Phred Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 I always stuggled with that. It depends on what you mean. I believe that saying something sucks implies that it is bad, and univerally bad. Following that, You shouldn't use suck to describe a matter of taste, without the words "I think" in front of it. I happen to hate most pop music (not all) but it doesn't suck. There is some talent involved in most of it. For example, since I happen to like Dave Matthews Band it is proper for me to say, "I think that everyone who doesn't like DMB sucks". Now before you go saying that "I suck" for writing this, remember to put "I think..." in front of it. Phred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booche Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 I do it all the time Phred, "I think they suck." Which reminds me of a thread I was reading somewhere about a week ago or sumphin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PalacePrincess Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 i think.... the word "suck" has quite a broad meaning for one. it doesn't necessarily have to apply solely to the talent of an individual or band, but it can apply to the general opinion of the band/performer itself. dave matthews band is an excellent example -- while he can carry a tune, and play a guitar, and has throngs of people who will fall to his feet, hell, he even has a rock solid band to play with, i still think dave matthews sucks. sucks a whole lotta ass. i've seen dmb, i went to that concert an open-minded individual who didn't know a whole lot of his repertoire, but was interested to hear more based on what i knew, and left that concert (so far, the worst, most pathetic show i've been to), passionately thinking he's a total tool. it doesn't matter if you can play the piano like mozart and sing like [insert a fave here], if you have a crappy attitude, no passion, and a lackadaisical performance manner, you can still suck and blow all at once. on the flip side of that, you can be a band like the sex pistols, who have never claimed to be the most talented (in fact, they almost take pride in the opposite), who can and will deliver a show stopping performance (literally, mr. johnny rotten storm off the stage--we love you!), be tons of fun, have lots of energy, generally display a staggering amount of give'rrrrr, and manage to not suck in the least. in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberHippie Posted October 9, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Phred: Following that, You shouldn't use suck to describe a matter of taste, without the words "I think" in front of it.I agree. That's kinda my point, how can something suck when thousands think it's the best thing ever. However *I* can *think* it sucks... It's all about personal taste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hux Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 ...if I may raise a point....I believe appearance and image, must also be considered. The coolness of ones sunglasses, tank-top, and stage props, should NOT be ignored when assessing one's suckality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradm Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 quote: Originally posted by Dr. Huxtable: ...if I may raise a point....I believe appearance and image, must also be considered. The coolness of ones sunglasses, tank-top, and stage props, should NOT be ignored when assessing one's suckality. Agreed: they all add to it! Ducking, Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinw Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 I think there are two types of music fan - the joe six pack who listens to pop radio and knows all the tunes that are played 10 times a day, and ten there are music aficionados (usually self described) who actually know something about good music. I like to put myself in the category of people who know about good music. I have an appreciation for the complexity of learning and instrument and actually being able to play it, and I also have an appreciateion for the immense talent and practice it takes to jam with other musicians and have the output not sound like crapola. I think the main reason I listen to jambands is because they are talented and are good musicians. I can see that they know what they are doing and can do it well (for the mostpart). The Spice Girls, Backstreet boys, etc and anyone else who don't really play instruments aren't truely appreciated by me. I have heard enough of these pre-fabricated bands to know I don't enjoy their style and music. I appreciate that a couple of the spice girls were hot, but I don't enjoy their "music". Everyone has their own preference, and just because pre-teens run around loving stuff that makes me want to gag isn't a big deal. They probbaly don't like what I'm into either. I hate to think of the day when I have kids and they ask me to buy them a crap album and I have to let them do it so they can decide for themselves whether it is good or not! That will be interesting. It is a personal thing though - for example I think most of the electronic/trance/rave/electronic jamband stuff I have heard like Nero, New Deal, moe, etc SUCKS. Notice the "I think" back there. I know a lot of folks here appreciate their tunes. There is only so much time available and I would rather fill my ears and mind with good tunes I enjoy. SOme of the stuff I like people hate. Interesting post though. I can think of a lot more bands that suck, than ones that don't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biff Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 quote: I can think of a lot more bands that suck, than ones that don't! Your hinting at W.A.S.P. aren't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*five feet of fury* Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 im gonna use one of my favourite bands for an example here (shut up...i know this is pathetic). look at blink 182...i bet 90% of the people on here would say that they suck. and you know what? you guys are all correct. they do suck...with the exception of the drummer, travis barker. tom delonge & mark hoppus are nothing special when it comes to bassists & guitarists....they....SUCK!!! but yet, they are megapopular and super rich... so sucky bands can get big and develop a very large fan base (myself included). you dont have to be good anymore to make it big...as long as you're somewhat good looking, have a good stage presence and know the right people...you're set. travis barker is one of the best drummers of all time tho....he totally does NOT suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Low Roller Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 Travis Whatzisface is an awesome drummer. Check out the Transplants for evidence of that.... Tim Armstrong of Rancid, Travis Whatzisnoodle from Blink-182, and a host of other angry white guys. Their album is awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaimoe Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Low Roller: Tim Armstrong of Rancid Rancid does not suck. I find it hilarious in interviews when Chad Kroeger repeatley and with increasing anger defends Nickelback as a band " that does not suck ". They obviously do suck and I think Kroeger deep down knows it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondtube Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 quote: Music afficianados are people who read Pitchfork (not get roasted by them), people who discover bands like Broken Social Scene, Discovering bands like Broken Social Scene certainly does NOT make you a "music afficianados"... That just made me laugh... So lemme guess, if someone discovered The Flaming Lips, would that make them some kinda of music demigod? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mookie Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 quote: Originally posted by colinw: It is a personal thing though - for example I think most of the electronic/trance/rave/electronic jamband stuff I have heard like Nero, New Deal, moe, etc SUCKS. Notice the "I think" back there. Personally, i think you suck! what a silly grouping you made there.. notice the 'i think.' seriously, if you think Nero and moe are electronic/rave stuff you obviously have never listened to either! Cause they're not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondtube Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 nero is as close to electronic as you can get, without adding a dj and calling yourself tND. thats not a bad thing, but to dismiss them as a trance band(or better yet, tell someone they obviously haven't listened to the band...) is rather silly... moe, i wouldn't say is a trance band, i mean hell, dont they have three guitarists (not including bass!!!) i may be wrong, as i've only seen them twice, but i remember a guitar driven sound from them... In colin's case, the "i think" explains it all....it doesn't matter what he thinks...its all good... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradm Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 quote:Originally posted by secondtube: moe, i wouldn't say is a trance band, i mean hell, dont they have three guitarists (not including bass!!!) i may be wrong, as i've only seen them twice, but i remember a guitar driven sound from them... "Guitar-driven" is a good characterization of moe.'s sound. They have a drummer, bassist, two up-front guitarists (one of whom sometimes plays keys), and a guy in back who divides his time between guitar (usually acoustic, IIRC), keys, and percussion (including vibes or somesuch). Aloha, Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcO Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 quote: Originally posted by secondtube: In colin's case, the "i think" explains it all....it doesn't matter what he thinks...its all good... That's what you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phred Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 I love Nero, but the sound is definately electronic sounding. "I think" Nero are amazing, and I love seeing them live. A few years ago, I wouldn't have thought so. I would have respected the talent, but I would have thought "this is too ravey sounding". I was super into straight rock, and early 90s prog rock and such. Now, I love it. Music is so subjective. Hvae you ever tried to "convince" someone to love "your music"? Sometimes it is easy if you are trying to convince the "joe six pack type" described earlier. But have you ever tried to convince a music lover to love the music you love? There are many bands I love that many people (that I respect the opinion of) on this site would *think* suck. Radiohead, Nero, DMB, Dream theater, Harry Connick Jr., Deep purple ... I could sit down with you and play stuff I thought was great to "change your mind" and it probably wouldn't work. If you don't like it, you don't like it. I don't like: Ben Harper, ELP, Foo fighters, Eagles. And you probably can't change my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Musicface Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 Hey Phred, I'm actually quite surprised you don't like ELP, if only for Keith Emerson's chops. But that raises a good point very much like the one you made about nero - sometimes your expectations about what people will like or not like are just dead wrong. I think musical "taste" is actually a perfect term, because it's totally comparable to the sense of taste and what sorts of food we like. For instance, my father is West Indian and my mother is from Nova Scotia, so roti & curry or lobster are like coming home for me. But I totally understand why some people don't like these things - and interestingly, in both cases they rarely relate to the actual taste (for curry, it's usually the smell and for lobster, it's usually the look.) Taste in food, and I believe taste in music, develop at various times in your life 'cus you associate certain things with those things. For me, I'll always love cheesey "arena" bands like Styx, Journey, REO Speedwagon, etc. 'cus those are the first bands I got into as a kid when I first began to pick "my" music. Listening to "Mr. Roboto" & "Don't Cry" (Asia) will always be the summer of '83, the year we got our first cat and she had kittens, the year I travelled across the Rockies with my Dad & sister & grandparents, the first year I went to Arts camp... music links you in a powerful way to the place and time you heard it and what it meant to you. (BTW Kung, I've got to include Hall & Oats in here, although they have that R&B streak that most of these bands don't, but certainly they were part of that mix to me anway: "Maneater" & "Family Man" are big time memory tunes for me in the same vein.) *five feet of fury* was mentioning Blink-182 - hey, if all that stuff happened to me now and that's what was on the radio all summer, in 20 years they'd probably still be one of my favorite bands too. Now, there's certain kinds of music that were happening around that time that I never got into as kid (often because of the types of people who liked it, not so much the music itself) that as I grew I realized was quite interesting - things like The Cure, Housemartins, The Smiths, etc. But having not developed a soft spot for these acts early on, I've never really considered them "my" music in the same way as the other, admittedly usually cheeser stuff. I think back to one of my media classes at Ryerson and talking about advertising. We were talking about things like perfume ads and how stupid we thought they were. The prof made a great point: "you don't get those ads because they're not FOR YOU." I think (usually in a more subtle way 'cus generally music doesn't have a "hard" target like advertising) music is the same. Of course there's cross-overs in audience and things like that, but the reality is music that is "good" finds its audience. This relates a bit to Kung's post about New Deal, and the drug-using nature of many of their fans (often to the chagrin of the band.) I think this is an example of a band finding their audience even if there's aspects of that audience they don't like - apparently that's what their music is "for", if you will. Having said all this, there are obviously a few undeniable geniuses in the world, but for every Bach, Miles Davis, Hendrix, Dylan or Lennon, there's a zillion musicians just working, trying to do their best and hopefully connecting to an audience. But I think dividing things simply into "good" & "suck" is, well, too divisive. It's all about taste, everybody is different and it's hard to generalize. Peace, Mr. M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms.Huxtable Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 quote:Taste in food, and I believe taste in music, develop at various times in your life 'cus you associate certain things with those things.I wholeheartedly agree Mr. M. I can't stand Pink Floyd because of some shit in my past that I associate with it. I know they don't suck though. I can totally see why people like them. There are some bands that absolutely do suck by my standards. Fortunately for them, not every MTV viewer has the same set of standards or taste as me and many of you, and they can make a living playing what I perceive to be shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Musicface Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 quote: Originally posted by CyberHippie: Jay - ever had curried lobster? Of course!!! Although generally curried lobster is of the Indian type as opposed to the North Atlantic or "homard" (scientific name: "homarus americanus" FYI) that we think of as lobster in Canada. The biggest difference is that only Atlantic lobster has the big tasty claws. Still, curried lobster, yeh, that's good eats. Once of my fave meals ever was a curried lobster followed by creme brulee at Rosewater Super Club - and the best part of all was that Karen and I got that in a silent auction for $15! - M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradm Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 quote:Originally posted by kung: And not getting...the Flaming Lips even remotely just betrays your ignorance.Or your profound distaste at their pretentious posing. There's a difference between taking your work seriously and taking yourself seriously: the former is imperative and the latter disastrous. Unfortunately, The Flaming Lips* have got it completely backwards. Aloha, Brad * Based on the shows I've heard and the show I saw at moe.down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Musicface Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 Oh, and the food talk made me think of another related point - I've eaten at some of the better restaurants in North America 'cus my wife and I like good food - I wouldn't say we're "gourmets" but we like to find good restaurants we've heard or read about when we travel. And I'd like to think I appreciate good food, good beer, etc. But hell, some days all I want is friggin' Big Mac and some fries. I know full well it's shit food, but enjoying that I don't think diminishes my enjoyment of truly great food. They're for different moods, different effect. Music can be the same. And Kung, good point on Fripp but remember that he also understands why not everyone gets what he does and why other things appeal to different people - and that in the end it's just music and shouldn't be taken so seriously. Check out the section about halfway down this (very long!) page that begins with The "Starless" Period. http://www.progressiveears.com/frippbook/ch06.htm I know there are similar quotes elsewhere but this is the only one I could find online on short notice. - M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gentlemonkey Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 Arguing about if music is good or sucks is like arguing if theres a god.. everyone believes in their own god, their own opinion, and wants to defend it, trying to hold true to what they think/ or believe they should think. Being subjective is impossible- when people are talking about something they feel something about. Its cool to like whatever you like, and if you can't just enjoy something without having to justify it to whoever, then maybe you don't really like it? Maybe you think you should like it because someone you respect told you you should..? Maybe someone you think is cool said something to make you think something sucks? Thats why opinions are like assholes- everyones got one, and everyone got them from someone else. (thanks mum and dad) Time to break a personal rule- One thing that I would like to say though is that although nero does have 4 (of 30+ original) tunes that have electronic themed jams.. that does not make us an electro-trance band. The New Deal, Particle, Sts9 are electronic themed bands, nero is a rock band. and moe.. what are you talking about dude? moe. is totally 100% a rock'n'roll band.. they lean way more towards southern rock and I don't think they have one aspect of electro trance jamband in them.. they are WAY more in the vein of allmans/ littlefeat/ zeppelin, with a little Blue Oyster Cult and a little Dead and a little sabbath, and a little of everything rock and good, but you will NEVER hear a 4 on the floor trance jam from moe. (not that I dont love a good 4 on the floor house jam). anyway, It's just frustrating to see people lump bands, sharing opinions with masses, when obviously havent even heard them, or given them half a chance- ignorance personified. oh and secondtube, it doesnt matter who anyone is to me.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared Posted October 9, 2003 Report Share Posted October 9, 2003 caution jam tonite at the goose and firken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmellyPants Posted October 10, 2003 Report Share Posted October 10, 2003 ummmm caution jam sucks dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.