CAP on GAZA

[Blane]

Some coverage from the UK on this. I find it very refreshing to find television here willing to press officials on their bullshit say-nothing responses.

Check out this interview with the PM's spokesman that starts at about 9:00:

Edited January 9, 2009 by Guest

[Blane]

Another piece that looks more closely at what happened to the ceasefire and how it was broken, including another interesting interview with the PM's spokesman:

[Big Wooly Mammoth]

"I don't understand how they can be considered allies of Israel."

Are you for real? Because when the Jews die, then the Christians win. Funny how it's all the same God but so many people think it's 'us versus them'

I'm not sure what you mean. I was trying to say that I don't think that the Christian right does not truly have Israel and Jews' best interests at heart. And it's ironic that Israel and Jews in general can consider them to really be their friends.

[SaggyBalls]

I guess it depends on how you look at the term 'allies'

the Other parties' best interest at heart? no.

Is that really the reason parties ally themselves with others?

In Politics?

BWM - you must be way nicer than me.

Am I being too cynical here?

[Thorgnor]

"My enemy's enemy is my man." - Dead Prez

[SaggyBalls]

This is an interesting read. Could it be yet another piece in the mideast peace puzzle?

The Khazarian 'Jews' are NOT descendants of the 12 Tribes of Israel and their world view and lack of truly, pious spiritual Judaism have created conflict within that religion ever since.

To a great extent, these are our current day Zionist Jews (including Neocons, of course) who have formed a world power banking, extortion cult of war and death that has little or nothing to do with being devout adherents of Judaism. These are the folks who think nothing of breaking the law, lying (Kol Nidre), stealing, graft, corruption, assassination, blackmail, extortion or destroying tens of millions of people to get their way.

Throughout the past century, they have done just that in directly and indirectly liquidating over 100 million people. These soul- less 'reptilian' killers obey only the Talmud, not the laws of the lands they live in. This very behavior and 'ethics' appear, in fact, in the Talmud as Rabbinical teaching. Most pious Jews of good heart and conscience who follow the Torah know that such is not the way to achieve civilized, enlightened society.

This is, in part, one of the reasons "Jew haters" have often been unable to differentiate between the truly religious descendants of the 12 Tribes of Israel (the ones the Old Testament of the Bible is about) and these squatters and interlopers who came from Central Asia and have, for the most part, taken over their religion and turned it into an evil club of power manipulation, greed, money, war, death and destruction.

Many true Torah Jews are highly-offended at the atrocities these Zionist Khazars Talmudic Jews have inflicted on mankind. From the huge massacre of Russian Christians under Zionist Bolshevik Communism, to the mass starvation holocaust of 20-30 million Ukrainians, to the creation of Nazism/fascism of World War II, to the mass slaughter of Christian Armenians, and to the current day blood-lust genocide of Iraq and Iran...these Zionist Khazars have made it abundantly clear, to the tune of over 100 million dead, that they have nothing but murderous contempt of Christians and Muslims.

Khazaria

[Thorgnor]

Haifa is the world headquarters of Baha'i.

[SaggyBalls]

I thought the Baha'i's were set on having [color:purple]world peace.

What are you getting at, TB?

[SaggyBalls]

Yet another champion of the Constitution

The Human Rights Watch reports that for 3 years from 2004-2007, ten (10) Israelis civilians were killed and zero (0) soldiers. Hamas rockets also killed two (2) Palestinian civilians as well. This latest attack was set off by the deaths of three (3) Israeli civilians and one (1) IDF soldier per the AP. So for 4 years, we have roughly (probably a few more) fourteen (14) Israelis dead and a couple Palestinians (most likely by mistake) by Hamas.

[Thorgnor]

Not all Islrealis are jews.

[M.O.B.E]

Not all Jews are Jews.

[AD]

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/569872

[Hal Johnson]

So when is Harper going to change Canadian law to reflect his morals?

If my neighbour stabs me, I should be able to take out his entire family, his dog, and maybe his friends too, without being charged in court. Afterall, Im merely defending myself.

[Schwa.]

where do we go to protest the idiocy of both sides?

How do you stop a war that has been raging for 3000 years? Perhaps not the same war, but war nonetheless.

[SaggyBalls]

Schwa, war in general has been going on for far longer.

It's arguable that before the move to create israel, Jews and Muslims lived in the same vicinity without incident for hundreds of years.

Where was the war then?

This is another manufactured war.

[Deeps]

Can someone adequately explain why the creation of a Jewish or any other homeland makes any sense?

Was this simply knee-jerk UN resolution without any real forethought? Was it strategic? Was it an insidious move by some people in power at the time?

What do any people have a right to declare anyplace their homeland? The 3 major religions seem to have come from this tiny place yet the UN attempts to assert some kind of emblematic apology by saying that Jewish people can lay claim to it?

It just seems like a ludicrous notion. No one owns the land, no one one has claim to any of it, not because their family lived their for generations, not because their good book says their messiah came from there, and not based on their belief in their God and His relatinship with the place (which by the way is likely inaccurate).

[Removed as it is too personal for this forum...I know the person speaking and used his name and asked him to justify something ... the rest of this post sums it up enough my apologies ]

I don't intend to discount the tragedy that was the holocaust at all, but the reasons for that tragedy had very little to do with anything in the area that the jewish people were rewarded.

I'd like Yours Truly to elaborate on the "manufaturing" comment, I suspect this notion but do not have the information. Please elaborate when you get time.

Sorry to provoke if I have, but I find it alarming that people lay claim to this area and a body of some of the brightest leaders (UN) set this disaster in motion on us in 1947.

Respectfully confused.

Deeps

[Big Wooly Mammoth]

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/569872

makes me proud to be a Canadian actually.

Edited January 14, 2009 by Guest

[Big Wooly Mammoth]

Can someone adequately explain why the creation of a Jewish or any other homeland makes any sense?

Was this simply knee-jerk UN resolution without any real forethought? Was it strategic? Was it an insidious move by some people in power at the time?

What do any people have a right to declare anyplace their homeland? The 3 major religions seem to have come from this tiny place yet the UN attempts to assert some kind of emblematic apology by saying that Jewish people can lay claim to it?

It just seems like a ludicrous notion. No one owns the land, no one one has claim to any of it, not because their family lived their for generations, not because their good book says their messiah came from there, and not based on their belief in their God and His relatinship with the place (which by the way is likely inaccurate).

[Removed as it is too personal for this forum...I know the person speaking and used his name and asked him to justify something ... the rest of this post sums it up enough my apologies ]

I don't intend to discount the tragedy that was the holocaust at all, but the reasons for that tragedy had very little to do with anything in the area that the jewish people were rewarded.

I'd like Yours Truly to elaborate on the "manufaturing" comment, I suspect this notion but do not have the information. Please elaborate when you get time.

Sorry to provoke if I have, but I find it alarming that people lay claim to this area and a body of some of the brightest leaders (UN) set this disaster in motion on us in 1947.

Respectfully confused.

Deeps

dude - it's just a little complicated. fwiw, the United States is a Christian country. So is Canada. So are many others. There are also Budhist countries, Muslim countries, etc...

The Holocaust was more than just a little "sadness." (that addresses your original post) And it was not the reason for the establishment of the State of Israel. The Jewish people were not "rewarded with their own state as a response to the world turning a blind eye to what was going on. Although, the world's guilt did have something to do with it.

Some did feel an obligation to speed up the process at the time as a result, but the movement has started many years before. Google the "Balfour Declaration." if you want to learn some more about it. Israel is the only country where Jews can feel truly safe in a generally anti-semitic world. Even our wonderful country sent Jews back to Germany during WWII to be killed in concentration camps.

I don't really have the time or inclination to present a history lesson. The Balfour Declaration should be a good start.

Edited January 14, 2009 by Guest

[Deeps]

Sorry for the understatement and the omission of the Balfour Declaration. I was just trying to get it down, without going into all of it.

I just don't see how declaring religious states does anyone any good (read avoid more war and sadness).

It seems that there any number of ways to be persecuted, race, religion, political affiliation. We wouldn't want to start dividing countries based on these things would we? We would cause more harm than good wouldn't we?

[Deeps]

dude - it's just a little complicated. fwiw, the United States is a Christian country. So is Canada. So are many others. There are also Budhist countries, Muslim countries, etc...

Don't you think this is exactly the problem and actually a process that gets a lot of moderates in harms way in this case?

[SaggyBalls]

"Was it strategic? Was it an insideous move by some people in power at the time?"

Much of what I've read indicates 'yes' to those questions.

I can't discount the safety that Jewish people feel in Israel, but from its inception it's pretty obvious the intention of creating this new country...

"The Four Great Powers [britain, France, Italy and the United States] are committed to Zionism. And Zionism, be it right or wrong, good or bad, is rooted in age-long traditions, in present needs, and future hopes, of far profounder import than the desires and prejudices of the 700,000 Arabs who now inhabit that ancient land"

This lays a lot of strength to my 'manufactured' comment. While there is a slight possibility that this current conflict has, in fact, not been plotted for an unjust reason (fuck), Israel is a manufactured state complete with a manufactured conflict that stands to deserve far worse than it's got. Fortunately for Israel, and Israelis, the non-Zionist world is ruled by human beings that don't necessarily retaliate just cause they feel justified...though we usually see them flipping out of their minds, unable to communicate effectively, under the thumb of Zion.

How many Israelis are dead from this conflict?

Ideally, land would be given back to Palestinians and the military rule of that land would soften, but the terrorist groups would surely screw it all up.

Israel could fix it all and just nuke the whole place. We'd be rid of all of that silly conflict once and for all. Neutron bomb?

How could there really be Peace in the Middle East? We can't go back to 1916.

[Big Wooly Mammoth]

"

"The Four Great Powers [britain, France, Italy and the United States] are committed to Zionism. And Zionism, be it right or wrong, good or bad, is rooted in age-long traditions, in present needs, and future hopes, of far profounder import than the desires and prejudices of the 700,000 Arabs who now inhabit that ancient land"

Note that this was said in 1919. Balfour was referring to the Jewish People's historical rights to that land. The Jews had been kicked off the land many years earlier.

Balfour was also not necessarily free of anti-semitism himself. He actually was afraid of the Jews and caught up in the thinking that the Jews actually ruled the world.

This lays a lot of strength to my 'manufactured' comment. While there is a slight possibility that this current conflict has, in fact, not been plotted for an unjust reason (fuck), Israel is a manufactured state complete with a manufactured conflict that stands to deserve far worse than it's got.

Palestinians as nation is just as manufactured. Fuck, Canada as a nation is just as manufactured. At some point a group of people become a nation. be it due to religious, cultural, or geographical reasons.

I'm willing to accept that there is a nation of Palestinians. They are real people, and they exists. As I've said we are here and it is the present. We have to deal with the facts as they are. Trying to re-wrire history won't get us anywhere, except create more conflict.

Fortunately for Israel, and Israelis, the non-Zionist world is ruled by human beings that don't necessarily retaliate just cause they feel justified...though we usually see them flipping out of their minds, unable to communicate effectively, [color:red]under the thumb of Zion.

that last statement is sounding rather racist. it sounds like your into the whole Jewish conspiracy bullshit that has been around forever and perpetusated by the likes of Hitler.

Ideally, land would be given back to Palestinians and the military rule of that land would soften, but the terrorist groups would surely screw it all up.

assuming that ou are talking about Gaza and the West Bank, I couldn't agree more.

Israel could fix it all and just nuke the whole place. We'd be rid of all of that silly conflict once and for all. Neutron bomb?

that's unfortunately true as well.

How could there really be Peace in the Middle East? We can't go back to 1916.

...or 2000 BCE, or 1000 BCE or 100 CE, etc...

[Big Wooly Mammoth]

dude - it's just a little complicated. fwiw' date=' the United States is a Christian country. So is Canada. So are many others. There are also Budhist countries, Muslim countries, etc...

[/quote']

Don't you think this is exactly the problem and actually a process that gets a lot of moderates in harms way in this case?

yes, I do think that this is exactly the problem. I wish that we could live in a world where people let people be. Let the Muslims pary at their holy sites, the Christians at theirs, and the Jews at theirs. I don't care who "owns" the land as long as we respect each others rights to control our own holy sites, etc... But there ens up being conflict, sites overlap (see the Temple Mount and the Wailing Wall), and people just want to control more and more. Going way back, under Muslim rule, the Jews did have full access to their holy sites in the Holy Land. Muslims and Jews got along very well. That started to change under trhe Romans and the Christians who were not very tolerant of others unfortunately.

[Big Wooly Mammoth]

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/569872

makes me proud to be a Canadian actually.

Selective on rights:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20090113.EISRAEL13/TPStory/Opinion/editorials

[NewRider]

Just wanting to lighten the mood a little.