Beatle Backs Seals

[ollie]

Hey thanks MarcO. I respect your opinion so it means a lot. I see how I came off like a hot head yesterday... I was really just having fun with hyperbole and didn't give much thought to the impact of my words. (Say, didn't Phil Lesh have something to say about this recently?) I think my follow-up clarification post stated my point in a more reasonable manner.

[Tissue Man]

CBC article What a surprise, paul photographed with a seal that will not be getting killed. that will make a nice ad poster for the un-informed, get some more money rolling in for the animal rights folks..

another story here.

"If Paul McCartney wants to do something really good, I don't have a problem with him going out and looking at seals," says Small.

"But I'd like for him to come and look at the people who are scattered in little communities along the coastline who depend on that way of life for a livelihood. Those people are not educated into our culture or our way of life."

Trying to get Paul to visit some communities where the way of life depends on the seal hunt. Nah he doesnt give a shit about humans, families or culture just animals.

Media only seleceted by the Humane Society from the United States were allowed on the ice flow. what the fuck? guess they dont like fair journalism. shock.

The protesters that go out on the ice deserve to fall through. They are not only putting themselves in danger but putting sealers in danger when they get too close. And it happens, two shits were arrested a year or so ago off the coast of PEI for getting way to close to the sealers causing problems.

And yes calling the mountainman an asshole was probably a bit much. sorry about that.

Edited March 3, 2006 by Guest

[Birdy]

last friday as compared to this friday are like night and day on this website.

[Im going home Donny]

Mabey Alberta should be pouring some of them oil riches into the east coast?

Mabey with the welfare huge corps recieve from the gov. they should pour some flow east.

I don't know how far eco tourism can go but mabey a combo of things....

There really must be better ways.

I think its the Ontario gov that really hasn't given a rats ass(yeah full of shit libs) and thats a major source of the problem plus DFO seems tottally fucked.

Who fucking wears fur coats these days anyways?

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

Who fucking wears fur coats these days anyways?

Certainly in the southern parts of Canada, anyways. The one place I can see them being useful is way up north where synthetic fibres freeze solid and make moving around really hard.

[Im going home Donny]

well thankfully it'll be hot as florida up there soon....colour me purple.

[boiler]

amazing the passion that can be invoked by a bunch of cod swillin seals. sheesh. With this much passion available for seals, I'm gonna make a band named the Seals or Flippers or something. Hopefully there will be as much passion for the human seals.

Guns vs bats.

Don't you think the world would be a better place if we replaced all guns with baseball bats? Let the Army's of the world smash each other with baseball bats rather than missles and machine guns. Seems to make sense to me.

[Birdy]

it's not just fur coats.

i think these people should continue to do what they have done for one hundred or so years.

i would rather see the earth blow up into a million different pieces than for the human race to genetically alter DNA of various life forms or to fish farm, the loveliness of which dancingbear has already pointed out. Personally I'm afraid of the word "alternative", and what exactly it might bring about. Lately it seems to involve whacky, morally offensive science.

I think there's a capacity on "caring" and we're bordering on being over capacity. I can correlate this with car seats for children, and a Starbucks coffee that comes accompanied by ten to fifteen different adjectives. what ever happened to a plain old coffee? *GASP*

nowadays there's a bleeding heart for every cause, which accompanied by power, whether it is in the form of Paul McCartney's money or a successful lobby of a government, has the ability to create change. And generally speaking, bleeding hearts remain unchecked and respected, never questioned. But they need to be. Bleeding hearts are bleeding- they aren't healthy. There's always going to be a person effected by it, and in all of quest for the goodness of humanity, this should be our concern, unfortunately not the seals. because really when it boils down to it, the food chain, the need for survival is the most natural of all earthly interactions, and that's just the way shit rolls.

i think private jets flying in to stir shit up on the rock, should go back to the rock they came from.

[boiler]

Just when you think clubbin baby seals is bad:

Explosive Rats

[SmoothedShredder]

Nice to see some good debate in the last while on Jambands.ca... I was wondering why the Anger bug was running around so much in the last week.

This debate is a very interesting one. I could see it framed as:

Global Vision vs. Local Vision...

Is the ONLY use for seals the fur? I'm not sure it justifies it anymore, but I would hope that the whole animal is Utilized in some way... but there is that element of Burns' Marine Recyling Plant Sludge that would concern me.

To criticize the Global Vision position: which seems to be one which is attempting to formulate a global system for environmental management, one which can be swayed not so much by Government beuracracy, but rather popular opinion; It's difficult to accept an argument of Global vs. Local when it seems as though the population of Seals as a whole appears 'healthy' in as much that in spite of the hunt, the Seal population continues to thrive, in as much as the total population is increasing year by year.

In as much as the population as a whole is healthy, then why, inhearently, would it be wrong for these local people to continue what they have done for centuries, and a way of life which can sustain their community.

In contrast where do we draw the line? Do we do so with trees as well? What about Tomatoes? I wouldn't think so... in as much as the forest continue to grow back with some predictability, we shouldn't feel 'evil' for working the forest, or the farms.

But swinging it the other way, we can see what happens when we 'uphold' the sanctity of life, as we have done with our own population of humans for the last 60 years or so. Our population has gone boom! Out of control... not so much that there isn't enough space for us all, as there aren't enough resources for us all... and because of the things we have done to stave off our own species from population implossion, we find ourselves tetering on the brink, not knowing if it will be Mad Cow, HN15, a Nuclear Bomb, or a war with the poor of the world Uprising against the rich which will eventually do the job on us as Mother Nature may intend.

In so much as a population level remains stable with healthy young, and secured nesting grounds... there is nothing inherantly wrong with interspecies behaviour... as it applies to the case of the sealers...

As it applies to the globe as a whole, I think there are bigger fish to fry, namely ourselves... Any volunteers?

[StoneMtn]

I'm gonna make a band named the Seals or Flippers or something.

I think there's a lame-ass from England calling himself "Seal" who already beat you to that punch.

[Diggzz]

Mabey Alberta should be pouring some of them oil riches into the east coast?

Mabey with the welfare huge corps recieve from the gov. they should pour some flow east.

I don't know how far eco tourism can go but mabey a combo of things....

There really must be better ways.

I think its the Ontario gov that really hasn't given a rats ass(yeah full of shit libs) and thats a major source of the problem plus DFO seems tottally fucked.

Who fucking wears fur coats these days anyways?

What does Ontario have to do with this issue? Ontario taxpayers contribute $23billion more in taxes than we get back in federal spending, so how is it Ontario's fault?

[Hux]

She's clueless, those statements have little resemblance to reality.

[d_rawk]

Tact, dude.

Where are your manners?

[Birdy]

i think howler just likes to spread the love around.

that is a decent and admirable quality, whether feasible or not.

[SmoothedShredder]

i think howler just likes to spread the love around.

that is a decent and admirable quality, whether feasible or not.

I'd buy those beans. HONK!

[Im going home Donny]

Hux you've got to be one of the most arrogant, audacious, lordy, pompous,supercilious, vain mofos...I've ever met...oh wait all those words add up to the same meaning don't they...lets add ugly, vexatious and dirty...so charming. Look what happens to little boys who hate thier mothers.

anyways thats not very lovey is it.

The seal hunt is a touchy subject but not one I don't have an opinion on but I do have compassion for East coasters as they do seem to have gotten the short end of the Canadian stick. I have no real idea of what the proper solution is nor do I think I have the slightest bit of controll. So while I couldn't hold back my opinion entirely I was only trying to keep shit a bit light.

The DFO are behind the seal hunt, the over fishing and eventual collapse of the cod stocks and Shark derbies.

It is legal to kill defenceless seal pups when their white fur coats start to molt at 12 days of age. At this time they have ceased nursing and are learning to swim properly as they wait for the ice to melt. They then migrate to Greenland.

Each spring, sealers step onto the seal ice nurceries, off Canadas east coast, with thier killing tools-skull-crushing hakapiks(like large ice picks)and rifles.

95% of the seals killed, each year, are 12 days to 12 weeks of age.

In 2001, an international panel of veterinary experts performed a study showing that up to 42% of the seals they studied were skinned alive.

The Canadian government set a target of 975,000 seals to be killed between 2003-2005.

The seals are killed for thier fur and skins for the fashion industry, thier oil promoted as a health supplement and for thier penises-promoted for use as an aphrodesiac in the Far East.

Heres another fine tradition...

Shark Derbies: These tournaments happen in several locations every summer, resulting in the death of hundreds of sharks.

Shark populations have declined to dangerous levels over the past decade.

Blue sharks are unpalatable for humans and thier is no commercial market for blue sharks.

Shark derbies are inherintly cruel and barbaric;sharks have a well developed nervous systom and suffer when hooked.

After more than 10 years of collecting data at NS

shark derbies, DFO has yet to yield ANY new information with respect to the health of shark populations.

Despite these alarming facts, DFO continues to sanction shark derbies. Without thier seal of approval, the shark derbies would not be allowed.

[Birdy]

looks like she ain't clueless.

[d_rawk]

[gentlemonkey]

(to the tune of My Michelle)

Maaaa phoque. si choux,

Je veux jouer sur, l'Ile du Prince Edward

avec vous, mon phoque si doux.

[Im going home Donny]

well I guess while my sleeves are rolled up...heres what my research appears to be reveiling....

East Coast livelyhood: the seal hunt is a part time OFF SEASON subsidy for fishermen(there may be women but I couldn't see evidence of this)

The seal hunt represents less than 1% of the annual income for many hunters, the highest earnings being 30%. The earnings are so low that the hunt is subsidized by the gov. For the majority of the seal hunters, this is a new thing - they started hunting seals once the cod was gone.

There are one or two remote communities in NF that have been going out on the ice for generations, but that's like 20 people and tradition doesn't make it right. Slavery was a tradition in the South once.

As for native people....they don't hunt seals untill they've begun thier migration further North, which doesn't happen untill the pups have matured.

SO...by men killing them in thier nurseries (what the birthing area on the ice is called) THEY ARE THREAGHTENING THE ONLY TRADITIONAL HUNT.

This is a commercial hunt - there is nothing traditional about it.

As for supporting the economy - thanks to the seal hunt there is now an international boycott in the works...

and as for the...

"SEAL EAT COD THING"

GIMME A FUCKING BREAK!"!

HUMANS OVERFISHED THE COD!...where'd ya get your information man...

Besides, seals eat a varied diet - cod makes up 3% of thier diet - THE REST IS COMPRISED OF PREDITORS THAT EAT THE COD....so killing off the seals hurts the cod. The DFO actually had to admit this one.

I'm starting to find DFO to be to me what the uni-brow baby is to maggie simpson.

Edited March 4, 2006 by Guest

[meggo]

traditional definition of a person [used to exclude women]

traditional definition of marriage

my new motto is screw tradition! [heehee... i don't mean that to be such a blanket statement, i just wannedta say it]

thanks for that info howler... you know what they say on GI joe!

[Im going home Donny]

From the Sea Sheppard website;

"Canadian Government Encouraged to kill seals

In the last posting on our website on this issue (2/24/06), we reported that the Canadian Federal Department of Fisheries and Oceans (DFO) Officers turned a blind eye to the activities of nine Cape Breton fishermen who cruelly and illegally slaughtered 220 grey seals in a protected wilderness area of Nova Scotia.

It appears now that the DFO officers actually encouraged the illegal slauter.

"We were encouraging it," DFO spokesman Jerry Conway said on 2/23/06, a day after the men recieved summons from provincial Natural Resources Department conservation officers as they stepped onto the dock Tuesday at Main-a Dieu, Cape Bretton County.

The pending charges are under the Wuildlife Act. and the Envirement Act.

The nine men are to appear in Sydney provincial court on May 8.

The men killed the seals on Hay Island, a small outcropping off Scatarie Island, a provincially-designated wildlife management area, a fact that at least two levels of government say they were unaware of.

"Not only wasn't this department (DFO) aware that Hay Island was not considered to be part of Scatarie, but the provincial Fisheries department weren't aware, because both were encouraging the developement of this Fishery," Mr Conway said, adding that when the seal hunt was established, sealers were informed they could harvest Grey seals from Cape North through to the Bay of Fundy. No specific areas were closed to them.

So both the Federal and Provincial Fisheries Department were admittedly ignorant of the fact that this was a protected area.

"This is the kind of ignorance routinely displayed by the Canadian Department of Fisheries", said Captain Paul Watson. "Here they are in charge of protecting wildlife, and yet, they admit they don't know where the boundries are."

A letter from the Natural Resources Department in 2003 alerted both government departments to this area being off limits, Mr.Conway admitted.

And as frecently as 3 weeks ago, a group trying to develope a sealing industry in Nova Scotia was lobbying Provincial Envirement Minister Kerry Morash to allow seals to be slaughtered specifically on Hay Island.

"The minister advised them that Hay Island is not open to hunting and they subsequently have been advised again and by DFO and DNR officers that there was to be no hunting on Hay Island and they chose to ignore that advice," Mr Conway admitted.

Even MacIntyre, a spokesman for the Natural Resources Department in Coxheath, said DFO regulates the seal fishery and that his department is involved simply due to the location of the hunt.

"As far as we are concerned, the onus is on the sealers to know where they can and cannot hunt," he said.

Victoria-The Lakes member of the Legislature Assembly Gerald Sampson says he was approached last month by a number of northern Victoria County seal hunters who want Hay Island excluded from the wildlife management designation.

"They told me that they had harvested seals there previously and wanted permission to harvest seals there again," he said, adding he directed them to Mr. Morash and Neil Bellefontaine, a senior DFO official.

"I don't know if they recieved permission or if that was the last group charged,"he said.

Jay Luger, spokesman for the Grey Seal Research and Developement Society, which wants to develope a grey seal industry, has refused to comment on the illegal slaughter on Hay Island.

It is expected that the arrested sealers will use the fact that DFO encouraged them to kill seals as thier defense on the charges. It is also expected that the courts will be leniant.

"It is not as if they did something serious like photograph a seal hunt," said Captain Paul Watson.

"Eleven of my crew were sentenced to jail for 22 days or a fine of $1,000 for the "crime" of witnessing the slaughter of one seal. These bastards viciously slaughtered 220 seals illegally and I bet thier sentance, if in fact are even found guilty, will be significantly more leniant than those convicted of trying to stop the killing of the seals. Justice is not blind in Canada; it is applied with great clarity and prejudice."

...these folks deserve to fall through the ice??WTF?!?!!

Edited March 4, 2006 by Guest

[Im going home Donny]

and another thing...as far as crying about displaced East coasters goes....not every single person in the East Coast is clubbing seals - so what does the job market have to do with the seal hunt?

People relocate all the time. Hell-most of us are from immigrant parents or all of us if you want to go back far enough...as far as whitey is concerned.

If you have an ounce of ambition and aren't in the right place for what you want to do, you go to where that is.

As far as there not being enough options out East...So?

Toronto and Ottawa et are bigger cities. That is all there is to it. People can try to develope all kinds of industry they want out East.

Thats what the film industry did!

The film industry wasn't magically thrown at Easteners!

People who wanted to work in film in Eastern Canada worked really hard to create a film industry there.

The migration to central areas for work has been going on since the beginning of time.

People moved in from farms to the city with the industrial revolution in the largest numbers in history. No one said hey - there should be factories in every farm town in England!

That would have been moronic.

edit to add;my opinion of Paul and his wife has changed full circle...I think they are truely brave, compassionate, forward thinking, intelligant people...its easy to get ones back up to rich people and to 'outsiders' and I'm suprised I sunk into it. I need to travel and read more for I allmost saw shades of ignorance encircling my neck....yucky legumes man..

Edited March 4, 2006 by Guest

[Lazlo]

Just when you think clubbin baby seals is bad:

Explosive Rats

When I looked at the diagram all I could think was lucky rat.