Heady setlist?

[paisley]

its not right you got called names wavin'... everyone is entitled to their opinion and different people at the same show will always receive it differently... zero didn't rest a lot and its an empassioned subject to him but I still feel he was overboard on this one

as with other folks, my first show in a club didn't blow me away entirely, though I enjoyed it... its something I've acquired a love for over more listens... as you said, with bands like this there's shows and there's shows, some introduce you to god and some just are a good night out

see you tonight (sorta since I don't know who ya are) and hope you have a good show

and for that matter!! see everyone tonight!! :: ::

[zero]

Paisley is right I didn't get a lot of rest and it is a subject I am passionate about. I could make a very comprehensive case and will after tonight. I apologize to Dick in the Wind. We have to be able to make these mistakes and own up to them. Meggo is right to be offended but the sentiment I was expressing is valid although poorly expressed. The My Morning Jacket song Golden comes to mind: 'People often told me, that bars are dark and lonely and talk is cheap as smoke that fills the air.' My point is that while we share a great deal as a community and musically we are not necessarily peers. The Slip are my peers and my friends. I looked long and hard and found them. One only runs across a peer every so often and cling to them when you find them. They are your equal and your mirror.

[meggo]

now that is more like it... thanks for putting it in more reasonable terms.

[wavinginthewind]

sorry captain zero but apology not accepted. normally, i might accept your apology but i've been hanging around in a skidbag bar all afternoon, with my peers, and i've gotten a good drunk on. I'm sure you can relate to that. i wonder what its' like not to have many 'peers' that can relate to your intelligence, sounds lonely.

so maestro, have a good show tonight. i look forward to listening to your 'comprehensive case '.

[Douglas]

we're all arswipes once in awhile...myself included. ya know...the "internet ricky" is always there to take our abuse. Yet sometimes we forget that our friends/good people read what we write and may not be in the same state of mind we are. It's always good to have a friend around to hug you/tell you to fark off. Too bad there isn't a secondary internet to spew off on once in awhile...I sure could have used th.d............crap, hangh on......liser has got a rhyme.....

[wavinginthewind]

did you just call me an internet rickey? that's it, it's go time..............JUDO CHOP!!!!!!

[Douglas]

Bring on the hurricane wavin'!

dickwad!!! hahahah!!!

[zero]

The comprehensive case is all about TASTE. See also CLASS.

[wavinginthewind]

TASTE

1. To distinguish the flavor of by taking into the mouth.

2. The sense of what is proper, seemly, or least likely to give offense in a given social situation.

3. A personal preference or liking

okay i can see that, especially numer 1

CLASS

1.A group of students who are taught together because they have roughly the same level of academic development.

2. A set, collection, group, or configuration containing members regarded as having certain attributes or traits in common; a kind or category

3. A social stratum whose members share certain economic, social, or cultural characteristics

4. Social rank or caste

mmmm..... thanks for clearing that up. now it all makes sense.

so your personal preference or liking for distinguishing flavours by taking into the mouth, containing members regarded as having certain attributes or traits, is of a social rank or caste of it's own.

Thank you mayor of the 4th dimension your definitely in a class of your own.

see irony. see also ego

[zero]

Oh fu©k right off. You're obviously presuming that because I get lippy and say unreasonable things from time to time that I lack a valid perspective. If you really want me to make a logical, sound, well reasoned argument I will but let's be honest you aren't really capable of debating the merits of this or that are you?

Here's what I figure. You are likely rooted in a paradigm of jam music (the Phish, moe's, nero's etc.) that takes forward momentum and long winded jamming as it's model. The Slip may lack in some regards that unified segue into segue into segue sound (although they really aren't lacking it at all) because they model their sound more around a jazz aesthetic. They spend a great deal of time and care crafting their songs and setlists and are constantly tinkering. Taste then is their discerning palette for mixing strongly focused songs and ballads, spirited improvisations and textural sonics. They don't play too many notes and they don't play too few. Realize that musicians know when other musicians are playing harmonic clams, when they are doing uninspired derivative vamping, it is seen as a crutch. This sort of 'go nowhere' jamming (from a jazz perspective) is considered highly derivative and overly facile. Instead The Slip like any good jazz or avant garde ensemble are trading around concepts in a largely intuitive and telepathic way, playing off of tone, timbre, texture, feel, time, pitch or volume. This is what distinguishes them as having taste and class.

If you are not going to bother to try and come up with a decent response don't waste all of our time. It is your ego that is bruised here and that is your motivation.

[Spudly]

I like sprinkles on my doughnuts.

[wavinginthewind]

Finally! That's what i was looking for, your OPINION as to why you thought the show was so great and why i didn't.

Agian we'll look past your assumptions of what kind of person you think i am, and i will try to explain my OPINION of MY experience of the show.

I am rooted in the paradigm (type) of music that inspires and invokes an intellectual, emotional, spritial and therefore, physical response. It doesn't matter if it is the 'intellectual' stlyings of a jazz master or a 3 chord vamp of some local bar band. Experiencing music that expresses itself honestly by taking risk and locking into a symbiotic realationship with the artist, the audience and the moment is what allows me to have that release that i get from music. You know that moment when your listening to music where everything is just perfect, it's getting you off like some lost love. where the realities of your daily life fade away and you connect to the universal energy that fills you with absolute joy and happiness. When I attend a music performance i try not to look into the mechanics of what's being played and try to just give myself to the music. when the 'moment' doesn't happen, then i try to as objectivatly as possible, look at what is preventing me from achieving it.

So for MY taste, i thought that the slip, while definatly highly skilled musicians, didn't connect the material in a way that allowed for a cohesive experience. The vocals were not distictive and very muddled, though i blamed it on the mix. I definatly heard some sloppiness in the rhythm, not that they weren't good, but there were moments when they didn't lock. And some of the material was a little too lite or mellow for MY taste. There were moments when they were jamming that i thought that i was at a string cheese show. more so in the overall tone and timbre of the jam, not in the skill of what was being played. what really stuck out in my head was the cover 19th nervous breakdown. I really didn't see how with all the intellectual snobbery floating around, that you could say this was any better than any other band i've heard cover the stones.

i've seen the slip a few times now and continue to go see them because the come so highly recommend from from a scene of music lover that i love and respect. I guess as our little community grows, there is bound to be some division of taste. diversity can be the spice of life.

my ego is not bruised, i was merely looking for someone elses OPINION as to why they thought the show was inspiring. that was my motivation. though i admit that after you called me a 'nob-gobbler' things got a lillte diverted.

[wavinginthewind]

psssttt sprinkles!!!! don't you know that the true mastery of a doughnut comes from the covering of the entire doughnut is a sugary glaze. realize that a doughnut baker knows when a doughnut baker is trying to cover up an inferior type doughnut with colourfull little sprinkles.

your proablly the kind of guy how goes to tim hortons, with their precooked, bland doughnuts. you are not allowed to have an opinion on the quailty of doughnuts until you can call a cordon bleu doughnut master your peer

[zero]

It's not as if I am dissecting this all verbatim as it happens. These are mainly sober or relatively sober second thoughts.

This sentiment defines the Slip to a tee:

I am rooted in the paradigm (type) of music that inspires and invokes an intellectual, emotional, spritial and therefore, physical response. It doesn't matter if it is the 'intellectual' stlyings of a jazz master or a 3 chord vamp of some local bar band. Experiencing music that expresses itself honestly by taking risk and locking into a symbiotic realationship with the artist, the audience and the moment is what allows me to have that release that i get from music. You know that moment when your listening to music where everything is just perfect, it's getting you off like some lost love. where the realities of your daily life fade away and you connect to the universal energy that fills you with absolute joy and happiness. When I attend a music performance i try not to look into the mechanics of what's being played and try to just give myself to the music. when the 'moment' doesn't happen, then i try to as objectivatly as possible, look at what is preventing me from achieving it.

What makes the Slip so highly engaging and why they deliver on a level that is both more visceral, instantaneous, auspicious and cerebral is their approach to the stage- their INTENTION. They have a gracious approach that comes from a great deal of contemplative conservation of vital energies. These guys do not run themselves ragged, they rest, eat well, rarely drink at least to excess. They are in it for the sheer vital joy of the present moment. I suspect that you were not in a receptive mind set or setting because on another occasion, as has happened with many others, you might have 'gotten it'. You might not have gotten it or you may not have wanted, even if unconsciously, to get it. Many bands in the improvisational arena take their fans to ecstatic heights but they do so in a highly irresponsible way by ignoring the basic ground. The basic ground is that life is impermanent and full of suffering. Bliss or the experience of it depends on the phenomena of the watcher, watching yourself have a good time, it is often something more like self-hypnosis. But what goes up must come down and then you are again like a black rock in the ocean, which leads many to depression, anxiety and self medication to alleviate both. The Slip do not ignore the basic ground, they mirror the futility and impermanence of life in their performances and in that way are highly generous for the gifts of musical education and adoration they receive.

[wavinginthewind]

i am happy that there is music in the world that can give people hope and meaning.

I honestly think that the reason I 'don't get it' is becuase i am not that familar with the matirial and therefore can really attach to it in any meaningful way.

sugarmegs, please don't go. every opinion is a valid point of veiw. there is no such thing as a wrong opinion

[Spudly]

Waving: A beautiful, articulate response to an impossible to defend personal attack on your personal perception. atta boy!

Zero: Don't get soft on me now. I didn't come here for Kung-Lite, I want the full strength, in your face, bitch slappin, pimpin illogical egocentric rants! that last post was weak. We have enough articulate critics here.

Meghan: To "take a vacation" implies that you live here. It's alot less aggravating if you simply stop by for a visit to have a laugh at the human condition and then go back to the real world where 99.9% of us are thoughtful, loving, caring individuals who respect boundaries and know in our hearts that we are all imperfect and beautifully dysfunctional people with a wide range of opinions and tastes and are OK with that.

Without the devil, there is no god!

[zero]

Or maybe this is what happens:

1. A great many people are invigorated by the richness that The Slip brings to their lives.

2. A closed minded or wilfuly blind person discredits this richness.

3. An overly emotional and sensitive critic defends his musical idols and close friends.

4. Misperceptions abound.

5. No one is held accountable for their own perceptions.

6. Someone named Meg who thinks she has it all figured out comes to entirely the wrong conclusion(s).

7. Someone takes their ball and goes home.

[c-towns]

I feel the need to tell you that you should spend less time behind these internet personas and get out into the real world and find love again, maybe then you won't sound like such a bitter, empty, old man.

just another low brau thought running through my empty head.

[tatterdemalion]

hmm...all I have to say is that I can not be bothered with threads like this anymore. Instead of actually reading it I am going to guess as to what this is about - a shot in the dark if you will.

1) Someone says the slip is great

2) Someone says they do no love the slip

3) Zero insults the person who has a different view than him - probably name calling and personal insults.

4) Zero proclaims that he is great, and probably the best, smartest, person. It has to be true because he told himself this. Also the fact that he is a journalist proves that he is always right so there is no point in disagreeing.

5) The rest of the board (except a few) become annoyed and insulted because Zero has said offensive and uncalled for things.

6) Conclusion: Maybe we could limit the insults a bit

AND LADiDADiDADa this never ends. So I’m taking a vacation from this board.

The end - Meagan

you hit the nail on the head, meagan.

it's the classic, "he hit me first" "no it was him" fight. childish, yes. where's mom to resolve this, anyways ? hopefully not on tour with the slip.

we see this kind of childish bickering even in a presidential debate.

B-O-R-I-N-G.

[zero]

I am really trying not to be insulting or negative as that will just perpetuate. Is there any chance that my intentions are a touch better then you are making out? Is there a chance many of you are reacting to feeling personally insulted and lashing out? Is there any chance that many of you are incapable of having a meaningful debate at this level? Why not try and stretch a little, I am trying to be a better person I guess you are too. Let's show it in our actions.

[Flower]

im kinda new hear so i dont know every one but i read this post today it sounds like zero doesnt meen to be rude but i werk with kids alot and some times they cant help beeing meen when they have to much shugar maybe zero drinks to much cofee some times? i am not trying to argu or take zeros side or any side so plees no one yell at me

[SaggyBalls]

holy crap. this is the funniest thread i've read in ages.

I'll say that i really liked the show in toronto but i understand EXACTLY where s/he's coming from(could be a lady - haven't met WitW) the sound wasn't top notch, the Slip WEREN'T totally tight all night, and there were times that i could picture people getting a bit bored. HOWEVER I loved everything i heard and understand where the music was coming from - 3 self-realized hearts. I don't mind if a band's a bit sloppy (nowhere near as on as montreal in may) as they've been in the past. I don't mind if the sound in the ElMo was average (an above average band makes up for average engineering) and I don't mind that the venue was fairly empty. I saw the grin on Marc's face (something i've never seen like that at a slip show)and I was rocked for a few hours. Hell, it was the best stephen franke set i'd seen to date as well. a great night of music but I understand the shortcomings of the show. a raw night of the slip. I wonder how the rest of the run turns out.

but zero...understanding the state you've been in (Smith vs. Neo) I can let you being an a$$hole to WitW slide. nobody deserves to be berated because if a difference in musical taste...especially the way you did.

I especially liked this line -

in the month of September alone I saw over 50 shows (largely due to the Jazz Fest) many of whom were some of the penultimate imrovisers in the world.

not to start another 'discussion' but i understand your point. Jazz is definitely a great medium but it's been losing a lot of steam with me. It's turned into a genre of showing off your chops and how 'smart' you are...it's definitely an art form but as much modern art, jazz is riddled with cynical critics that assess far more than experience. You've gone to a bunch of shows - and i know you're experiencing a lot of music. Don't let your head take over from your heart. I'd hate for the music world to lose you to snooty dinner parties and trite jazzbos.

I really like the slip but i'm glad the toronto show was not my first.

[zero]

I will endeavour to not pretend I know people's mind and be less inflammatory for the moment. That comes with the proviso that do not even try to pretend you know me because you don't and you will likely never have the thoughts, experiences and tribulations I have. Take that to be arrogance I would prefer to think of it as difference. I'm not quite sure if it's just the insults that irks people or my sense of over entitlement (which oddly I have earned through hard work in many cases). To be honest many of you I actually pity because I think with communication skills this poor and an apparent inability to sense people's intention I can't imagine you will fair very well in your respective careers.

[Thumpin]

Zero (at times)= pedantic egomaniac with an overly developed "sense of entitlement"--bit of a hypocrite as well. I think anyone suprise by this is just waking up from a lobotomy.

On occasion I like what he has to say and the way he says it, but sometimes he is just plain and simply full of sh!t--which, admittedly, leads to a deft display of the english language as he trys to dig his way out of a hole, but regardless of how he writes, I repeat, sometimes he is just plain and simply full of sh!t.

Call it a zero review if you want. Another pointless observation by yet another critic, but he should relate to that pretty well I would think. Good luck with the shovel, man, but get back to writing about things where you possess a little more objectivity and don't feel compelled to sink to the level of thirteen-year-old name calling. It's a glaring contrast with the rest of your vocabulary and more importantly leads to dumbass threads like this, again, good luck with the shovel.

[zero]

You're dead right.