Stay In School

[SevenSeasJim]

Ontario to deny licences to dropouts

Last Updated Tue, 13 Dec 2005 14:28:02 EST

CBC News

Ontario high school students who drop out won't be allowed to get their driver's licences under a law to be introduced Tuesday.

The legislation is designed to keep students in school until they're 18 so they can graduate. Roughly 45,000 Ontario high school students, or 30 per cent, leave each year before graduating.

(courtesy Ontario Ministry of Transportation)

The province hopes to cut that number in half by 2010.

Education Minister Gerard Kennedy said students applying for their licences would have to show a document to the Ministry of Transportation that proves they're an active student.

Kennedy says the penalty will come into effect once schools establish a wider choice of courses and add more co-op and apprenticeship programs to keep at-risk students in school.

Details of how the program would work, including how long they would be prevented from getting their licences, have yet to be announced.

This isn't the first time such a strategy has been used. There are nine U.S. states that require high school attendance to receive a driver's licence and 10 that suspend licences for truancy and academic problems.

[Davey Boy 2.0]

that seems a little bizarre and high handed to me

what's one got to do with the other?!?

that said, i'd support it if it cuts into that 30%

[SevenSeasJim]

I think because most teenagers want their licence. Motivation to stay in school??? i guess

[Dr. J]

This seems absolutely crazy to me.

First, the politicians demand a high school program that is for the most part too difficult and irrelevant for a third of our young people and then say to them, if you don't do it, we won't let you graduate. Now when that doesn't work, they say OK we won't let you graduate and we won't let you drive. When that doesn't work, what will they say next? OK, we won't let you graduate and we won't let you drive and we won't let you get a job. Haven't tried that. Right?

Seems to me they might better take the time and energy and money it's going to take to try and enforce such a regulation to actually develop programs better suited to these young people and then give teachers the resources/facilities/class sizes needed to effectively deliver the programs.

But then again, what the hell do I know? I'm an educator, not a politician.

[SevenSeasJim]

[color:red]Kennedy says the penalty will come into effect once schools establish a wider choice of courses and add more co-op and apprenticeship programs to keep at-risk students in school.

Like this? A good start perhaps.

[Birdy]

*sigh*

you've got to be kidding me. what about the countless numbers of rural kids who are forced to drop out to help their families with farm work, etc.? what happens to them?

[Birdy]

i wonder what the definition of an "at-risk student" is.

[Davey Boy 2.0]

probably someone without much interest in school, low marks and low attendance records- something like that i'd imagine

[SevenSeasJim]

*sigh*

you've got to be kidding me. what about the countless numbers of rural kids who are forced to drop out to help their families with farm work, etc.? what happens to them?

Do you need a licence to drive a tractor?? :wink:

[meggo]

"at risk" students are, in a nutshell, students who aren't doing well academically or behaviourally and appear to be going the way of dropping out. [edit - pretty much what daveyboy said ]

i agree with dr. j. the 'no license' thing seems a bit desperate. maybe it will work for a handful of kids, but it certainly isn't addressing the root(s) of the problem, which are complicated and many (not to sound like i know what they all are, cause i sure don't).

i did hear on CBC radio this morning that they are introducing specialized courses in farming for kids in certain rural areas, which i think is an excellent step in the right direction.

Edited December 13, 2005 by Guest

[SevenSeasJim]

And soon there will be no family farms left. Only Corp farms. What's their excuse now? hehe

[Sheebs]

this is the most ridiculous thing ever. If kids are gonna drop out they will. you can not force kids to stay in school that very idea will make them want to drop out more. how many kids live in T.O.? what do they need to drive for?

bullsh*t

man am I glad that part of my life is over.

[Davey Boy 2.0]

Maybe they should introduce courses for kids to learn how to make those delicious looking Dangerous Dan burgers, that'd be constructive

[SevenSeasJim]

Are there low fat Dangerous Dan burgers? If not that won't help the obesity problem these kids are having. Actually maybe they are too fat to get behind the wheel of a car these days.

[Birdy]

i did hear on CBC radio this morning that they are introducing specialized courses in farming for kids in certain rural areas, which i think is an excellent step in the right direction.

it sounds good, but really is it? the kids are dropping out not to pursue a career of farming, but because they're just down right needed on the farm.. in terms of hands.

[Davey Boy 2.0]

I think there's more room behind the steering wheel of a tractor than the average family car, probably enough room to fit a Dangerous Dan burger as well

[SevenSeasJim]

Dangerous Dan had a farm E-I-E-I-O

[bouche]

Basically, don't drop out until you get your drivers license.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

They have to combine driver's ed and school more efficiently. Our high school's driving teacher was an old German who'd been recruited to fight on the Russian Front, and always had stories to tell. People used to clamour to get in his class.

(Note how carefully I skirted the problem of Godwin's Law here ).

[ollie]

First, the politicians demand a high school program that is for the most part too difficult and irrelevant for a third of our young people and then say to them, if you don't do it, we won't let you graduate.

How is it irrelevant to 1/3 of young people and how is it too difficult? I'm frustrated by the low expectations we have for kids in school and, by extension, our workforce.

I don't think this program is necessarily the right way to go but it is intriguing.

[Lazlo]

Driver licenses should be given based on a bribery system.

[Im going home Donny]

gees. Can you say shortsighted....band aid...stupid...yo yeah that should solve the problems of troubled or poor or uninspired or abused, youth. Idiots.

[Dr. J]

How is it irrelevant to 1/3 of young people and how is it too difficult?

Perhaps my use of irrelevant and difficult wasn't a totally accurate description of the program. "Inappropriate" may have been a better term. The minister clearly recognizes the current program as being inapprpriate when he states that the penalty will not come into effect until schools have established a wider choice of courses and work related programs for these students.

I'm frustrated by the low expectations we have for kids in school and, by extension, our workforce.

I don't think this program is necessarily the right way to go but it is intriguing.

I wasn't in any way suggesting we lower our standards for students. In fact, that's part of the current problem. Because there are not suitable programs for these kids, they are put in classes where they don't belong (with directions to the teacher..."oh just don't expect as much from them"). Well, this doesn't do them, the teacher or the other kids any good.

I have found negative sanctions to be the least effective way to motivate young people to strive to do better. I expect that the number of young people dropping out of school will decrease minimally, as a result of this rule and the number driving without a licence will increase dramatically

[Velvet]

This is just wrong on a hundred different levels.

Two quick points:

High school dropouts have a lot of job restrictions, and with no license they'll be stuck at 7-11.

and

High school students who don't want to be there and are only there because they have to be are no help to anybody, in fact they are a hindrance.

I know, as I was stuck in school for a year and a half before I was allowed to drop out. Pity the poor teachers and fellow students who had to put up with an unwilling, unworking prisoner in their midst.

[Hal Johnson]

No one seems to have any better ideas.