why do people hate phish? and hippies? and phish and hippies?

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

I remember a story out of late-60 San Francisco about a Death of Hippie event they held in which a coffin was paraded around and people tossed all the paraphenilia that had been associated in the media with "hippie", then ceremoniously burned.

Didn't work.

[bradm]

Actually, the term (along with "beatnik") was coined by a journalist in San Francisco, as detailed at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippie

Aloha,

Brad

[d_rawk]

Actually, the term (along with "beatnik") was coined by a journalist in San Francisco, as detailed at

Cool link, thanx. Wikipedia rocks.

Of course, first publication doesn't necessarily indicate first use. I suspect StoneMtn is correct in terms of the etymology stemming from the beat use of 'hip' and 'hipster', but the Wikipedia reference also mentions that. And while 'beatnik' almost assuredly came from outside sources, Kerouac had already been referring to his generation as the "beat generation" for some time (although, as often pointed out, probably meaning both 'beat' as down-and-out as well as 'beat' in terms of beatific). Ah, the beatnik entry on Wikipedia talks about this too ... cool. And mentions the original use by Herbet Huncke, which I hadn't realized.

(d_rawk suddenly waxes nostalgic for his first jambands.ca thread)

[Im going home Donny]

my buddy calls hippies..hippycrits.

ha ha!! they certainly can be when the left lane isn't used for passing only

Cheesecake...

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

as often pointed out, probably meaning both 'beat' as down-and-out as well as 'beat' in terms of beatific

... and, I would think, rhythm as well.

[muthaship]

what I don't understand is how the presence of Mike made the Benevento Russo Duo so unbearable from an aural stand point

I guess that's the difference between someone who goes to a show to hear it' date=' and one who goes to a show to see it. Unfortunately for your friend, it sounds like she falls into the latter category.

Nice use of "aural", by the way. [/quote']

not necessarily -- I got the feeling she was bitchin at people who go to a show to be AT that show where Mike got up, or whoever

I talk to so many people at shows who don't talk about the music, they talk about the shit people put asterisks next to on setlists and don't even listen

bugs the crap out of me actually

she was probably trying to hear the show over the freaked out whooping over "can't wait to tell my buddies about the show they missed!"

get over it

[StoneMtn]

I know where muthaship is coming from.

Velvet has noted to me that there is a friend of ours who spends every show telling everyone how much better the last show he saw was in comparison (whatever band he saw).

As Velvet has pointed out, "How could he know anyway? He spends entire shows ignoring the music and telling me about the last show that was so much better, which I'm sure he ignored while he talked about the show he saw before that."

[traveler]

viva la diferance eh?

[dJEd]

why does anyone like or dislike anything?

[d_rawk]

why does anyone like or dislike anything?

patchouli.

[dJEd]

you're a patchouli

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

(d_rawk suddenly waxes nostalgic for his first jambands.ca thread)

Hey, that one shows up at no. 2... (or so you said at the time).

[d_rawk]

Good eye . Not first post, but first thread that I took an active part in. I recognize that the distinction is arbitrary and may only exist in my head. My first post proper was an incitement to maxwebster to make the long trip out to Ottawa ... for a show you may remember.

(I have the same 'first time' vs. 'first time proper' issues surrounding losing my virginity. Hmm. Anyone else feel a little awkward right now?)

[StoneMtn]

(d_rawk suddenly waxes nostalgic for his first jambands.ca thread)

...I remember that thread well; actually.

The thread started about a topic purely by accident and misunderstanding.

Aaaaah the memories...

[zero]

There's just so much that can be said on the topic. When I check myself I find any time I bring up this band that was a huge part of my life I adopt an apologetic or pejorative tone. Threw on one of those commercial bootlegs that used to come out of Italy or wherever of I think 11/23/92 tonight at work and just revelled in how together and definitive they were, just massive geeks to look at, full on dungeons and dragons table top geeks, but they were our geeks.

The whole idea of seeing more than one concert of a band in the same year, month or god forbid week is foreign to the masses. Drugs help. In fact without a toke or two, about eight over priced stadium drafties, or a helluva lot of patience the bulk of it just ain't no fun. I think we overlook that a lot of people go to concerts as the occasional treat, don't smoke and often don't drink. I learned that trying to cop some rolling papers at a Broken Social Scene concert.

As far as Gordo playing with Benevento I can understand the hating sentiment but it's a bit useless if that's the word. If you identify with one or another subculture, mainstream or alternative rock, hardcore, indy, hip hop what have you - well you've got you're own pantheon of god's to contend with. Though shall not covet false idols and all that. Shiva, Kali and the Shakra Sisters are all fine and good but it's Matthew, Mark, Luke and John thank you. If Claypool or Mike Patton came out it would've been a whole different ball of wax. Then moany girl would've been quivery girl or visa versa.

At a subtler it's that same old deep seeded bias whether in the rock press or musical elitist circles that jambands, contemporary improvisation not ordained by the inside or outside jazz communities, are somehow illegitimate. The further collaborations go afield (i.e. Kottke/Gordon) the more I realize musicians just don't see things in those terms.

[timouse]

my buddy calls hippies..hippycrits.

ha ha!! they certainly can be when the left lane isn't used for passing only

Cheesecake...

the lady that runs the company that cleaned up after phish shows used the hiipecrit phrase to describe the poseurs who littered the parking lot and therefore justified her existence...

[StoneMtn]

Do we all agree what a "hippy" is?

People always told me I was one, because I had long hair and wore funny clothes. I always said I wasn't a hippy; mainly because I'm just not that nice and don't "love" everybody.

What is a hippy in 2005? If I ever was one, I guess I still am, as I don't think my disposition or attitude has changed over the years; unless it's entirely how you look (which I doubt). I also doubt that being a Phish or Dead fan makes you a hippy.

Anyone wanna take a stab at a hard definition of what "hippy" is. Feel free to define it as the term's evolved; y'know in the '60s/'70s it might have had one meaning, another in the '80s... etc.

I think if someone defines this, we will at least know what we're talking about. Anyone feeling so bold?

[Dr. J]

Hippie Boy

I was walking down the street the other day

and a sight came before my eyes

it was a little hippie boy, I must have been twice his size

his appearence typified his strange breed

gaudy clothes, long stringy hair hanging down

I'd seen perhaps a thousand in my early trips to town

as he walked beside me on down the block

I noticed no unpleasing smell

he might have been on the weed or even LSD

but if he was I couldn't tell

so we walked together that way through this neighborhood

finally he turned around to me

and he said friend, you know we're a million miles apart

but you know something we can enjoy the sunshine and the weather

so why don't we put our differences aside

and just talk to each other.....

I realize the above adds more to the stereotype than it does to the clarification, but found it interesting nonetheless. It was written 35 years ago by Chris Hillman & Gram Parsons and appeared on the first album by the Flying Burrito Brothers.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

He was born in West Virginia,

His wife's name's is big Betty Lou Thelma Loise.

And he's not responsible for what he'd been doin'.

His mother said: "You're the reason God made Oklahoma."

He done a back flip.

And it's up against the wall Redneck Mother.

Mother, who has raised her son so well.

He's thirty-four, drinkin' in a honky tonk.

"What's he doin' down there?"

Kicking hippies asses and raising hell.

Sure does like to drink his ol' Shiner beer,

Chases it down with that Wild Turkey liquor;

Drives a fifty-seven GMC pickup truck;

With his Easy-Rider rifle rack an' "We'll rope cattle for food" bumper sticker.

And it's up against the wall Redneck Mother.

Mother, who has raised her son so well.

He's thirty-four, drinkin' in a honky tonk.

"What's he doin' down there?"

Kicking hippies asses and raising hell.

M is for the mud flaps he puts on the pickup truck.

O is for the Oil the boy slicks down on his hair.

T is for T-bird

H is for Haggard

E is for eggs, and

R is for REDNECK

And it's up against the wall Redneck Mother.

Mother, who has raised her son so well.

He's thirty-four, an' drinkin' in a honky tonk.

"What's he doin' down there?"

Kicking hippies asses and raising hell.

[zero]

it is not our works which sanctify us but we who sanctify our works

[mark tonin]

Do we all agree what a "hippy" is?

People always told me I was one, because I had long hair and wore funny clothes. I always said I wasn't a hippy; mainly because I'm just not that nice and don't "love" everybody.

What is a hippy in 2005? If I ever was one, I guess I still am, as I don't think my disposition or attitude has changed over the years; unless it's entirely how you look (which I doubt). I also doubt that being a Phish or Dead fan makes you a hippy.

Anyone wanna take a stab at a hard definition of what "hippy" is. Feel free to define it as the term's evolved; y'know in the '60s/'70s it might have had one meaning, another in the '80s... etc.

I think if someone defines this, we will at least know what we're talking about. Anyone feeling so bold?

A great point, StoneMtn, and one that has come up a number of times over the course of my life.

As a teacher,

I've had students ask me "Are you a hippy?"

I've had students say "I hate hippies."

I've had students say "I want to be a hippy."

I've also had similar questions/comments made to me by parents, peers, etc. over the years.

My initial response to questions or comments like the above is "What do you mean by a hippy? What is your definition of a hippy?"

I don't know if I'm bold enough, or qualified enough to define the term, but my usual response is something like:

"If a hippy is somebody that believes in peace and being kind to others, than yes, I am a hippy."

The above is usually a good starting point to get a discussion going about what a hippy is.

I try to use the same approach when somebody makes strong comments about any group of people, including the following:

- hippies

- feminists

- conservatives/republicans

etc.

Peace, Mark

[Dr. J]

Here is an interesting statement from Abbie Hoffman, one of the original leaders in the movement, reflecting back on its beginnings.

[balogna pogna]

Hippies get on my nerves everyday of my life.

I'm going downstairs right now and telling Shawnald and Del to set the "bong" down for a minute and take a "bath". Half the time I don't even understand what they're talking about.

Who is this Bobby they keep referring to anyway?

God-damn Hippies!

[elemeno]

you may have more luck getting del and shawnald to take a bath if you offer them this. mention that they can smoke the leftovers

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

I try to use the same approach when somebody makes strong comments about any group of people, including the following:

- hippies

- feminists

- conservatives/republicans

etc.

Good angle, Mark; I think it's the only one that really works, since everyone comes with a bundle of presuppositions around any of these that depend on their own background, associations, etc. When all our trappings are stripped away from us, what are we, anyway?