Question of our lives (and of the day)?

[MarcO]

quote:

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Originally posted by dancingfool:

Things that aren't good musically: The Portsmouth Sinfonia, that guitar duo opening for Drums and Tuba one time (bradm can confirm), Florence Foster-Jenkins, most actors, Mitsou; there's just no talent here.

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(sigh)...Mitsou....mmmm....bye bye mon cowboy....I love her....

[dancingfool]

MarcO: I once saw a documentary on her, and they had a shot of her in her home studio recording; without 'enhancements' (to her voice! her voice!! ), she's horrible. The sound engineer is a marvel. She's not. I stand by my original statement.

[MarcO]

She sang???

[kung]

I must say this seems like a fairly tolerant and understanding discussion. I don't know if it's representative of how people actually react when faced with criticism objective or otherwise. I seem to remember someone telling me to shove a 9 iron up my ass on this board recently. I also had the Evolve promoters intervene with the editors at Jambase and pull a mildly mildly critical review in place of an awfully written press release. That pisses me off to no end. Now I could worry about what people will think of me if I do what my conscience dictates or I can just act....

Here's a thought when Dylan went electric what were people booing at? Alot, Marcus Greil's 'Old, Weird America' deals with the issue at length. One thing he does say is that by not playing the seemingly objective anthems (Blowin' in the Wind) that had defined the generation and instead going completely subjective through compositions that veered (Ballad of A thin man) he was in effect saying everything that you believe in is bullshit. If your whole life is peace, love and flowers ('the answer my friend') then a sneering 'you know something is happening but you don't know what it is' comes off like fuck everything you believe in. I guess I mean if you derive value, meaning or your sense of your self in any way from the scene then an affront to the scene is an affront to your character.

[treyter]

hey kung! that was me that prescribed a 9-iron! the placement was up to you tho???

you're obviously not a bowler.

i honestly hope that you aren't holding some sort of grudge over anything i've ever said on here...that'd be a shame. what was that 9-iron thing about anyhow??? i forgot. just a shot i'm sure...maybe i was surly and having a shitty day...maybe not? i think spite and grudge-holding is lame. i like the idea that kung can take and give the good and the bad, and gives a fuck who knows it...i do, however, question whether or not he's pulling our collective chain sometimes. it's fun that way. i am by no means a "if you got nothing nice to say, say nothing at all" guy...fuck go for it dude, and if someone tries to slam you for it, slam'em back. support your argument if you are serious....don't if you are just fucking with the person or do if you can support your bullshit lines...arguing can definitely be fun and engaging...it's impressive to see people feeding off raw emotion...i personally find that it works much better in person than over a pair of wires. there's much more to that game....body language is cool. that's the thing about this online shit...intentions can be deceptive and easily misunderstood.

saying nasty shit about bands/forum members/websites can be fun. it can be hurtful too if you really mean it. it can also be dismissive, because everyone is different, shit works for others that doesn't for you.

i like to think that most people on here don't really want to hurt a bands feelings or another members feelings--it seems as though people are looking out for others in here. nobody wants a friend to be bummed out because of a shitty show...and nobody wants to bum someone out for a good show before it even happens. maybe that's why we seem to be so eager to praise bands/experiences....we understand that just because "i" didn't get it, doesn't mean that it won't work for someone else..."it didn't really hit me, but maybe it'll put Indika on his ass"

i think it's respectful to let people decide for themselves....by giving glaringly nasty criticisms about a band to a friend who respects you, you can count on them going to the show and coming out dissapointed...either that or they'll look at you like you're a fucking idiot...at the same time overhyping a band may do just the same.

i think gentlemonkey is right when he says it's about intentions...if you seriously intend to ward off people from seeing a band because you honestly think they were a waste of your time, then so be it, just make sure it wasn't you being unreceptive (ie: too high or drunk/vice versca, too much traffic, or some stinky wookie's in your way--or maybe you're just a bitch?)....if you were genuinely blown away by a band or experience then giving up some props to what that situation made you feel is honourable too.

just remember that everyone is different, and open to different things. take a look at Kung--i mean he actually likes 9-irons up his ass?!!

personally i tend not to bitch about bands much...if i don't like them, i just don't go to their shows.

but hey, if you HAVE to bitch, then be a good bitch, and bitch good

[Guest Low Roller]

We got ourselves a Runner!!

"The scene" is a strange beast and varying opinions are inherent with a large group of people. That's to be expected, and in fact should be necessary to ensure the evolution of the scene through discussion.

The Internet is becoming a very cynical place since everybody has been given an easy medium for criticising anything they want. There are a lot of boards out there where people post shit just for fun and needlessly flame people, because they know that they will never run into one another.

This board (and jamhub) are different in the sense they are not our primary source of contact but more like a way of trading stories from last night's show, plan upcoming events, or download material related to the scene. It's a medium to propagate and evolve the scene, and not a medium to flame it. Even if this board is populated by fairly reasonable people, willing to accept conflicting opinions, when faced with a challeng to their wisdom, they may end up taking offence and fight back.

There is nothing wrong with presenting a conflicting opinion, but where the problem arises is with the lack of tact when presenting opinions that may ripple calm water. Opinions (especially negative ones) need to be very carefully crafted so they don't seem critical or insulting.

Although I don't remember any of the negative opinions in question, the most likely reason for the backlash was the way they were presented and not the actual opinion itself.

Present an opinion and make sure to leave it open for discussion and not state a negative opinion as set-in-stone fact. People will be more receptive to an open-ended anti-conformal statement than something along the lines of "Your favorite band sucks".

And remember Everyone's Got Opinions (E.G.O.), you just got to know how to best present them.

[Davey Boy 2.0]

I don't think that there are many people on this board who would slam someone's opinion, no matter how negative, as long as it's objective and well thought-out.

I've seen boards that are filled with subjective, angry messages that simply slag off a band or a band's performance. This type of thing just turns my stomach and in the end diminishes the board, it's users and it's audience.

[gentlemonkey]

quote:

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Originally posted by secondtube:

well i've been told my opinion doesn't matter cause i listen to boring hippy music when selectively criticising certain styles of music....

just be careful what you say about certain bands around here....

there is sort of a gustapo feeling around sometimes...

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WHOA~~!! I didn't see this..are you referring to the comment i made about you only digging dead-related music??

[Booche]

I believe x-lax and a casserole dish were included as well. I never understood the 9 iron until Kung figured he was supposed to stick it up the ole corn-pipe but that didnt make any sense to me. Based on the other incredients, it looked like an 'exit-only party'

The 9 iron may have been used as a stir sitck, but that is a weak explanation.

Speaking of which, I want to change the POG's name from Passed Out Guy to Passed Out Wookie, anyone that saw him this weekend will know why.

He is way more a POW than a POG.

[Velvet]

I think Kung is on to a whole new area of website content - post reviews! Good call.

Hey DF, surely you've heard Zappa's "Dancing Fool"!?!

[Jaimoe]

Hey Kung. You called Greil Marcus, Marcus Griel.

[dancingfool]

quote:

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Originally posted by Velvet:

Hey DF, surely you've heard Zappa's "Dancing Fool"!?!

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You look at my name, you look at my avatar, YOU tell ME.

Though I guess it was an obvious choice of "music I like many others don't", except many in here do...

[show---whore]

you know what's fucking stupid is having a post everyweek about people bitching about the scene "the scene is this" "the scene is that " the scene is moving along just dandy. but i due have an issue with the scene. there are a butch of us out here that put alot of time and hard work in the scene but, when we ask for a little help there are only a few people (3 from this board) that are willing to help, but there always enuff people around to bitch about how the scene should be.

[treyter]

to be honest shane, it's alot to ask sometimes for people to even make it out to the shows on a regular basis. everyone has lives, businesses to run, families to take care of etc.

sitting up here on this board like you're holier than thou because you don't work an 80 hr work week like some of us, and have some time to contribute, is preposterous.

chill out dude.

we all do what we can.

[show---whore]

im not asking for much i all i asked is that you could find time to mail ONE CD so i could put together a package to send to the U.S. and got 3 reply's from people. your fucked man what that's 5 mins of your time, and what do you know about my work week fuck head i only asked for help because i don't have time to do my self and this could be a great thing for the scene that you like to TALK about so much. it would take less work then you posting your thought s on the scene DUDE. there's guy alot of talk going on. and thats all it is talk.

[Phil McCraken]

quote:

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preposterous

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Good word dude! He might be partially right. Then again, I could be partially wrong. You do seem to find lots of time to bitch about shit. Get back to your cable-ing!

[treyter]

yeah dude there is alot of talk going on...

let me explain this to you as simply as i can shane: there are alot of people that would love to help promote shows (and not just send out a cd)...in fact i have a friend who was trying do do such things (band/scene promotions) very recently...unfourtunatly someone from YOUR organization put the ky-bash on that due to personal issues...i won't name names dude (u know who the fuck i'm talking about) but this certain friend of mine was told that if he were to promote a show he would lose a friend forever. so you tell me, when your organization is trying to dominate this scene predatorily, why the fuck would anyone want to help you out, when they get denied when they offer their expertise in a way they WANT to help out???

you attrack more beez with honey than you do with shit.

fuckhead.

[Northern Wish]

OK the only question I have is that if these Canadian bands, can't seem to find airplay anywhere with their current studio albums- what radio station is really going to play the live versions.

For one thing, despite our great efforts at recording shows in a HQ format..... The levels between shows vary greatly, from the actual recording levels, to one persons opinion of the quality of a show. These things would prevent any reputable radio station from airing them.

Secondly, when it comes down to it- live music as we see it is all about jams. But what radio station on earth is going to play my favorite 22 minute Lemondust. It doesn't even have lyrics.

You send me your address, I'll send you my favorite nero show. And then you let me know when and where to tune in. I'd love for it to happen, but the reality is that I doubt it will.

Sean

[show---whore]

listen FUCK HEAD i have nothing to do with whatever goes on up in O-town so don't act like im living next door to ya. i don't get involed in personal issues like you. You little Jerry Springer Bitch all you want to do stir shit up. you don't like to put in your place do ya.

quote:

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support your argument if you are serious

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is that what your last post is about or are you just saying shit because your fucked!! now you bring something up thats 6hrs away from me and has nothing to do with me.

quote:

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saying nasty shit about bands/forum members/websites can be fun. it can be hurtful too if you really mean it.

quote:

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so now you didn't mean this.

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either that or they'll look at you like you're a fucking idiot...

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this quote makes cent to me about you.

i don't think that this is the place to start bring up such bullshit that doesn't invole me or you shit brick!

i bet there's more then one side to that story.

[show---whore]

Northern Wish

im not sending music to top 40 stations i was given a list of contacts that has 9 stations that have jambands radio shows i would think that in these shows there play full 22 mins of jams or way would they be looking for live jamband music. we even have a jamband show in ont. that plays full songs its called LIVE ART.

[treyter]

almost all of those quotes are out of context Shane. go back and re-read that shit man.

As far as "putting me in my place" dude, go for it. i think i made a succinct point here today, but i will apologize...it wasn't necessarily intended to come out the way it did, or directed at you personally at all. i'm not one to hold back punches when the shit starts to hit the fan man, and that's why i get myself in trouble. i'll take the brunt for saying shit no-one else wants to, because i put myself in these retarded situations upon my own volition.

let me say this: i am not up here undermining what you and the select few do to bring this great music to our towns. that is not what i'm trying to do. if that's what is coming out, then sorry man. i truly appreciate your guys hard work. in fact, i work hard to make as much expendable income as possible to spend on the shows your organization promotes, and a number of other organizations promote--in fact the more the merrier for me...spread it around. it's all good that way.

initially my point was that not everyone has the time to invest in this scene that you guys obviously do, and making us who don't feel like shit about it sucks, and is uncalled for.

quote:

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to be honest shane, it's alot to ask sometimes for people to even make it out to the shows on a regular basis. everyone has lives, businesses to run, families to take care of etc.

sitting up here on this board like you're holier than thou because you don't work an 80 hr work week like some of us, and have some time to contribute, is preposterous.

chill out dude.

we all do what we can

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look at my signature line right now dude...there's something there.

maybe the holier than thou thing was harsh...sorry Shane...just trying to get my point across as to how you were making me feel.

now about bringing up shit that doesn't involve me or you: you do have a point. it really doesn't have much to do with the way you operate dude. i don't know you very well, and have no idea about how shit is run within your branch. I guess I lumped it all together. it really has nothing to do with me other than the fact that i have friends who call me and email me about feeling mistreated, and slighted (both personally and professionally). now what i said about that person being unable to do what he wanted (ie. throw a party or promote his own show) is what i believed to be true at the time (still do)....unless i have 5 friends lying to me about the same thing? maybe i do. maybe ALL my friends are lying, and i'm completely way off base?....either way i think that someone being told what they can and can't do is bogus and that's essentially why that came out. All of that that must be discussed, and you are right---here is not the place-my mistake. Over a few beers, with ALL people involved would be appropriate IMO. Christ I wasn't involved but i guess i am now? i dunno...i tried for so long not to get into it either which is a fucking kick in the ass. sometimes someone's gotta say something, and i do have a big mouth.

i tend to get a little fiery when i feel that my point has been missed, or basically just been shat upon. I'm sure you feel the same way. I understand that you just asked for a cd this time, but you made it sound like nobody has any interest in spreading the scene (and this is not the first time you've made this statement on this board) which is untrue. I was supporting that argument essentially...that there are people here that want to do things. there really are. they might not necessarily have access to a good burner, or high quality canjam stuff....i thought you of all people would have that stuff on file...there are other things that people can do though, and want to do. however, it is commendable that you were trying to get people involved, but what's the big deal about only a few people taking the bait? i don't get it. you have to admit you were pretty harsh on the board. like i said before, you can catch more beez with honey....

There are many incidents I know of, of people being held back from doing things they want to do, or being able to work in conjunction with others because of ego, personal conflicts, etc. etc.? i don't know exactly all of the reasons, but it is happening...this isn't just any one person, or entity, or you for that matter....to point out your organization was an error in judgement I'd say. I pulled that one problem out (and it wasn't about hamilton or anything but the scenario was relevent to the point i was defending) because it was on the top of my head at the time. it was in the moment. it could have been a number of different things from a number of different sources....happened to be talking with you at the time. again...it wasn't appropriate and really doesn't/shouldn't reflect on the way you conduct your business.

I apologize Shane I didn't intend to lump you into the horrendous bullshit that i keep hearing is going on. i used our conversation to bust out something that i probably shouldn't have in retrospect. but we all know how that goes....hindsight is always 20/20.

so....where do we go from here? now that that is out in the open, maybe it'll be an incentive to get everyone to chill the fuck out and meet and get these problems worked out...maybe it won't??? i don't know, but i do know what i'm rooting for. equality, and a more professional ethic and understanding to our little business scene within this scene. there is alot of room for people to contribute in their own way, and there is alot of room for improvement in helping out one another contribute in these specific forms.

Hood

[h]

no chris, you were completely right in your post really.

he is a high profile member of an organization that plays dirty pool and expects not to get dirty.

Ofcourse we all know that shane is a good guy with good intentions, really - but frankly location is completely irrelevant.

we've all tried to stay out of it officially, but that organization goes way out of their way to hinder efforts of others to promote the precious scene. whereas nobody goes out of their way to stop them from promoting themselves mostly and the scene secondly.

and im not a fuckhead for saying so, its the simple truth.

so whatever, this mellow drama seems to have been going on one sided for what seems like forever now, its very tired and should end.

btw, i dont remember seeing the request for cds on this board, did i miss that?

[treyter]

thanks H i was starting to wonder if i was all alone here.

It's wonderful to have some support, and I appreciate that you have the guts to stand up and say what you think, especially after that pathetic, and childish display of name calling we all witnessed. that shit is strictly grade school IMO.

You are very solid H. I respect you 100%.

[Ms.Huxtable]

This thread has brought tears to my eyes and I am shaking with anger right now. People that I care about so much arguing over something that is not the actual issue. There are some things that should finally be said.

Dearest Shane, some of the words in your old signature strike a bad chord with a lot of folks. It may not be you personally, but rather your associates that the indifference you are experiencing is directed to. I have no doubt that you have nothing to do with all this crappy Nugget-egomaniac, credit hungry, evil-thinking, threat-pushing insanity that is happening.

There are things going down that make a lot of people feel really bad, not towards the scene but towards a person or two in particular. It boggles my brain that we have let one bad apple deteriorate this scene. One person who claims to be helping it so much. I think in general, those people that need their name plastered all over the place, and need recognized for every little effort are not supporting the scene the way that they think they are. There are hundreds of people out there doing their part in big and small ways anonymously and without any need for credit at all.

Take a look at the Watchtower. Instead of a description hyping the band, only the damn promoter is mentioned. Since when does a promoter take precedent over the bands he is promoting? Bands work awfully hard and it takes a lot of effort to put on a show. I think a certain someone feels they do more than the actual bands and everyone should know it. And as far as his attitude towards this very site that means so much to so many, wouldn't a promoter prefer to collaborate with as many resources as possible to get people out to the show? Especially this site that reaches so many wonderful people and has good, caring people at it's helm, people that do it for the right reasons. Instead of collaboration, there is anomosity and jealousy. There is so much pettiness happening. So much childish behaviour and manipulation. It's wearing thin.

Power-hunger aside, there are compounding issues to all of this. Personal things that should have been dropped a year ago. A person who makes threats and calls people names and generally makes people feel like shit. Anger that should have been kept to themselves instead of being spread like a virus throughout this entire community. We can not let this behaviour get us down on the scene. Take it for what it is worth, an angry person that is out for vengeance, and do not accept it. I hear so many people TALKING about how they hate what is happening, but we are all such friendly, non-confrontational people that we will put up with it and put up with it until it destroys our scene. I say stand up for what is right. If this behaviour bothers you..SAY SO!!! I know I'll probably look like a shit for actually posting what so many are saying on a daily basis, but like Treytor and H, I have to finally say what is on my mind. It upsets me that this forum has so many threads with hidden innuendoes and the amount of anger that is present here as of late is saddening. It does no one good.

I want peace more than anything else. And sometimes some shit has to be said to get it.

My easy-going nature has allowed me to stand back and watch things happen that I shouldn't tolerate. I think a lot of us are doing that these days. If something is unacceptable to us, why do we put on fake smiles and accept it or act indifferent? I am struggling with myself these days because part of me wants to be my normal, peaceful and non-confrontational self and another part of me has almost had enough of this and doesn't know what to do to end all of the bad vibes. I know a lot of you don't understand what is happening out here, and believe me I am at my breaking point with this as well. I am sorry to bring this up, but perhaps if we finally talk about the REAL issue here, innocent people associated with this scene can stop feeling like crap over something they have nothing to do with. I invite you to please air your thoughts. Get them out there and close this tiresome issue. I know I am not the only one who feels this way, and I am taking a risk by putting myself out here so if you feel the same way (and I know you do) please show your support on this thread. There is only one person that has to change his attitude (or at least keep it to himself) to bring peace, but all of us have allowed the behaviour to exist for so long and it is therefore up to all of us to end it.

I want more than anything for everyone to get along. The truth is that not everyone can, but there has got to be a way for this bad vibe to disappear so that those people not involved in the crap don't have to feel it.

[LJFH]

I don't really know a lot about what is going on with this whole situation, but I have seen enough bad stuff posted on this site lately, that I NEVER thought I would have seen and frankly turns me off the whole idea of a Scene.

IMO, there shouldn't be a "SCENE" because to me, even the fact that we have a term for the musical interests and bands that we admire makes me a little uncomfortable. I am all for supporting the bands that I like...by going to their shows, telling my friends, and just enjoying the groove. But as for suporting a Scene or one specific site or group, I just don't get it. This "scene" is supposed to be about peace, caring, love and friendship all while enjoying the kick-ass jams that these bands honor us with...but, lately all I have been seeing is anger, hurt, spitefulness and just general rediculous behaviour.

If we LOVE this SCENE as much as we say we do, then why not put differences, ambitions, and opinions aside and truly get together to make the whole thing better. There is no reason why everyone can't do this?? Does this make any sense?