jewish' territories.

So in my reading I understood that the basis of the 'issue' is that the Arab world doesn't RECOGNIZE Israel to be a genuine nation, and was imposed illegally.

The 'destruction of Israel' that keeps being used and never explained in the media seems to be the dissolution of the Israeli state and a return to terming the entire area 'Palestine' and having Jewish and Muslim Palestinean territories and citizens.

Why should any country exist based solely on its ethnic makeup?

'Palestine' (the Muslim Territories) have been under Israeli occupation for 40 years.

How could these marginalized people be expected to retaliate in any way aside from how they have been?

Hold them down, keep them stupid confused and agitated, and not expect them to act like caged animals...seems that Israel and the West must have some bigger plan for all of this or be entirely ignorant of the entire situation.

Edited January 11, 2009 by Guest
better map?

[afro poppa]

Personally, as a Jewish individual with strong ties to Israel I am always disgusted at the way certain people (for instance Hamas) treats Israel.

Although, on the other hand, I am also upset when Israel has to resort to things like crazy violence as a way to stop groups like Hamas from treating them like shit.

Bahhh...it all just makes me feel like poo.

[SaggyBalls]

From HistoryCommons.org

September 21, 1993: Israeli Hard-Liner Compares Israeli Government Official to Nazi Appeaser

Benjamin Netanyahu addresses the Knesset. [source: Neuhaus Nadav / Corbis Sygma]

During the first Knesset debate on the Oslo peace accords (see September 13, 1993), Likud party chairman Benjamin Netanyahu, a close ally of US neoconservatives and Christian fundamentalists, compares the accords to British attempts to appease Nazi dictator Adolf Hitler before World War II. Referring to British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain, he shouts at Foreign Minister Shimon Peres, “You are worse than Chamberlain.†Netanyahu is so aggressive in part because he has the public and private support of influential US neoconservatives and Christian fundamentalists. “I was ambassador [to the US] for four years of the peace process, and the Christian fundamentalists were vehemently opposed to the peace process,†Israeli ambassador Itamar Rabinovich will recall (see July 1993). “They believed that the land belonged to Israel as a matter of divine right. So they immediately became part of a campaign by the Israeli right to undermine the peace process.†Netanyahu’s outburst on the floor of the Knesset is a deliberate part of this strategy. [KNESSET HOMEPAGE, 2003; UNGER, 2007, PP. 136]

Entity Tags: Itamar Rabinovich, Shimon Peres, Benjamin Netanyahu

Timeline Tags: US International Relations

November 4, 1995 and After: Israelis, Americans Mourn Prime Minister Rabin’s Assassination; Some Call It God’s Work

Three US presidents—Bill Clinton, George Bush, and Jimmy Carter—join in honoring Rabin’s life and memory. [source: Knesset]

The reaction to the assassination of Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin (see November 4, 1995) is overwhelming. Millions of Israelis and Americans mourn his death both on a personal level and in concern for the fragile Israeli-Palestinian peace accords (see September 13, 1993). President Bill Clinton calls him “my partner and my friend. I admired him, and I loved him very much.†Former presidents Jimmy Carter and George H. W. Bush, and Bush’s Secretary of State, James Baker, speak movingly of Rabin’s legacy of peace. But others have different views. Millions of American fundamentalist Christians view Rabin’s assassination as an act of God. The peace talks “were going against the word of God,†says prominent fundamentalist Kay Arthur. “I believe that God stopped [the peace talks] by the things that happened.… I think God did not want the Oslo accord to go through.†Rabin’s widow, Leah Rabin, accuses Israel’s Likud Party leader Benjamin Netanyahu of inciting violence “against my husband and [leading] the savage demonstrations against him†(see October 1995). [uNGER, 2007, PP. 142-143]

Entity Tags: James Baker, Benjamin Netanyahu, George Herbert Walker Bush, William Jefferson (“Billâ€) Clinton, Kay Arthur, Leah Rabin, Yitzhak Rabin

Timeline Tags: US International Relations

January 22, 1998: President Clinton’s Pressure on Israel Interrupted by Lewinsky Revelation

Monica Lewinsky. [source: Fox News]

President Clinton meets with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to discuss restarting the stalled Israeli-Palestinian peace process (see Early 1998). Clinton immediately chastizes Netanyahu for meeting with American religious conservatives before meeting with him (see January 19-23, 1998), in an attempt to bring Netanyahu back to his side of the political fence. But Clinton is about to turn his attention to something radically different, and all but forget about Netanyahu. As Netanyahu’s political ally, televangelist Jerry Falwell, will recall, “While Netanyahu was sitting there, he was in a very difficult spot. The pressure was really on him to give away the farm in Israel. But while he was sitting there, someone came in and whispered in Mr. Clinton’s ear and Mr. Clinton turned several colors. Someone was telling him that the cat was out of the bag on [Clinton’s paramour] Monica Lewinsky. The meeting was terminated. Mr. Clinton had to save himself. The demands [to relinquish Israeli territory] that would have been forthcoming of Israel which would have been terrible, were not made. Netanyahu flew back to Israel. He was very funny when he told me about it. He said Israel had been saved by Monica Lewinsky.†[uNGER, 2007, PP. 157]

April 17, 2008: Former Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu Says 9/11 Attacks and Iraq War Good for Israel

Former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu tells an audience at Bar Ilan university in Israel that the 9/11 attacks were beneficial for Israel. “We are benefiting from one thing, and that is the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq. […] [The attacks] swung American public opinion in our favor.†[HA'ARETZ, 4/17/2008]

Entity Tags: Benjamin Netanyahu

Swung American public opinion in their favour?

Just swung them away from the Terrorists...coercing any 'proud' citizen out of looking at any of this from any other perspective.

Insane fearmongering hate always stems from something and is kept rolling by some means, even if it gets drawn out for entirely different reasons than what instagates that hate.

Wish I could take a side, but both sides are killing innocent people and it really does seem curious how it can be allowed to happen if this all isn't not the intentional outcome.

Also curious is how, as a stretch, some of this could also be in the 'Yay God' thread.

[Big Wooly Mammoth]

We seem to have lost the last few days of posts.

Netanyahu scares me. And the current attack in Gaza may have averted what was looking like a sure victory for him when Israel goes to the polls next (?) month.

The Christian conservative alliance with Israel is also very scary. They are waiting for the rapture which ultimately means the destruction of the Jews as I understand things. They ultimately want war in that part of the world. I don't understand how they can be considered allies of Israel.

I just wish all the extremists would go away. At the end of the day most of the people living in the region just want to live their daily lives in peace. They just want to be left alone and go on with their lives.

And all these innocent people keep getting killed. Even if Israel is justified in their response - assuming that they are only targetting the rocket launchers. munition holdings, and Hamas militants, who use civilians, mosques, etc as shields and cover - it can't be a good thing for the soldiers to know that they have killed innocent people. They have to live with those facts for the rest of their lives. There are no winners in this game.

[SaggyBalls]

"I don't understand how they can be considered allies of Israel."

Are you for real? Because when the Jews die, then the Christians win. Funny how it's all the same God but so many people think it's 'us versus them'

It's going to be amazing to see how this all plays out.

"There are no winners in this game. "

That's why I don't play the game.

I hope that people realize the exact reason that this topic shouldn't be looked at as a 'debate' or one to take sides is that there are no winners.

Hopefully people will eventually be comfortable sharing ideas and knowledge about all sides of this, as it's an entirely important piece of the puzzle in world history, religion, spirituality, and anthroplogy.