North Korea

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

Maybe this belongs over in the Politics Forum, but it's pretty big - is anybody else freaked out about this? It seems as of yesterday there's a new member of the nuclear club.

[color:purple]But isn't it wonderful when something brings China, Japan, and South Korea so much closer together? [that's supposed to be in purple font]

UN Must Take "Decisive Action" after North Korea Nuclear Test

The UN Security Council must take "decisive action" against North Korea over its nuclear weapons test, Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and U.S. President George W. Bush agreed on Monday.

The agreement came during a 15-minute phone conversation between the two leaders, Japan's Foreign Ministry said.

In a conference call with reporters, White House press secretary Tony Snow said Bush would make a statement later Monday morning.

"A North Korean nuclear test would constitute a provocative act in defiance of the will of the international community and of our call to refrain from actions that would aggravate tensions in Northeast Asia," said Snow.

While saying he was not confirming that a nuclear test had occurred, Snow said, "We expect the UN Security Council to take immediate actions to respond to this unprovoked act."

According to North Korea's official news agency, the reclusive country tested its first nuclear weapon on Sunday.

The Korean Central News Agency reported that the test was successful and no radiation had leaked from the underground site.

The test "will contribute to defending the peace and stability on the Korean Peninsula and in the area around it," KCNA reported.

The test took place at 10:36 a.m. local time (9:36 p.m. ET Sunday) near the city of Kilju, according to South Korean defence sources cited by South Korea's Yonhap news agency.

South Korea, which shares the world's most heavily armed border with the North, said it put its military on high alert.

North Korea has created "a severe situation that threatens stability on the Korean Peninsula and in northeast Asia," South Korean President Roh Moo-hyun told journalists.

He said the test would make it difficult for Seoul to maintain its efforts to strengthen ties with its Communist neighbour.

"This is a warning as well as my prediction," Roh said. "Under this situation, it's difficult for South Korea to maintain engagement policy."

South Korean intelligence officials told Yonhap that a seismic wave had been detected in North Korea that might indicate a nuclear test had been conducted.

But the U.S. Geological Survey said it had not detected seismic activity. However, its sensors might not have been able to pick up a nuclear test.

China expresses 'resolute opposition'

News of the test followed a demand from China and Japan on Sunday that the Communist country shelve the test.

North Korea said early last week that it would test an atomic weapon because of "the U.S. extreme threat of a nuclear war."

Following that statement, the UN, U.S. and other countries all asked that it not proceed.

China, a longtime North Korea supporter and host of stalled international talks to persuade the fellow Communist country to give up its nuclear ambitions, strongly condemned the act.

"China expresses its resolute opposition," the Chinese Foreign Ministry said. The North "defied the universal opposition of international society and flagrantly conducted the nuclear test."

North Korea is believed to have enough plutonium for as few as four and as many as about a dozen nuclear bombs. But until Sunday's reported action, Pyongyang had never tested a device.

Edited October 9, 2006 by Guest
purple font ain't working

[zero]

My sense is that we have far more serious things to be deathly afraid of in the world today than North Korea having nukes.

[Sarahbelle]

oh man.. Crazy North Korea!!!

What the heck are they doing!!

Kim Jong Il should be.. something. I don't even have the words right now...

[Birdy]

My sense is that we have far more serious things to be deathly afraid of in the world today than North Korea having nukes.

bad sense. when bombs that have the ability to completely obliterate hundreds of thousands of people and change the face of the earth forever more are being tested, there is reason for concern. having them is one thing, testing what they can do is another.

[Jaimoe]

The country that is the most worried about the escalating North Korean nuke program is Japan. If they ever decide on launching an offensive, the first country that will get attacked is Japan.

[zero]

No it's very good sense. I assure you there were likely 20 other developments in the global counterintelligence community that happened the same day as the Korean nuke test we will never hear about. It's the things we don't hear about that worry me.

[nattyMatty]

It is Totally Crazy. All these Crazy Crazy leaders. I don't know how we can resolve the problems in the world. "No one can stop them now" Thats from a 70 or 80's reggae tune. It comes to mind when i think of nuclear energy. Has any one seen the movie V is for vendetta.

So anyways what do ya do? Sit around and worry about the world getting blown up? join a list? Protest?

I don't know. Id say Party Till Drop. But im open for suggestions?

[bouche]

so ronery

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

The country that is the most worried about the escalating North Korean nuke program is Japan. If they ever decide on launching an offensive, the first country that will get attacked is Japan.

What's equally troubling is the hyper-nationalist vibe from the new Japanese PM, and the way that he could resuscitate the anti-Korean racism there to stoke things even worse; he's even working to retool the constitution to bring the military back up to pre-WWII speed. I really don't like where any of this is heading.

And yes, Zero, there is all sorts of stuff going on that we never hear about (I'm sure some engineered superviruses are just waiting in who knows how many place to slip out of the labs and into the streets), but this now ratchets up the same endless nightmare that had been going on between India and Pakistan, Israel and its neighbours, and, well, everybody else that has the bomb and those that don't like them.

[bokonon]

I must admit that I respect a nation that stands up to the Master of Hegemony. This evens the balance of power a little, and that actually makes me feel more safe. It makes me feel like there is a chance that the culture of greed and individualism isn't going to take over the entire world. When countries other than the United States have the power to destroy the world it also means they have the power to impact the world in other ways without fear of being outgunned. I'm really hoping that North Korea is going to be like a shop-keeper that has a gun under the counter hoping never to use it, but knowing they can if it's the last resort to defend themselves.

[M.O.B.E]

This Link here sheds alot of light of what is really going on and it was from a few years back too. The arms race never really ended it just shifted borders. Believe what you will from the link but for the most part it all adds up if you are up on current affairs.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

Hee hee hee .

Bokonon, I hear you about the need for checks and balances, but the problem isn't just with the US, but arguably more so with China and India, who in not too long will be taking over as the US sinks deeper and deeper into its own sludge.

I do hope there are some cooler heads in the NK army. That doesn't seem very well reflected in the leadership.

[nattyMatty]

I wonder what the dooms day clock is sitting at after the blew that off. I remember when pakistan blew one off it moved the clock ahead a few seconds. Anyone know what im talking about.

I found a little blurb here. http://www.thebulletin.org/doomsday_clock/current_time.htm

Edited October 10, 2006 by Guest

[M.O.B.E]

the problem isn't just with the US, but arguably more so with China and India, who in not too long will be taking over as the US sinks deeper and deeper into its own sludge.

The United States is dragging us down with them too. It's too bad more Canadians havn't figured it out yet or we could take matters into our owns hands. Line up every canadain at the border and we'll all shoot hockey pucks into the US Broder towns. They won't know what hit them

[nattyMatty]

The United States is dragging us down with them too. It's too bad more Canadians havn't figured it out yet or we could take matters into our owns hands. Line up every canadain at the border and we'll all shoot hockey pucks into the US Broder towns. They won't know what hit them

They'll just shoot bullets back, Yea know what is rough. It would only take the population of a hand full of amarican citys armed with sticks and stones to take us over. let alone sending there stinking DOD

[The Chameleon]

While I am not in favour of any country developing nukes as weapons, I think this was a very smart move on the part of North Korea. And ultimately it will make them secure from American invasion.

Why? See when a country has nukers the others nations in the world just don't go in an occupy, rape, kill and pillage as in Iraq and Afghanistan. Due to the fact of a real threat, they (the attacking nations, usually the US)negotiate, in act sanctions and respect the nations borders.

I think Kim Jogn Eel (sp?) knows this and he realizes with all the saber rattling in the US, unless he gets nukes they would perhaps go after him next. Now that he has nukes and a huge army the US is not going to "cowboy ride" in thier and set up 7-11s. No they will have to deal. Smart move.

Furthermore I find it laughable that the US is all "talking tough" about nations not developing nukes, or certain nations getting ride of nukes, when the US has more nukes than anyone. What's more the US has a more agrerssive history of late than North Korea. North Korea may raise tensions and be a isolated totalianary state, but they haven't really done anything.

If the US wants people to get rid of nukes then they should start, they have the most and they are the ones running around the world invading countires at thier own choosing UN be damned. Seems the US wants a double standard, they want the nukes and want to choose who else in the world gets to have them. What a load of Yankee bullshit.

Frankly if I was an independant state that did not have a great relation with the US, I'd think about developing nukes too, to protect my nation against the US.

So nukes, yes they are bad, but North Korea developing them was a smart move. Sad but true.

Edited October 10, 2006 by Guest

[Birdy]

you must be all for the anti-ballistic missile shield...

ARM THE WORLD!

[Sarahbelle]

I don't know you guys...

North Korean people are also in EXTREME poverty. They don't have power, water or food. Meanwhile, there's some crrazy man spending all kinds of money on nukes. It just doesn't make sense. North Korea is a very very volitile state and if something isn't done, we're all fucked.

bah.. this really upsets me actually. This is really freeakin scary..

[Birdy]

big time.

[ggrtrhhrtgg]

May I present another unrelated (?) idea. In one of my classes, the students are writing a persuasive/argumentative essay on a variety of topics. One is should there be restrictions on handguns? Now, (as I am sure you are already aware of of) in the Declaration of Independence (which defines the American constitution) it states "the right to bear arms". However, no where in that document does it state that you should have one, it just provides you with the rights to chose to own one. My question is: who then is responsible for the fact that most Americans actually own a weapon?

[SaggyBalls]

I'm more annoyed that the UN isn't doing anyhting about the rest of the world having nukes

I take it the bomb that N.Korea detonated wasn't very latge compared to the ones that were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki

it's all about disturbing shit.

[scottieking]

May I present another unrelated (?) idea. In one of my classes, the students are writing a persuasive/argumentative essay on a variety of topics. One is should there be restrictions on handguns? Now, (as I am sure you are already aware of of) in the Declaration of Independence (which defines the American constitution) it states "the right to bear arms". However, no where in that document does it state that you should have one, it just provides you with the rights to chose to own one. My question is: who then is responsible for the fact that most Americans actually own a weapon?

First, esteemed colleague, the Constitution does in its Second Amendment, guarantee the right to bear arms.However this was not your point.

It was created around the idea that early Americans weren't necessary convinced that

a) They weren't entirely convinced that the British weren't coming back

b)They weren't entirely convinced they could trust their newly minted Federal government and reserved the right to keep a state militia (now known as the National Guard)

Add this + a civil war - slavery + frontier expansion and just shy of the turn of the century you have a culture in which roughly about 1/3 of the population owns a gun (which is more than the roughly 1/4 of Americans that do today)

Post WWII chalk it up mostly to the military industrial complex, with a few pinches of healthy commie paranoia, racial inequality, and Mr Moore's thesis on the culture of fear.

Back on topic: I'm teaching a little refresher on North Korea right now to a generation whose primary exposure to this meglomaniac is this:

I've got to admit, all I can hear in my head is

"Do you have any idea how fuckin busy I am, Hans Brix? Werr, Fuck you! You want inspection? Werr, inspect that! You butt-fucking piece of shit! What, you think I'm just a petty arms dealer? I'm pranning the attack! Congratulations Team America, you have stopped nothing..."

[hamilton]

There is currently a great deal of speculation over whether or not they even tested a nuclear device. The only nation to agree that it was definitely a nuclear test is Russia. The U.S., China, and South Korea have not yet scientifically, conclusively determined that there truly was an atomic detonation on the weekend. The detonation on the scale that was detected at the time could have been created by a large-scale detonation of conventional bombs. No one will know for sure if what Kim Jong-il claims is true or not until all of the scientific data has been collected and analyzed.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

Japan is now at the same time saying that there's been a new tremor and that they won't declare it to be the effect of another test.

Japanese Tremors Raise Fear of Second North Korean Test

If I gave governments any more credit I'd think they were all in cahoots just to keep everybody else scared and docile.

[M.O.B.E]