MP3 levy - here we go again

[Northern Wish]

WOW.

[larry_llama]

Am I allowed to rip my own CD?

If I lose the CD do I have to delete the MP3?

If I scratch it?

If I throw it in the garbage?

If I donate it to Value Village?

If I give it to my sister?

If I sell it?

If I make a mixed tape for the car out of a dozen CDs, and then sell one of those CDs do I have to erase over the song in the mix that came form that disc?

Am I allowed to PVR a tv show and keep it forever?

Am I allowed to PVR a digital radio station?

Am I allowed to time shift from broadcast radio?

Am I allowed to record one song from broadcast radio?

The lines are all way too dim. The world has changed. It does no good to try to paint it in black and white, which it was back when there was no such thing as home recording gear.

The "100% right vs 100% wrong" moral/legal high ground argument does not help anyone, including the artists.

Edited November 26, 2010 by Guest

[bouche]

still trying to figure out how walking into a store and taking property is the same as recording a stream of zero's and one's.

[ollie]

still trying to figure out how walking into a store and taking property is the same as recording a stream of zero's and one's.

That stream of zero's and one's (nice attempt at obfuscation, btw) has a financial cost when purchased through legitimate channels. By bypassing that process you are in effect stealing.

[Booche]

bouche, do you honestly believe you would have been introduced to someone like Ryan Adam's music if people didnt pay for it in the early years of his career?

[ollie]

The "100% right vs 100% wrong" moral/legal high ground argument does not help anyone, including the artists.

Sure, and I'm not as harsh on this topic as I'm probably coming across but when intelligent, reasonable people who should know better start peddling self delusional arguments in order to justify their behaviour I have to call them out on it.

Kev talks about consumers getting fucked yet he's one of the first people to share a SendSpace-type link whenever an album or artist is mentioned. I respect you Kev and understand you do it out of generosity but do you not see at least a little bit of a double standard there?

Basically, can we not consider this issue with a modicum more clarity?

[Velvet]

If there was a porn site that charged $12.95 per month for you to view all their content and I decided to download all their content and put it on my website where you could download it all and view it for free, would you or I being doing anything wrong?

[Booche]

Where do I sign up Velvet?

[bouche]

still trying to figure out how walking into a store and taking property is the same as recording a stream of zero's and one's.

That stream of zero's and one's (nice attempt at obfuscation' date=' btw) has a financial cost when purchased through legitimate channels. By bypassing that process you are in effect stealing.

[/quote']

explain then who's financial burden it is to support bandwidth for Demonoid where booche sent me a link for the Tribute to Jerry disc that he was downloading? If someone hacked into the iTunes store or any digital store and took digital copies without paying, that's stealing.

iTunes is primarily DRM free so whatever you purchase you can freely play on any device. Giving a copy to a friend who wasn't going to buy it anyway isn't the definition of stealing.

[bouche]

bouche, do you honestly believe you would have been introduced to someone like Ryan Adam's music if people didnt pay for it in the early years of his career?

I repeat... huh? what sort of connections does your brain make? Bong much?

[fluffhead77]

If there was a porn site that charged $12.95 per month for you to view all their content and I decided to download all their content and put it on my website where you could download it all and view it for free, would you or I being doing anything wrong?

Do you have a newsletter I may subscribe to, sir? I like the cut of your jib.

[bouche]

If there was a porn site that charged $12.95 per month for you to view all their content and I decided to download all their content and put it on my website where you could download it all and view it for free, would you or I being doing anything wrong?

ever heard of Google Images? It's already going on.

COMPLETELY NSFW WARNING unless you have safesearch turned on.

[Booche]

I repeat... huh? what sort of connections does your brain make? Bong much?

Just.Fucking.Try.And.Think.Beyond.The.Realm.Of.Your.Meager.Little.Bubble.World.

[color:purple]Obviously artists must make albums for free and then they give them away.

If people didnt pay for music you could kiss the majority of it goodbye. Would you work for Transport if they didnt pay you?

In the end, are you just whining because the next iPhone is going to cost you a little extra? Ooooh, look at that. People pay for them. Hmmmmm.

[TheAlphaNerd]

So I am supposed to feel bad for not contributing money into the hands of a broken system?

The majority of big record labels who are crying about all the lost money are the same people who sign gullible young talent... have them spend way too much money on production and take large portions of the profits to pay back the "investment".

It is a disgusting broken, and might I say BLOATED system.

Also think about the distribution model of the CD... The various levels of manufacturing to get all the raw materials necessary to make the disc, the packaging, and the sleaves... not only is it wasteful, but it costs money. Then all the muckluck of shipping things back and forth between manufactoring plants, printing facillities, warehouses, store fronts, it just frustrates me!~

I understand the need to make a profit, and I understand the need to run a business... but the selling of physical medium is a wasteful process that I just don't feel like supporting.

We as consumers have spent too much time wasting our money on wasteful unnecessary systems to line the pockets of a few executives who have put more creativity into marketing platforms than in to the material itself.

Kev has it right... in both his beliefs and in his sharing. Intellectual property is a myth... and we have been wasting time, resources, and money on its distribution.

[Velvet]

If there was a porn site that charged $12.95 per month for you to view all their content and I decided to download all their content and put it on my website where you could download it all and view it for free' date=' would you or I being doing anything wrong?[/quote']

ever heard of Google Images? It's already going on.

COMPLETELY NSFW WARNING unless you have safesearch turned on.

I think I'm starting to understand your argument. If it's already going on there's nothing wrong with it. Your posts are making more sense now.

[bagochips]

The recording industry can't put the genie back in the bottle but we don't have to be such assholes about it.

I'm comfortable with my morally ambiguous behavior regarding this issue. I'm curious how you feel about second-hand CD and record shops, Ollie? Have you ever shopped in one?

Edited November 26, 2010 by Guest
Pointless baiting.

[bouche]

I repeat... huh? what sort of connections does your brain make? Bong much?

Just.Fucking.Try.And.Think.Beyond.The.Realm.Of.Your.Meager.Little.Bubble.World.

[color:purple]Obviously artists must make albums for free and then they give them away.

If people didnt pay for music you could kiss the majority of it goodbye. Would you work for Transport if they didnt pay you?

In the end' date=' are you just whining because the next iPhone is going to cost you a little extra? Ooooh, look at that. People pay for them. Hmmmmm.[/quote']

soooo...let's put this into perspective...you're attacking me for pointing out that putting a levy on all electronic devices is a preposterous notion.

and from your stand point, you don't ever download music from torrent sites, tv shows, dvd's, etc.

am I correct so far?

[bouche]

I think I'm starting to understand your argument. If it's already going on there's nothing wrong with it. Your posts are making more sense now.

i'm not suggesting that at all. twisting words. i didn't even say that.

just saying that your porn site isn't gonna fly. you're gonna get in trouble. don't do it.

[TheAlphaNerd]

I think the real question is if they impose a levy why should the money go to companies that already make significant incomes rather than to support arts funding to help artists that do not have the loot?

[ollie]

I understand the need to make a profit, and I understand the need to run a business... but the selling of physical medium is a wasteful process that I just don't feel like supporting.

Aren't you going to miss record stores?

We as consumers have spent too much time wasting our money on wasteful unnecessary systems to line the pockets of a few executives who have put more creativity into marketing platforms than in to the material itself.

*Only* a few executives have profited from the music industry? Artists don't profit from it at all? Nigga please!

Kev has it right... in both his beliefs and in his sharing. Intellectual property is a myth... and we have been wasting time, resources, and money on its distribution.

So who's going to pay for studio time once people stop buying records?

[ollie]

I'm comfortable with my morally ambiguous behavior regarding this issue. I'm curious how you feel about second-hand CD and record shops, Ollie? Have you ever shopped in one?

I don't have a particular opinion on them and yes I have.

I see where you have the exchange of music on a physical medium without the artist, label et al being compensated for it. But there is at least a transfer of ownership whereby the original owner no longer has access to the material. This isn't the same as the owner making the material available in a digital format, retaining ownership and allowing an unknown multiple of people to acquire the material that they would otherwise have to pay for.

[hamilton]

I understand the need to make a profit, and I understand the need to run a business... but the selling of physical medium is a wasteful process that I just don't feel like supporting.

That's hardly the point though, is it? Even if the physical product were eliminated and artists or companies only sold digital copies (whether MP3 or FLAC), an awfully large number of people listening to the music would have downloaded it illegally rather than purchasing it. No one is currently forcing you to support a wasteful physical medium, but I'm willing to bet that you aren't getting all of your music from the iTunes store, are you?

[bouche]

Aren't you going to miss record stores?

Record stores have been gone for a long time. We've got media stores now that can't even keep up with the times. Amazon accounts for more DVD/Bluray sales than HMV, and HMV only got into selling movies and music killing all the mom and pop shops that you're probably thinking of.

There are lots of online record shops that are doing great, but they're using a strategy that'll ensure they do fine.

They have to battle iTunes, Amazon, and free shit like Grooveshark.

For example: Insound sells ALL formats. Basically this is what the marketplace is. We're not paying for music anymore...we're paying for formats.

Back to HMV, they are trying to figure out how to stay in business, and it's not because of people downloading music.

What do record stores have to do with protecting Artists rights anyways?

Back to HMV

[ollie]

What I should have said was, "Aren't you going to miss shopping in record stores?" I still like to browse the aisles, hold a disc in my hand and check it out.

And once again hamilton says exactly what I wanted to say.

[bouche]

i forgot to paste this quote.

For music retailers, stretching their brand is a matter of survival. HMV is the last major music chain left, after an array of retailers ranging from Tower Records to Virgin and Sam the Record Man have been forced to close. HMV is fighting the same forces: digital downloads as well as discounter Wal-Mart and big-box rivals Best Buy and Future Shop, which use CDs and DVDs as a loss leader.