Northern Wish Posted September 9, 2002 Report Share Posted September 9, 2002 OK people, lets have a REAL discussion...... As long as I have been a member of this community I have constantly been reminded how others view me as having an "acid tongue", or "pissing on the scene", or just negative. I certainly don't believe I offer negative opinions as my Modus Operandi, but I will certainly put in my two cents when I feel it is necessary. So my question to all of the Skanks is: Can we as a scene and community be secure enough in what we believe to embrace negative opinions? Or do we always have to dole out glowing reviews, high fives and kudos for mediocre music, behaviour, and people? Lets really hear it. Over the past month I have had more than a few incidents where I just think that this whole nice hippy thing is such a farce. That we have all become so into being what we "should be", rather than just being. Is being a part of something where you can't share your true self or opinions- really worth anything at all? As I see from posts on this board there are more than a few of us who seem to endure this crap (Luke, keep it comin buddy I love an earnest and honest opinion), and it doesn't even seem to be limited to online forums anymore. Next? Sean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondtube Posted September 9, 2002 Report Share Posted September 9, 2002 well i've been told my opinion doesn't matter cause i listen to boring hippy music when selectively criticising certain styles of music.... just be careful what you say about certain bands around here.... there is sort of a gustapo feeling around sometimes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ike Posted September 9, 2002 Report Share Posted September 9, 2002 quote:Can we as a scene and community be secure enough in what we believe to embrace negative opinions? I would hope so. quote:Is being a part of something where you can't share your true self or opinions- really worth anything at all?In my opinon, No. I think for this to be a true discussion board all opinions should be considered, even if they are negative. Although I would be interested to hear some examples of incidents that made you think that this whole nice hippy thing is such a farce? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backbacon Posted September 9, 2002 Report Share Posted September 9, 2002 I know what you'r;e talkin about, Sean. I remember a comment in regards to that very critical SCI review that I reposted from somewhere else a while back... "Isn't this genre of music and music lovers supposed to do just that. LOVE THE MUSIC PEOPLE.." Yup, wouldn't that be just dandy... everyone liking EVERYTHING. Is that to say that if there is a band that does not agree with someone or a particular concert that didn't agree with someone, said someone should keep all negative comments to themselves and save any commenting for more agreeable experiences. Perhaps overlooking less than top notch times in hopes of retaining a rose coloured perception of 'the scene' is the way to go for people... afraid once they begin to see any negative aspects, whether it be in regards to the music or the people involved, they might find themselves not being 'super stoked' to see generic noodling anymore... It does just so happen though that pretty much every band/ concert I've seen in the last couple years I have found to be quite entertaining and enjoyable. What luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaimoe Posted September 9, 2002 Report Share Posted September 9, 2002 I find the notion of " everyone liking everything " kinda frightening. I guess it's a 1984 kind of thing for me. I like and strongly dislike tons of stuff. Always have. Ask people who've know me for 20 years - the Boochards, Davey Boy and Brels. Also, I get tired of some bands and types/styles of music. Repetiveness and a lack of a fresh approach in creating music kills my ability to listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug Posted September 9, 2002 Report Share Posted September 9, 2002 It is definitely ok to have different opinions/viewpoints on any topic. Where it becomes annoying is when the person(s) expressing an opinion allow themselves to be as intolerant and ignorant as the folks they are blasting for liking something or thinking differently. I believe you can still respect somebody and have a mature conversation without having to be exactly like everone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booche Posted September 9, 2002 Report Share Posted September 9, 2002 Well, I think the negative opinions are valid, if they are valid. I usually keep that stuff to myself, because I tend to see people having a really good time, and that is what it is all about. If I dont get off at a gig/show, I am pretty quiet about it. There havent been too many in my life I went to that I thought "sucked". Maybe 3-4. I have also learned that it isnt the bands fault if I dont have a good time. It is usually a number of factors why I dont enjoy it, same as why I have a good time as well. I dont like to slam a band if I Dont get it. I really feel like I need to see them a few times, before I can truly say if a band is there or isnt there. I have seen some negative reviews in here (North Mississippi Allstar's for example) that I questioned, but I wasnt there and these reports came from people I trusted. I found them to be honest representations of what happened, and I think that is what Northern Wish is asking and hoping for. I too hope that people give us an honest viewpoint. I think Kung and others have taken some backlash for doing just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booche Posted September 9, 2002 Report Share Posted September 9, 2002 Interestingly enough, I was reminded of the following that I read last week: Long Strange Trip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h Posted September 9, 2002 Report Share Posted September 9, 2002 well maybe this board has swung pretty far the other way, but i tell you what, man, when it first started this scene was pretty intollerant to almost anyone who mentioned any band other than phish or the dead. Argue if you like, but i remember very well singing to a song on the radio once and being told i was an idiot for liking that band (ok not on the board but it was about the same thing up here - people just waiting to feel superior to others by judging their musical opinions) - it was a song on the radio for shits sake if you know what i mean... i remember one very long thread where we blasted each other for trashing everyone who opened their mouths about something else. The "your band sucks" thread ... sooooo, ya, this only happy love stuff don't wash with me either it's true - i didnt think it was that bad though... i've heard plenty of dissenting opinions that arent ganged up on. (though i was pretty persecuted for my down by the river mention as an i'll pass live song ha ha, whatever) but i like a LOT of music, so it was pretty hard for me to deal with in the beginning. Frankly at that point i thought there were a lot of sheep that wouldnt believe soemthing was cool until it was corroborated by their friends... since then we've gotten a lot of new people who like a LOT of music and i know that everybody here has listened to something they hadnt heard of before because of this board ok i'm way off track. so i guess my point is... ya, say negative things too, i'm all for it, i like it even, just make sure you arent ignorant about it. and remember that often these band members read the board too, so there are ways of saying things that wont rip their hearts out either. ****************** btw: good article reference booche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcane Posted September 9, 2002 Report Share Posted September 9, 2002 Be constructive. If you don't like something, explain what it is you don't like. Give me something to point at and say, "Oh, so that's what you mean. Now I get it." If you can't figure out or articulate the reason that you don't like something, fair enough. You're still entitled to dislike it. However, to declare that it sucks without providing an explanation for the suckage is a nothing more than an attempt to validate a subjective opinion by declaring it an objective truth. I don't have the time or the inclination to cater to that kind of arrogance. Yawn, boring, meaningless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gentlemonkey Posted September 9, 2002 Report Share Posted September 9, 2002 An opinion is like an asshole. everybody's got one. here's mine.. If an opinion isn't relayed honestly, or with true intentions i think it's totally pointless. It's great to stay positive, and focus on the good, but if something sucked badly enough that I think i need to warn people, i tend to say it sucked. that being said, it's not always worth going into.. my frustrations arise when i read opinions that I think are: - based on preconcieved notions - unfair based on personal bias - ignorant/ uninformed but i say giv'er Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarahbelle Posted September 9, 2002 Report Share Posted September 9, 2002 hmmmmmmm.... well this is a very good conversation! I know for myslef, I am not afraid to be negitive.. there are a few bands that I have heard and I just didn't like em.. LIke everyone has been saying... it is all a matter of opinion. But this ties in with a question I have been thinking about for a while... Do we mold the scene.. or does the scene mold us? One more thing.. I think everyone is genuinly nice in the community. I don't think people have to try because we are all so tight.. ya know??? Cheers.. Sarah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleB Posted September 9, 2002 Report Share Posted September 9, 2002 FYI...... The Following things STILL suck! 1. Parking tickets 2. last call 3. NSync 4. Dave Matthews 5. Toronto Maple Leafs 6. neo-hippy, love everyone poserism 7. the bayou 8. pickles 9. wet farts 10. coyote mornings 11. survivor 12. when the filter comes out in your mouth and oh yeah.... can't forget the Bare Naked Ladies... yup they still suck to... I truly hope I have offended somebody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcane Posted September 9, 2002 Report Share Posted September 9, 2002 But I like pickles ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcane Posted September 9, 2002 Report Share Posted September 9, 2002 Okay, I get it. More pickles for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h Posted September 9, 2002 Report Share Posted September 9, 2002 i like survivor. ha ha i do though ha i watch that and sometimes big brother too ... so screw you bb! you have offended me. (arcane y'know where bb keeps his pickles eh? i wouldn't like them either) ha (i'm just kidding really) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcane Posted September 9, 2002 Report Share Posted September 9, 2002 Hmm, now you're naming specific pickles, h. At that point, the scientific part of my head has to admit that I have no idea if I like them or not. On the other hand, I have a pretty good supply in stock, metaphorically speaking. I don't really need to go to the store for more. Mind you, if I happen to see a good sale ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velvet Posted September 9, 2002 Report Share Posted September 9, 2002 Back in '83 or so I was a huge Thriller fan. Couldn't say so though 'cuz all my friends were on the obligatory "Micheal sucks" train. Sure I'm older now and I don't care if people know that I like Loverboy, but the attitude still stings a bit. We are a collective of shared likes, and that's good. We are not a collective of shared dislikes, and I think that too is positive. I think when we say something sucks, we're talking more about ourselves than what we're are criticising. Just like the pickles thing. Is BB or Arcane talking about pickles, or are they talking about themselves? I try not to openly criticise things I'm not a part of (which is why, when I think nero sucks, I put it in the logs; I feel I'm a part of it and therefore have no problem publicly saying so). Why don't I criticise bands publicly? Few reasons: 1) What Bouche said - maybe they didn't suck as much as I wasn't in the mood for what they were doing. 2) I'm a bit too shy to tell people I don't know in a forum situation that much about my personal tastes. 3) maybe the band sucks now, but maybe they'll be great next time. I'm here to share, not to argue. All that being said, I agree totally. I am usually thrilled to see criticism on this board. just for fun... Things I like that you probably think suck: Loverboy Barenaked Ladies (these guys are amazing) Bob Wiseman's singing Patsy Cline Philip Glass Yoko Ono (am I really the only one?) The Tragically Hip Iz (Hawai'in ukelele music) Nirvana (wow) Lyle Lovett (I remember lots of ignorance on this board about him a while ago) And just to stir things up (and contradict myself), what the big deal with Charlie Hunter? Playing two instruments at once is a gimmick and takes away from both instruments. Another little question to make this more interesting: Who was the better songwriter, and who was more important to our world, John Lennon or Kurt Cobain? I disagree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booche Posted September 9, 2002 Report Share Posted September 9, 2002 quote:Yoko Ono (am I really the only one?) Umm, the only one I know of. I guess the only reason I think she sucks is that the media forced me to believe she broke up the Beatles. I was young and very impressionable, but that thought/idea has been engrained in my lil'ole'head for a long time. Hey, maybe they were wrong, and she doesnt suck. Maybe she is a talented artist? I wouldnt know though, the only thing I am familiar with is Revolution #9, and I dont get that in the slightest........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Wish Posted September 9, 2002 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2002 Agreed on BNL. I saw them live on a whim back at the Landmark in 95, before a Hip show the next night and it sold me forever. Jazz, improv, rock, and most importantly- FUN! S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h Posted September 9, 2002 Report Share Posted September 9, 2002 why would anyone think patsy cline sucked? i enjoy yoko interviews. i'm pretty unfamiliar with her work though, but i dont think i'm into the screeching... i saw a recent interview where they asked her about bnls be my yoko ono song. i enjoyed her response. i have always been under the impression that bnl are very talented musicians and just nice guys. i dont know about the loverboy thing though ?? everybody knows i love lyle. but who doesnt like a ukelele? and i'm not touching the lennon Cobain thing with a 10 foot pole. (theres a 10 foot pole in the nba now isnt there?) heres something though, ever noticed that sometimes at these gigs the solo parts where people are oozing about how "genius" somebody is are often at the easier parts to play? (sometimes even just a pedal effect?) that they're just crowd pleasing sounds? but the wickedly hard parts to play get a little lost ? i find that genius word gets thrown around a whole lot ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Low Roller Posted September 9, 2002 Report Share Posted September 9, 2002 I agree with Velvet about Nirvana. They kicked my ass right from the start before I even knew what "getting your ass kicked" really meant. I listened to them rather religiously because everything else bored me to tears (in my defense I had no idea who the Dead or Phish were, but even if I did, I don't think I would've understood the music back then.) To compare Lennon with Cobain? That's a whole seperate topic onto itself Velvet. Suffice to say they were both revolutionary voices in their respective eras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleB Posted September 9, 2002 Report Share Posted September 9, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Velvet: I think when we say something sucks, we're talking more about ourselves than what we're are criticizingExactly what the list was meant to illustrate.... some choices are easy to agree with some are not..... but they are all personal choices... not commandments! Cheers to those with enough taste to dislike, enough intelligence to articulate and enough courage to share.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieDon'tSurf Posted September 9, 2002 Report Share Posted September 9, 2002 quote: Originally posted by h: (theres a 10 foot pole in the nba now isnt there?) i find that genius word gets thrown around a whole lot ... ...sure thing h, but that comment is wicked genius I tells ya!! quote: Originally posted by Velvet: Another little question to make this more interesting: Who was the better songwriter, and who was more important to our world, John Lennon or Kurt Cobain? I disagree with you. i'm sure you do, but that makes you wronger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancingfool Posted September 9, 2002 Report Share Posted September 9, 2002 I make distinctions between something I don't like, and something that isn't good. Things I don't like musically: REM, BNL Pirate Ship and beyond, Nickelback (my girlfriend does, so I checked them out), Michael Jackson; at least I can recognise there's reasonable quality playing and singing, it just doesn't grab me or talk of experiences which I have had or want to have. Things that aren't good musically: The Portsmouth Sinfonia, that guitar duo opening for Drums and Tuba one time (bradm can confirm), Florence Foster-Jenkins, most actors, Mitsou; there's just no talent here. Then there's stuff I haven't yet fully grokked but that's because of not enough exposure; Zappa, Dead, Phish... And stuff I do like that many can't stand... Legendary Stardust Cowboy (only one song, but supposedly that's representative enough), Phillip Glass (I'm not alone here), bagpipes (when well tuned - cf. Enter the Haggis), early Enya, middle-eastern music, rajas (India is not the middle east), early Tangerine Dream, Vangelis... bradm can testify I'm eclectic. Plus tons of stuff in the middle of the road which I like for one song or some strange reason, and can sing along on the radio to too... I rarely post a show review because a) I'm rarely at shows, I don't know enough of what the band was trying to do most of the time to be able to judge if they achieved it, c) have the proper vocabulary to describe what I see on stage as d) I'm usually too deep into dancing. Though if I don't dance, it doesn't mean I'm not into the music... For example, the Low Tide group was nice on Friday, but I couldn't understand a single word of the lyrics. I always have problems with lyrics, though, so I don't feel I can say anything about that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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