H1N1 - To Vaccinate or Not to Vaccinate

[AD]

i can't believe the paranoia and fear-mongering.

[Jaimoe]

No flu shot for me (see AD above), plus I've never had a flu shot.

[ollie]

i can't believe the paranoia and fear-mongering.

On which side?

[AD]

Both.

[SaggyBalls]

So on one hand there's the flu shot...that gives us a fair chance that we won't get sick from a certain strain of flu, miss work, and feel like shit.

On the other hand there's the flu shot...full of mercury (among other heavy metals) and Squalene.

I'd take the flu over poisoning my body with anything but booze, drugs, or food additives. At least those toxins in the amounts I'd expect flush from the body without much long lasting damage.

[phishtaper]

there's less mercury in the flu shot than there is in a tuna sandwich. modern life involves evaluating acceptable risks every hour of every day.

[bouche]

For the record Health Canada announced the vaccine was ready on October 21st. Gotta admit, this level of preparedness is rather impressive for something of such a scale. Hats off to you sirs.

I'd like to see the preparedness model and the scale that you are working off of. 53 people out of nearly 7 billion people were killed by this particular flu. About 30,000 were infected....OUT OF 7 BILLION. In the USA alone, 1,205 people die from smoking. Why is there no hysteria for shots about that?

I'm just sayin'.

I'm glad there's a shot. there should be a shot for everything, but what made this flu more important than everything else that's killing people everyday?

[Burnt]

i heard they implant a small microchip into your blood stream when they do mass inoculations. they can track your whereabouts and your thoughts.

They can't track me or read my thoughts while I have my tin foil hat on.

[Birdy]

but what made this flu more important than everything else that's killing people everyday?

It's potential.

I can understand a lot of the arguments against getting vaccines (aside from the mind control one), and 9 times out of 10, if you are an otherwise healthy person, it's probably better for YOU if you don't get it, get the flu and then build your own natural immunity, but that's just better for YOU. If you get sick you'll undoubtedly pass it along to someone else and then to someone else, and so on down the line. Somewhere in that mix will fall people who aren't as healthy as you, people who could potentially die from it. Hence, why it's become so important.

[nibbler]

there's less mercury in the flu shot than there is in a tuna sandwich. modern life involves evaluating acceptable risks every hour of every day.

Do people develop severe neurological disorders or die as a direct result and within mere days of consuming tuna sandwiches? Well they sure do after getting vaccinations- and c-towns' link to the video above is a sad example of these very real dangers.

When it comes to issues like radioactivity leaks from uranium mine tailings; Tar Sands pollution; or Global Warming- the Harper conservatives refuse to listen to or to take scientific evidence seriously.

Now I am to believe that these same faith based chumps "believe in science" all of a sudden? Without consultation they went out and bought two doses of the H1N1 vaccine for each Canadian... even though millions of us will refuse the shot. WHAT THE FUCK? Huge waste of 500 million dollars

If you're not confused by the conservatives' flip flopping about reacting to scientific evidence, and you've chosen to ignore the big waste of taxpayer money on this flu hype, its quite possible you too may have already consumed one too many tuna sandwiches!

[AD]

9 times out of 10, if you are an otherwise healthy person, it's probably better for YOU if you don't get it

75% of people believe every statistic they hear.

[phishtaper]

dude, i dont know what the fuck that was all about ... i'm just sayin' there's less mercury in the flu shot than there is in a tuna sammich.

[Birdy]

9 times out of 10' date=' if you are an otherwise healthy person, it's probably better for YOU if you don't get it[/quote']

75% of people believe every statistic they hear.

disclaimer: if you fall into this percentile, don't listen to me. i just put it in there to make my argument sound more convincing.

[nibbler]

That wasnt intended personally:

Your example mercury pollution in our fish supply seemed an appropriate segue into my rant. The selective listening the federal government applies when it comes to science it spends time and money on. I blabbed on about tuna but your point about making choices, evaluating risks was equally pertinent.

It seems if the science serves the interest of fearmongering and control, and/or fattening the coffers of big industry, well then its good science! if it genuinely serves the long term health and welfare of Canadians, or the greater good of the planet- their track record is fuck it.

A couple doctors I know tell me that if they had to choose between catching the "bird flu" of last year's fame, or the swine flu this year- they would gladly take the swine flu as its far less dangerous than the bird flu was- ooh and look at what a pandemic that turned out to be!

"DON'T PANIC" - Douglas Adams

[Booche]

fwiw, a nurse I was talking with recently said that there might be all sorts of unpleasant complications that come from getting both of these shots together that the medical world is starting to talk about.

I've never had a flu shot of any kind, but always prefer thinking that my own immunity benefits from me fighting the thing myself. I had a really nasty flu a couple of weeks ago, but now it's done, and I don't have to think about all those sad little aborted micro-organisms weighing on my conscience.

I'm going with Health Canada's recommendation rather than some crackpot nurse.

If I end up complicated, oh well. It was my choice to roll the dice.

I havent got the flu since I started getting the shot each year about 5 years ago. Coincedence? Perhaps. But to answer Ollie's original question....no. Just because I am getting a flu shot doesnt mean I wont get the flu.

[deranger]

no flu shot for me.

I bet the company that makes the vaccination is rolling in the $ these days.

man made genetically designed flu.

no fear mongering. no paranoia. no flu shot.

[ollie]

Health Canada gave its stamp of approval to this country's H1N1 vaccine without evaluating its safety and effectiveness in a single Canadian, the Citizen has learned.

Instead, the federal drug regulator approved the pandemic vaccine based on the results of a small clinical trial conducted in Belgium.

The study involved 130 healthy adults, aged 18 to 60, who were inoculated with the same version of Canada's vaccine, which is produced by GlaxoSmithKline under the trade name Arepanrix. The vaccine used in the Belgian study was manufactured by GSK in Germany. Canada's vaccine is produced in Ste-Foy, Que.

Health Canada officials released the information late Friday, in response to questions from the Citizen about what scientific evidence was used to establish the safety and effectiveness of the H1N1 vaccine.

"Data from a clinical trial conducted in Belgium, using the same version of the vaccine produced by GSK in Dresden, Germany, was reviewed, as was initial safety data from European and Japanese studies using the Quebec-produced vaccine Arepanrix," Health Canada spokeswoman Christelle Legault said in an e-mail.

Legault did not indicate how many volunteers participated in the Japanese or European studies that used the Quebec-made vaccine.

To date, Health Canada has not reviewed any data from the clinical trials being conducted in this country, said Legault.

"Canadian clinical trials, which began in October, will be used as part of ongoing work to evaluate the vaccine's safety and effectiveness in larger and more specific populations, after the vaccine authorization takes place," said Legault.

Since Wednesday, when Health Canada surprised many observers by approving the pandemic vaccine two weeks ahead of schedule, questions have been raised about precisely what information went into evaluating the vaccine.

Opposition parties have called on federal Health Minister Leona Aglukkaq to make public the medical evidence used to determine the safety of the H1N1 vaccine to reassure Canadians that no shortcuts were taken in the race to test and produce the pandemic flu shot.

" 'Trust me' is not the way to build confidence with Canadians," said Liberal health critic Carolyn Bennett, a family physician. "Let's be transparent about it."

At a news conference Friday, Aglukkaq said Health Canada approved the vaccine ahead of the initial target of early November because "the international community was able to share their clinical data and work with us."

As a result, "we had all the data that was necessary to make an informed decision on the safety and effectiveness of the vaccine by Wednesday," said Aglukkaq.

NDP health critic Judy Wasylycia-Leis said she has repeatedly pressed Aglukkaq for the H1N1 safety data, but has not received a response.

"I was told all documents and studies around vaccines are transparent and fully available. I haven't found them yet, and I'm still looking," said Wasylycia-Leis.

"Where's the hard scientific evidence showing that (they) have done the tests, independent of the drug companies? Where is the body of evidence that they're citing?"

The questions are being raised because Canadian scientists, who started testing the Glaxo vaccine last week, have indicated it could take up to seven weeks to collect the early results from Canadian test subjects.

The situation stands in marked contrast to the U.S., where federally funded scientists last month published early results of their safety and effectiveness studies, weeks ahead of the vaccine's approval by the Food and Drug Administration.

The ongoing studies by the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases are being done in 2,800 people -- a much larger sample than the 130 in the Belgian study reviewed by Health Canada.

The federal regulator also examined data on the safety and effectiveness of GSK's squalene adjuvant, a chemical derived from fish oil that boosts the vaccine's effectiveness.

The H1N1 vaccine is the first time Canada has approved a flu shot with the squalene adjuvant in it.

According to Legault, Health Canada had access to data from a vaccine approved in Europe for use against the H5N1 bird flu.

"A mock vaccine was developed by the manufacturer, GSK, in the pre-pandemic period between 2007 to June 2009, using an H5N1 flu virus," said Legault.

"During this period, Health Canada conducted multiple inspections of the vaccine manufacturing facilities, validated the vaccine production process, and reviewed results from both animal and human studies with the mock vaccine."

The squalene adjuvant used by GSK has been "tested in approximately 45,000 people around the world and has been evaluated by Health Canada and other regulatory authorities as part of the review of the H5N1 vaccine in the pre-pandemic period," said Legault.

"No significant safety concerns regarding the use of the adjuvanted vaccine were detected."

While each flu vaccine has its own safety tests, very rare side-effects can only be detected when millions of people take the shot. In Europe, seasonal flu vaccines that contain adjuvants have mostly been given to older people, meaning scientists are not yet sure whether these vaccines have very rare side-effects, particularly in groups with weak immune systems, such as pregnant women or children under the age of three.

© Copyright © The Ottawa Citizen

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/health/H1N1+vaccine+approval+based+Belgian+trial/2140149/story.html

[Birdy]

man made genetically designed flu.

no fear mongering. no paranoia.

I can barely contain myself with these two sentences following each other! haha

Edited October 24, 2009 by Guest

[bouche]

Without consultation they went out and bought two doses of the H1N1 vaccine for each Canadia

They did? I want my 2 doses then! I wonder how much I could sell one of them for?

[jonyak]

not getting it.

[bouche]

not getting it.

come on. let's go get it together!

[Booche]

Instead, the federal drug regulator approved the pandemic vaccine based on the results of a small clinical trial conducted in Belgium.

Have you ever experienced their chocolate? Or beer?

Those fuckers dont fuck around.

[SaggyBalls]

If you get sick you'll undoubtedly pass it along to someone else and then to someone else, and so on down the line. Somewhere in that mix will fall people who aren't as healthy as you, people who could potentially die from it. Hence, why it's become so important.

That's not the reason it's 'become' important, it's the logic behind it being MADE important.

That's not a good enough reason to get a flu shot. That's a good reason for people to take better care of themselves and eat high yield foods, keep clean, and drink adequate amounts of water, replenish their bodies' minerals etc.

there's less mercury in the flu shot than there is in a tuna sandwich. modern life involves evaluating acceptable risks every hour of every day.

Do people develop severe neurological disorders or die as a direct result and within mere days of consuming tuna sandwiches? Well they sure do after getting vaccinations- and c-towns' link to the video above is a sad example of these very real dangers.

Sad how people brush off the flip side of the argument media gives us as 'conspiracy bullshit' or at least incorrect.

Although it has not been 'medically documented' that vaccinations cause autism here's an interesting tidbit...an incredibly low percentage (last I read it was zero but by now maybe it's happened once or twice) of Autistic people have never been vaccinated.

Also' date=' the amount of mercury in one sandwich compared to the mercury being injected directly into flesh/vein matters less than the delivery methods involved...and a most likely potential that there is in fact more mercury in a vaccination than in a tuna sandwich.

I'm going with Health Canada's recommendation rather than some crackpot nurse.

It seems if the science serves the interest of fearmongering and control, and/or fattening the coffers of big industry, well then its good science! if it genuinely serves the long term health and welfare of Canadians, or the greater good of the planet- their track record is fuck it.

Good Luck with that one, Booche.

I hope it doesn't come and bite you when you're aging.

I think it's a lot fairer to look at Health Canada's reputation when it comes to ensuring Canadians are prevented from being able to suffer.

When you look at specific examples such as Bovine Growth Hormone

(which took a lot of fight out of a lot of great people to be adequately regulated),

and the unfortunate incidents with Anthrax and Mad Cow Disease

(which is entirely avoidable yet Health Canada did nothing to prevent - and easily could have) then it's absolutely safe and fair to say that Health Canada is not ultimately the best example for us to follow.

Hell, look at the Canada Food Guide -

8 servings of grains? 3 protein?

They suggest lowering fat intake at every turn while overloading us with servings of grains

...that confuses our bodies even more while the soy they suggest only confuses our bodies more than that.

When it comes to the general 'take good care of yourself' messages and some initiatives that they take then Health Canada doesn't do an awful job,

but there are fundamental issues of severe negligence that has taken Health Canada down notch after notch with me

- while most Canadians wouldn't really give 2 shits about while they're worried about getting the flu.

It's the flu.

No need for a shot.

If it were gangrene or some other bacterial infection then sure. get some antibiotics.

Till then spend your time wisely on yourself.

If that time spent wisely is on a meal as advised by Health Canada,

please note that their 'vegetable and beef stir fry with rice a glass of milk and an apple for dessert'

will cause your body to overproduce counteracting enzymes to break down dense protein, dense starch, and dairy,

that - in effect - cancel one another out not only in action but in ph balance,

resulting in undigested food,

draining you of energy in digesting it and robbing you of the food value you expected to be there.

eat wisely. Spend less on groceries. Have more time energy and money to invest in yourself.

[phishtaper]

Also, the amount of mercury in one sandwich compared to the mercury being injected directly into flesh/vein matters less than the delivery methods involved...and a most likely potential that there is in fact more mercury in a vaccination than in a tuna sandwich.

this makes no sense. would you care to provide some sort of credible evidence to support whatever it is that you are actually trying to say here?

[badams]

It's the flu.

No need for a shot.

If it were gangrene or some other bacterial infection then sure. get some antibiotics.

Till then spend your time wisely on yourself.

"The study (JAMA 2002;289[2]:179-86), funded by the US Centers for Disease Control (CDC), used a new statistical model to estimate that 36 000 Americans are dying from influenza-related complications each year. The previous estimate was 20 000 deaths. An additional 11 000 mostly elderly people die annually from respiratory syncytial virus (RSV).

The estimates are "similar in Canada," says Dr. Theresa Tam, chief of respiratory disease with the Centre for Infectious Disease Prevention and Control. Canada's flu toll had been estimated at 500 to 1500 deaths annually, but after using new modelling Health Canada estimated that 700 to 2500 deaths may be attributable to influenza."

The flu can be deadly to certain age groups and individuals with certain health problems. H1N1 has shown the ability to harm people who normally wouldn't be considered at risk. Getting a shot for the normal seasonal strain or H1NI is a personal choice.

I would bet my life however that MANY more people have been saved by the flu shot over the decades than have been harmed by it.