State of our Scene- opinions??

[Velvet]

The west coast needs more afterparties.

[secondtube]

my two cents:

the fatties are RIPPIN' it up right now. Currently my fav. touring band. Check them out at the Casbah EVERY tuesday.

now for the second comment. OUR local scene is DYING (or maybe already dead) here in Hamilton.

In the winter, when school is on, and Mac and Mohawk students are in, the crowds are o.k. but that is because they are students and want to drink.

Jomomma had the tuesday night slot. they were GREAT. but NO ONE showed up. it was horrible. yes in browntown they are getting huge followings. so yes, htown let them down. so they stop doin' the tuesday night gigs, and i get another band to rehearse the gigs.

things were looking positive, then fell through. it seems like new life was on the horizon, then boom. empty.

so now joel is back from school, and the fatties are tearing the roof of the house. yet two tuesays ago, their first one back, it was almost dead. only about 60 or so.

Now last tuesday they got around 200. a little better. NOTHING like back in the day at the old la luna's. I'm sure burt, joe, fatties, etc. can attest to that venue. its in our hearts forever.

Doug has been playing la luna's/casbah for over 10 years, and now crowds are almost non existant. i feel for ya shane. the casbah is down to two nights a week for jams, the rest for club/dj/dance stuff.

they gotta do what they have to, to stay in business.

Well, thats all i have to say.

[bouche]

This is a great time for anyone with an interest in this scene to really help share the music, images and the information.

Only a couple of years ago, only a lucky few could actually be part of sharing the scene with their friends and their friends' friends.

Being a taper was a very expensive and time consuming venture, and being a photographer, well, you'd have to smuggle in a ton of requipment or get yourself a photopass, not to mention run through barrels of film, learning how to shoot at a show.

Today, without the need to save your money and time to head out on the road for large shows, almost anyone can easily get together with their local and not-so-local friends weekly, see their favorite bands AND capture the evening on all of the different forms of digital media.

High quality recording gear is at an all-time low, and digital cameras and their storage has come down in price and increased in quality by 2-fold in each respect.

You can buy a SONY minidisc recorder for $399 at the Future Shop, new. 3 Megapixel digital cameras under $500 is now the norm. Mind you, internet bandwidth is becoming quite a commodity, so new compression standards will have to become adopted by digital traders, yet again.

With the internet, you now have an instant connection from across the country. It is such an incredible tool, that it is used by friends in the same city and neighbourhood's to plan their weekends.

Now, just throw back into this recipe, bands like Nero that we love to see, hear, and share. who brought in so many non-local jambands to Ottawa regularly to open our ears even more. You now have a recipe for the incredible never ending show that can fuel the fire in the ears and the eyes of new people. People that you may believe would not enjoy the music, or would turn their noses up. It is very easy to make an audio disc, write WWW.JAMBANDS.CA and your email address in big bold letters on it, and hand it to someone you see daily at your video store, gym, or grocery store. Saying "I thought you might like this", and handing it with a smile should pave the way for you to eventually bring them out to a show.

Some may stay, some may go, but whatever the case may be, these people also have friends and family whom they may share the shared with.

I see a perpetually cycling engine that can only become more efficient as time goes on. When new technologies arrive, and pure interest and talent grows, I can only get excited as I imagine the possibilities.

[show---whore]

hey secondtube------

and the two nights a week might not last for long i hear that it will only be one night a week soon. but im working on that

[Velvet]

Rally the kids, nero and Threat From Outer Space will be at the Casbah on Friday August 2nd. We'll do our best to come to Hamilton as much as we can and see if we can't bring some other bands with us. See you there. (anyone got any press contacts?)

[CharlieDon'tSurf]

no real opinion... all I gotta say is that with the amount of effort i see people putting into it, the 'scene' should have no problems in the long term... everything has its highs and its lows, but the nature of the 'scene' and the few people i've met in it are a real driving force...

plus, if someone's willing to look after my dogs on a regular basis, i'd do my utmost to promote whatever i could

[Northern Wish]

Here is something else we can all do........

When surfing the net, try to promote our scene whenever you can. I sit on Direct Connect (an shn downloading program), several chat rooms, and many message boards. I try to mention (or pipe in) information on our bands. I have found that many fans of live music are just looking for something new. I know we all own 800 Phish shows, but not alot of variety.

When I am on Message Boards for other bands who have fans looking for music, I always offer up B+Ps. Remember that those are the kids who care about their favorite bands, and understand that word of mouth really does work.

For example after reading that nero has the Addison Groove Project opening for them on July 31 in Ottawa, and had a few American gigs- I posted offering a "New Music B+P". I offered to send a nero show (6.8.02) to anyone who wanted it and stipulated that instead of sending me the envelope and cash (I don't mind putting a little of my own money in to this)- they turn around and send that show for free to someone else in another area that they have traded with. I know this works because I have been in contact with 6 members of AGP's board who were thrilled with the nero show, and have since sent the show out to friends. That particular show is now in the hands of fans in Colorado, Arizona, Vermont, Mass, New York and Georgia. And one of them is even making the trek out to the Ottawa show from Vermont after taking in the Valencia show.

It is a little bit of effort to sign up for these boards, and post and then burn/ send out cds..... but it may very well be helping the long term outlook of this scene we love so dearly.

Try It!

Sean

[show---whore]

And whats the Deal with The New Deal why aren't any canjam bands opening up for them in canada as well as the there states gigs that would be a great crossover to help the canjam scene IMO Nero or JSB would be such a great opener of TND in and canada and the states you should look into the that vevet they have a upcoming gigs. you would think that TND would trying to help the canjam scene that were there roots are from.

[weezy]

The scene out west... what scene? The only outfit in town bringing jammy shows is Upstream Entertainment - and they haven't been doing much recently. Coming soon (Aug 31) in Whistler is Zoophorus - Maceo, Spearhead, Living Daylights - which is cool, but not the most exciting thing to me... Local bands? There's 2 or 3 worth mentioning, but nothing compared to the east.

One thing I've noticed (sort-of mentioned earlier) is the somewhat lack of evolution in the sound of 'jambands'. I've downoaded everything available from GTB, jomomma, etc... and, well, they all sound sorta like the Dead and Phish - 10 years ago, they might have generated some excitement, but today it comes off as a bit cheesy. (no offence to the bands or the fans) Don't get me wrong, I am a huge Dead fan and Phish phreak, but nowadays I'm waaaay more interested in bands like STS9, tND and Schofield, because they are the only ones doing something new w/ the music - incorporating electronica with the many other traditional influences for instance.

[MarcO]

quote:

---

Originally posted by weezy:

One thing I've noticed (sort-of mentioned earlier) is the somewhat lack of evolution in the sound of 'jambands'. I've downoaded everything available from GTB, jomomma, etc... and, well, they all sound sorta like the Dead and Phish - 10 years ago, they might have generated some excitement, but today it comes off as a bit cheesy. (no offence to the bands or the fans) Don't get me wrong, I am a huge Dead fan and Phish phreak, but nowadays I'm waaaay more interested in bands like STS9, tND and Schofield, because they are the only ones doing something new w/ the music - incorporating electronica with the many other traditional influences for instance.

---

For the most part dude, I agree. Although Nero struck me as being rather refreshing the one time I had a chance to see them. Didn't get bogged down in playing what they thought the audience might want to hear ("anybody wanna hear St. Stephen???") but played what they wanted to, and very well.

As for The New Deal supporting their "roots", they do: almost every Canadian gig they do features a local or nationally known DJ spinning before and between sets. They brought DJ Harry (of Colorado) and Mocean Worker (of NYC) up for support on their high-profile T.O. gigs. And they were both kick-ass (esp. DJ Harry!). This is a live band that naturally fused the jam-aesthetic with the urban dance sound that places like The Comfort Zone and the Wetlands had always presented as well as the jammers.

Personally, if I never hear a Dead or Phish cover again, I wouldn't be too disappointed. And those are probably my two favorite bands.

[show---whore]

The New Deal's roots are as a jamband thats how they started out and it was the jam scene the help them as The New Deal get off the ground. it would be great if they had jambands opening for them it would also would be great cross over into are scene. its good that there having dj open for them but i want bands to be opening the shows that would help canjam scene more then dj's.

[doubleB]

I could easily write 10 pages on my thought and theories surrounding this topic.

All I'm gonna say is this.... if we want this thing to become bigger than it is.... the very first thing we have to do is loose the term "jamband" all together. I know a lot of you older heads take comfort in that term, but it has to go. It turns off more people than it turns on, media and venues especially....

Besides... we still haven't agreed on what a Jamband is anyway.... is Threat From Outer Space a Jamband?.... Hell no! Is Cruzao a Jamband?.... Hell no! Do they both kick huge ass? Hell ya

So why do we exclude them by using this Jamband term?? Perhaps the stagnant growth can be attributed to our lack of willingness to support the non core "jambands". There are touring bands that are doing some amazing shows.... and no one shows up... they are not all Jambands... get your heads out of that space... the less clearly we define the style, the greater a market it can reach, and therein lies the secret to our growth... think about it

[ersh]

I've often wondered why BNB did so well. I can't really place it... maybe the fact of us starting up in Thunder Bay and having everyone we knew from that city spread out across the country. I mean, when we did our first western tour in 98... there was at least 5 or ten T Bay kids out at every show with friends they brought along. A mailing list, tapers and back breaking touring also helped.

But it's hard... discouraging especially now. THe jam scene gets NO media support. The media will point out that we have beards and Mike's amp had a flowery covering. The media is NOT the key success. If the media swarmed it.. it'd probably lose it's appeal to lots and get chewed up and spit out within months.

Bah! I'm kind of turned off to the whole thing now. Good luck to the bands out there doin it now. Don't stop. Keep playing NO MATTER WHAT. If something comes up that could stop you - overcome it and you'll be stronger and smarter. Just do it for the music and nothing else.

[Booche]

I am with you DoubleB and I thought I was the only one on this board that shared your viewpoint. I know a TON of people that get turned off immediately (without hearing a single note) whenever they hear the term 'jamband'.....I use it, but only amongst my friends that use it. I had the most interesting conversation with the bass player from Drive By Leslie and his take on the 'jambands' label was a negative one as well. He hears some labelled as a jamband, and it wouldnt interest him to check them out, it would do the opposite.

Like I have said before, a band is either "good" or "not". I try and go see the bands that "i" think are good.

I cant get into my thoughts on the scene as a whole right now. Give me a while to think before I screw everyone's bandwidth over.

Drive By Leslie was FANTASTIC by the way and fit the 'good' label. Someone stated they have that set from CTMF, was it you Show-Whore?

[doubleB]

I have learned to never use the term when dealing with anyone in the media or on the streets.

For whatever reason, the Jamband term carries with it a lot of negativity.

The demographic about to enter University age is the start of a major population bulge that will last for 10-15 years.... This market is the key and the term Jamband remids them of their parents music... better start calling it something else, even if it is the same pile.

[puddles]

Im trying to be a COOL FOOL...but everything changed forever the day the weekend in Surarbush '95 ended!! Kids trying to outdue their own threshold etc.. Jer. passing on...Nitrous....scalping...I try to stick to 2-3 show stints and festivals where I know the older folk will be...Life's too freakin'hort to watch 17 year old girls passed out with puke all over them and a tiny body filled with bad blotter...rather drink berr,puff one and lay in my turtle pool while Kimock is laying down a 30 minute "in a Silent Way"....peace,pudds

[dave-O]

Funny, I had an interesting discussion on this topic on Saturday night...

I've always felt that the term Jamband was a bit of cop-out as a descriptor. And many times when a band lacks a known comparison, they get lumped into the jamband pile (i.e. Drums + Tuba). But IMO it doesn't describe a type of music - just a type of playing (improvising).

The "J" word is definitely a detractor to anyone not in the scene. Once upon a time, I accidentally mentioned that my band "jams" to an A&R rep from EMI Canada. Her response - do you play never-ending songs that don't go anywhere? Not quite...

My latest solution (courtesy Levon Helm in The Last Waltz):

"How would you describe your band?"

"Well there's a bit of funk, jazz, bluegrass, twang, some improvisation and experimentation..."

"So what's that called?"

"Rock n' Roll."

[show---whore]

i like to use these terms when talking about are scene.

improvisation and experimentation

[Ms.Huxtable]

Rock n roll indeed. That was well said.

I do like the idea of a new and improved label. With the 400+ minds on this site we should be able to start the revolution...so let's hear it pholks, what should we label this genre?

I think we are lucky to be a part of the scene right now. Without Phish and some of the more recognized Candian bands touring, we are fortunate to be exposed to a plethera of up-and-coming musicians. I personally am spending a lot less on tickets and cover and seeing more shows. I enjoy getting to see multiple shows of certain bands which gives a more true representation of them. I understand that you can just have an off night, so I like to judge a band on a few shows. I like watching bands evolve. nero went from wow to WHAT THE F*CK??? in just a year, Ferris Wheeler is evolving before our ears, as is GTB and Downtime and countless others. I think this is a great time to be a fan of the scene and I am a true believer that WE, are the people that can build it into whatever we choose it to be. Look what we have already done as a collective team! For as many of us as are on this board, there are hundreds more who know about it. Hundreds of people that share the Sanctuary spirit, who share the Sanctuary's view on music and fun and who use the Sanctuary as a promotion tool. I can feel it growing quickly and expect even more growth in the coming years. We must be responsible and proactive to promote the scene into what we invision. It can be done, but not overnight. I don't think it's hurting at the moment.

[Booche]

Personally, I dont think there should be a label.

It would end up containing negative conotations (sp?) as well. See, the whole thing about pigeon-holing is for these record execs anyways. That way, they can tell you what a band is like, and they never have to listen to them. They may hear them, but they certainly wont listen.

The irony is so disturbing, that I just fell off my chair.............

[bouche]

The Jamband term is not a bad term in any way, it is only taken badly by some. Hell, so are a lot of other words.

Categories suck, and they get worse when you have to combine all of the cool categories into one. It seems that the term Jamband is only a general term and it does exist. It may be difficult to make up a new word all of a sudden and hope it goes over well.

There probably is never a need to describe any one band as a jamband, because there are seemingly infinite combinations of influence and style that are going to be impossible to share.

I really would hate to have to describe the list of bands at Evolve seperately. It would probably take all day, so encapsulating all of the bands into one term that is easily understood should take care of that.

I have a feeling that whatever term was used, the scene would still get hit with the same stereotypical impressions. It's not the name that hurts so much, but probably the image.

Anyone have any new words that they'd like to propose?

Bounce 'n' Wiggle?

[show---whore]

how about drugged out smelly hippie music hahah

[Ms.Huxtable]

Mark Tonin always uses "Grass Roots"

[bradm]

I saw an interview with T. S. Monk, Thelonious' son, and an outstanding jazz drummer in his own right. Paraphrasing what he said:

quote:

---

Originally said by T. S. Monk:

If you tell people you like jazz because it's intellectually stimulating, or challenging, they won't know what you're talking about. If you say you like jazz because it's

fun

, they'll say, "Oh, really? Where can I hear some of this fun music?"

---

Maybe that's what we should call it: fun music, or maybe neo-fun, to give the media a catchy label they can attach to it.

When you talk to people, emphasize what the music does to you, rather than stating arbitrary labels: it might be danceable music, it might be mesmerizing music, it might be music that evokes images of beauty and emotion, it might just be fun.

Aloha,

Brad

[weezy]

How about at the next big nero gig in Ottawa - make sure some media rep. is there - everyone dresses in their Sunday best. Clean-shaven, suits, cocktail dresses - maybe even crown a king and queen. Everyone has to be losing their shit on the dancefloor, of course. That sort of thing would dispell all kinds of preconceptions and myths - plus it would be hilarious.