phishtaper Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 i dont know whats going on ... looks crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Evil_Mouse Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 CJ and I were living in Cairo exactly this time 20 years ago, when Gulf War I broke out. We had to field calls from panicked family members asking whether we were caught in the middle of exploding bombs or raging gunfights, while all we could hear were dogs barking in the streets. We'd ask Egyptians what they thought, and their answer was always, "That's somebody else's problem." This stuff going on right now is very much Egypt's problem, and I fret deeply for them. Mubarak was in power then, and still there now, and there've been way too many reasons for people to get plenty fed up with it all in the years between. He's also the strongman of the region, keeping the Muslim Brotherhood in check, and sustaining the peace with Israel, the only Arab country in the region to do so. So yes, it's completely fucked up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollie Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 I'm getting mixed messages about Mubarak. Not to put it too simply but, is he a good guy or a bad guy? Is the threat of the Muslim Brotherhood real or are they Mubarak's bogeyman?Seems to me the Brotherhood are being used to scare the West off change. But I also get the impression that change really is needed and Mubarak is nothing more than a dictator in sheep's clothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollie Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 BTW, what were you doing in Egypt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Evil_Mouse Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 We were just traveling, and at the time living with an Egyptian deadhead we'd met whose business was making Land Rovers. When things were starting to get really dodgy and they were starting to cancel flights out of the country we played around with the idea of hopping into one of those jeeps and skipping off through the Sudan towards Kenya or somewhere. Then one night we made the mistake of watching CNN, panicked, and hopped instead onto one of those disappearing flights. I'd say the Brotherhood is a genuine danger, despite the good stuff they do that the government could never be bothered with; Sayyid Qutb is someone worth knowing about, partly because he was an interesting character, partly because his arguments have fueled groups like the Taliban and Al Qaeda. Not surprisingly, his arguments are a lot more subtle than what his current followers use him for, but I'm sure there are people in the Brotherhood who cover all the possible (mis/)interpretations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Evil_Mouse Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Egypt Regime Offers Talks with Muslim Brotherhood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgnor Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 There must be a way found for the brotherhood to have a voice, but for the country itself to remain secular. If the recognition of Israel's validity fails, we're in big trouble. That said, the brotherhood is not really much of a threat to run the government, but they are the largest oppositional organization that hasn't been dismantled by Mubarak so they seem to be the first to get our attention; reason, fear mongering. We're not really interested in Egyptian freedom anyway, only what peace in Egypt and Israel can do for us. We aren't even interested in our own freedom. We call this kind of protest a threat and build fences in downtown TO when we know that something is coming, but we rarely stop to see what it is that's barreling down the streets. Mubarak must go, but there isn't really anyone ready to fill the void. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Wooly Mammoth Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Mubarak must go, but there isn't really anyone ready to fill the void. which is the scary part. Israel now is facing the prospect of having a Hizbollah government to their north, Iran backed Syria to the northeast, Hamas to their west, and who knows what to their south. That doesn't look good from the standpoint of peace and calmness in the region. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgnor Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 (edited) I wouldn't be too worried about Egypt. I'd be more worried about Lebanon. Everyone seems to forget the few examples of Islamic-Secular states where things work pretty well. Turkey is a great example of a place where, just like the rest of the world, there are powerful extremist forces and there are people who don't want to live under violent and terrorist regimes. Turkey is still having trouble convincing Europe that it is European, simply because the majority of the country is "culturally" Islamic. I think our fears about the Islamic Brotherhood in Egypt are OUR fears and that Egypt will be just fine in the long term. People got all freaked out when the Ukraine went Orange, or when Bolivia went "communist", but the people of the nation stood up and demonstrated that they no longer wanted to live under puppet regimes and dictatorships. I don't feel like these protests are a request on behalf of the Egyptian people to be oppressed by another "unreasonable" group of autocrats. m2c. here's hoping for the best Edited February 5, 2011 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollie Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 Al Jazeera TV:http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaggyBalls Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 (edited) Any nation that holds Islam up as a political system seems questionable and not only because the islamist movement is not a united one. Edited February 6, 2011 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgnor Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 No more or less questionable than our own insistence that we are secular when we still ask people to swear to god in a court of law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaggyBalls Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 Certainly questionable in a different scope, T. One can opt to not swear on the bible/to God in our courts. Something tells me there aren't the same freedoms and respect for personal truths in countries deeply rooted in Islamism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgnor Posted February 9, 2011 Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 (edited) Depends which ones. Pakistan, not so likely. Egypt, you can swear on a Christian Bible, or a Talmud. Turkey, pretty much same rules as the rest of the 'Modern' world, or the 'rest' of Europe for that matter. What do you mean by Islamism? That's a pretty modern development as well. Being Muslim is old school, but this Islamism thing is really just a recent American code for "we don't like the idea that you guys want to do things you're way, so we're gonna call it something like Islamism. That way we can suppose that you're all a bunch of ideologues, and that you can't be reasoned with." It's real convenient that all of a sudden Muslim governments and societies can be called Islamist, when the issue is that we're crusading against their belief systems. But does a crusade by another name stir up less organized resistance? apparently so, cause we fuckin'bought that bullshit and ran with it. In my opinion, there are NO countries rooted in Islamism, but many with historical ties to Islam, or with Muslim societies at their helm. Egypt was democratic before the West had a notion of democracy. After the West got wind of the Arab translations of Socrates and Plato we quickly erased our own memory of where we learned the ideas we now hold so dear. So while we got the idea of "reason" from Arab translators of Greek texts, we somehow manage to accept the concept that Arabs are unreasonable, and that they have no experience with running a peaceable society. And btw, how would we know anything about any of the places where things go smoothly? Those places aren't 'newsworthy'. We only care about news from the Islamic world when it confirms our suspicions that we're 'better off'. m2c Edited February 9, 2011 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schwa. Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 Mubarek just pissed off the people, BIGTIME! Tomorrow's protests are going to make history. Here's hoping they don't provoke the army into the crazy violence they are predicting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanada Kev Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 (edited) Mubarek is now gone ... officially. Egypt is RAGING!Amazing to watch. Can only imagine what it must be like there for whom this means so much.http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/ Edited February 11, 2011 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phishtaper Posted February 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 pretty remarkable stuff. the result, the way it all came to happen, the excitement of what the future holds, or can be. they just said on the news that in all of this chaos, the military did not fire one shot. this really is incredible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradm Posted February 12, 2011 Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 http://www.ismubarakstillpresident.com/Aloha,Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esau. Posted February 12, 2011 Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 Some interesting pictures dating from January 25 to February 12 - make sure to click "open in full screen" to see all 27 pics. http://www.cbc.ca/sports/story/2011/02/12/egypt.html?ref=rss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollie Posted February 14, 2011 Report Share Posted February 14, 2011 http://www.presidency.gov.eg/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schwa. Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Should change the title of this thread to "How about that Libya/Tunisia/Egypt/Jordan/Yemen/Palestine/Isreal/Iran/Syria/Bahrain thing"Fucking Middle-East is in shambles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgnor Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 For the better, imo. When hasn't the politics of the middle east been in shambles? Before or during Colonization? Decolonization? Ever? Hey hey, ho ho, autocracy has got to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Evil_Mouse Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Pretty friggin' inspiring stuff, by any standard. Qaddafi will be the most interesting, imo, and potentially lethal of these guys to go. Clock's ticking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgnor Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Sadly, I fear he'll kill thousands first and then end up like Mussolini. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey Boy 2.0 Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Ironic quote of the day"No one in his right mind can allow the country to be torn apart and to fall into the hands of madmen" - Muammar Gaddafi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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