Saddam Hussein executed

[d_rawk]

Did you mean where does it start, or where does it end? If you meant end, I think that you are right and my idea could be extended into a lot of areas that we might not want it to extend to. It really does invite a lot of questions of where the public documentation of all things that the state touches should start or end, and what that would mean to the privacy of those involved in those same state interactions. I'd also be more concerned that the logic could be extended to culminate in mandatory viewings of executions - a chilling thought - although I think that there are stronger currents in (small 'l') liberal democracies to guard against such things. I might not be tracking you properly though.

I don't really necessarily feel that all executions should be broadcast these days though ... I'm a wee bit tamer and less shoot from the hip in my older years. Although I haven't really thought about it in any depth for a long time. I'm not sure where I would stand today if I took the time to walk the argument through, but my guess would be that I'd stand with you -- that it is arbitrary to isolate capital punishment alone, and that the precedent would be set to treat every aspect of the justice system similarly. You're on to something.

[djmelbatoast]

from George Carlin's When Will Jesus Bring The Pork Chops

WE JUST WANT TO WATCH

First, let me say that most people take these so-called tragedies like Columbine and Oklahoma City far too seriously. You have to remember, it's all part of the American way of life. If you live in America you have to go along with these things. You can't be sitting around whining, "Ohh, a lot of people got killed". These things happen folks. People get killed.

But, concerning the guys (it's always men) who commit these mass killings-and other less dramatic murders for that matter: After the sentence of death is passed, you willusually see the whining families of the "victims" insist on watching the execution up close, through a little window. They want to see the guy die. Don't these people know there's nothing to see? It's uneventful. An attendant gives the guy an injection: it's like watching someone get a flu shot. There's nothing to see. But they often get their wish and are allowed to witness what's little more than a medical procedure.

Now, my feeling is, if you're going to let people watch some guy get executed, it would make much more sense to put on a little show for these ghouls. Entertain them. Place the guy in a small steel room and send in four or five of these sadistic prison guards with steel pipes and let them beat the guy to death. For about an hour. A constant, uninterrupted, sixty minute clubbing would seem far more in keeping with our national values.

And, of course, this method would be much more satisfying to the families of these so-called victims; these fine, upstanding religious families who beleive in a merciful God. They'd enjoy watching these psycotic, animalistic prison guards doing what comes naturally-administering a nice, brutal clubbing. Prison guards who, by the way, dare I say, are also fine, upstanding religious people as well. Folks, if you're gonna do these things, don't settle for halfway messures. Do them right. Do them the Christion way.

[ggrtrhhrtgg]

I'd always wondered why we punish people who kill by killing them? Isn't that hypocritical?

[Jared]

i personally don't have an opinion on this, but i do follow the news a bit.

If I killed some one or a bunch of people I think i'd rather sit in jail the rest of my life then get killed. However, if i were a murder or something, I can't really see the idea of getting the death sentence stopping me. people know the potential consequences when they do something, the fact if you get caught you might get the death penalty, would be just as likely as getting shot by a cop while your committing the crime.

if other countries want to use it then I say more power to them, I'm sure there are stats that would say there is just as much crime there.

as for Sadam, i don't know what he did, or who he messed around with, but if killing him on tv and in front of a room full of people helps the iraqi people, or who ever to move on and get the U.S out of the middle east and let them solve there shit and get back to life is a HUGE step forward no matter how you look at it.

and I'm sorry the poor guy had to hang, but if that what it takes then go for it

[MarcO]

A government or a state should never have the authority to decide who lives and who dies. Just because judicial systems are flawed doesn't mean we have to resort a "punishment" representing the least amount of imagination.

[Hal Johnson]

the Shiite-led government that assumed power in the American effort here is running the state under an undisguised sectarian banner."

This is a well written article on the impact of trying to impliment a democratic state in the tribal middle east.

link

I think this is the more important issue here, the morals and ethics related to the Death-penalty are really just secondary. The trial itslef should be under the most scrutiny, but then again, maybe thats a moot point.

[secondtube]

"A government or a state should never have the authority to decide who lives and who dies."

I agree 100% marco!

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

But how are we going to satisfy our bloodlust?

I finally let myself check this out yesterday. It's incredible how much violence we can let ourselves get away with once we package it in ritual. It seems lots of people are upset just because the ritual was breached by the hecklers; the end result - him being dead - is still the same.

[StoneMtn]

Here's a great slide-show (along with soundtrack) illustrating the close relationship between Saddam and the USA over the years:

Slide show here.

[phorbesie]

the music along with that was disturbing.

[edger]

if killing him on tv and in front of a room full of people helps the iraqi people, or who ever to move on and get the U.S out of the middle east and let them solve there shit and get back to life is a HUGE step forward no matter how you look at it.

and I'm sorry the poor guy had to hang, but if that what it takes then go for it

I am not convinced whatsoever that "that" is what it is going to take. In fact, I believe his (broadcasted) execution will only further complicate things for both the Iraqi people and the U.S. government.

The messy gets messier.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

The slideshow StoneMtn linked to is a good reminder of the staggering hypocrisy of it all that only makes his execution that much messier. There's been a bunch of talk I've seen in the last couple of days about how this early execution has managed to gloss over the post-'82 business he'd conducted with the US, and the atrocities he's committed with their approval.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

I'd never heard the Colosseum had gotten such a makeover.

Colosseum Lit over Death Penalty (BBC)

Rome has lit up the arches of the Colosseum to highlight Italy's support for a global ban on the death penalty.

Italy launched its campaign in the wake of former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein's execution, which sparked widespread protest among Italians.

Rome's mayor said the Colosseum, once a place of gladiatorial combat, was now a "symbol of peace and reconciliation".

Saddam Hussein was taunted at the gallows and mobile phone video of his last moments appeared on the internet.

Diplomatic drive

The BBC's Christian Fraser in Rome says since 1999 the Colosseum has been bathed in light every time a death sentence is commuted in the world or a country abolishes its death penalty.

However, this weekend it is lit in opposition to Saddam Hussein's death penalty and to the pending execution of his intelligence chief Barzan Ibrahim al-Tikriti and former chief judge Awad al-Bandar.

Rome's Mayor Walter Veltroni said: "The Colosseum originally was a place of persecution and unspeakable violence. But now it is a symbol of peace and reconciliation."

He said the lighting of the Colosseum would be a sign of encouragement for Prime Minister Romano Prodi's government, which this week began a diplomatic push to have the issue taken up by the UN General Assembly.

Mr Prodi has said no crime can justify one person killing another.

Italy presented proposals for a moratorium on the death penalty at the UN assembly in 1994 and again in 1995.

Last July the Italian parliament approved a cross-party motion urging the government to table yet another moratorium proposal but this came to nothing because of disagreement among Italy's EU partners.

[paisley]

for all Bush's bible thumpin he doesn't seem to have read the bits like:

"if thee is struck upon one cheek, rather than strike back, turn the other (cheek to be struck)"

"let he who is without sin cast the first stone"

or even the ever-so-confusingly worded:

"THOU SHALT NOT KILL."

[bradm]

Isn't it also true that the whole "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth" thing is actually supposed to give an upper limit on what retribution one is allowed to exact?

Aloha,

Brad

[paisley]

thats in the old testament... what jesus was sent down to earth to preach the corrections to (in the new testament - time of jesus and forward)

Matthew 5:38-48

38 "You have heard that it was said, "AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.' 39 "But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40 "If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also. 41 "Whoever forces you to go one mile, go with him two. 42 "Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you. 43 "You have heard that it was said, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.' 44 "But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 "For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 "If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48 "Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. (said Jesus... chronicled by Matthew)

grew up catholic, seriously planned on bein a priest... find theology interesting still but don't have a faith beyond maybe "wanna-be" buddhist

sober paisley thinks too much

Edited January 7, 2007 by Guest
sober

[paisley]

think the "eye for an eye" bit is interpreted somewhat differently between to the 3 "Big in Jerusalem" religions

thus the suicide bombings, 5000 round per second gun ships and funky to drive desert tanks