If you could change a rule in sports?

[TheSloth]

Roller? Is that you.

I actually thought you were getting pretty defensive over me simply pointing out one of the things you said was kind of worded poorly. It's also the first time I brought up Phds so I believe you're the one hung up on it. Have a reread when you've calmed down, try some milk and maybe a warm bath.

[Schwa.]

hahaha, i love this forum.

fuck all of you.

[Hal Johnson]

Take that first article I posted - what's "sensational" about it? The fact that you don't agree (with physics)?

Obviously your missing my point completely. You dont think there's physics involved with hitting a ball in cricket? You can write a paragraph on the biomechanics of swinging a cricket bat that would make it seem like its the most intrigueing, hardest thing in the world to do if you wanted to.

[Hal Johnson]

Roller? Is that you.

I actually thought you were getting pretty defensive over me simply pointing out one of the things you said was kind of worded poorly. It's also the first time I brought up Phds so I believe you're the one hung up on it. Have a reread when you've calmed down, try some milk and maybe a warm bath.

I can see how I might have come off as defensive. Sorry. I do get defensive about phd's though - its a hard thing to acheive and if theres ever a legit expert on something that would be it, imo. When peoplle shrug off the title, my immediate question is, okay, who is more of an expert then?

And, for the record, research on attention can and usually is completely qualitative - im doing some right now on dual task reaction time. So eat it!!

Edited March 8, 2011 by Guest

[TheSloth]

A) I'm trolling you

I just curled up a piece of paper and hit a phd in the back, he came over and looked at what you posted in regard to how you feel about yourself/acadamia and laughed. Smartest guy we have on staff only has his masters, all the Phds around here defer to him for almost everything.

[Hal Johnson]

Ill go have my bath and warm milk now.

[TheSloth]

I still love you Hal and like I said, I accept the science you're putting down, 100%.

[Jaimoe]

These guys are the truest athletes. Too bad darts wasn't more like this (love Rowan Atkinson's voice-over):

[Hal Johnson]

Word.

[Booche]

WHAT THE SHIT DID THIS BECOME?

Holy fuck boys. Hopefully Schwa and AD can bring a return to glory instead of what I just witnessed.

[AD]

Hal

You wanted science, so I pointed you to an article with actual numbers and science in it.

You say the article is "sensational" but can't demonstrate how. It describes, with numbers, science and some prose, some of the athletics behind an F1 driver.

Also, if you read my comments and then read your description of my comments, you'll find that you're the one sensationalizing things.

And, yes there are physics in play in cricket no doubt. For a select few on the pitch, for very short spurts, when they're on the field. They're athletes yes.

[TheSloth]

Sorry, I could point out that a dual task reaction time test is quantitave not qualitative as Hal said but that was obviously just a mistake in typing by Hal and I knew exactly what he was talking about.

[Schwa.]

Sloth and Hal:

[TheSloth]

And, yes there are physics in play in cricket no doubt. For a select few on the pitch, for very short spurts, when they're on the field. They're athletes yes.

Finest athletes this side of the Ganges I'll have you know.

[Hal Johnson]

Hal

You wanted science, so I pointed you to an article with actual numbers and science in it.

You say the article is "sensational" but can't demonstrate how. It describes, with numbers, science and some prose, some of the athletics behind an F1 driver.

Also, if you read my comments and then read your description of my comments, you'll find that you're the one sensationalizing things.

And, yes there are physics in play in cricket no doubt. For a select few on the pitch, for very short spurts, when they're on the field. They're athletes yes.

Im not gonna repeat myself again. Our frame of reference is just plain different from one another, and we'll have to leave it at that.

[Hal Johnson]

Sorry, I could point out that a dual task reaction time test is quantitave not qualitative as Hal said but that was obviously just a mistake in typing by Hal and I knew exactly what he was talking about.

d'oh. Thanks though.

[AD]

OK, I'm not sure how I feel about this method of evaluating athletes but others seem to like it so here goes.

ENDURANCE: The ability to continue to perform a skill or action for long periods of time. Example: Lance Armstrong

Testing sessions are sometimes over 100 laps. Race weekends are 2 1.5-hour-long practice sessions, qualifying (45 minutes if you make it to Q3), and the race (90-120 minutes). Sitting in the car with the lactic acid in legs and no stretches plus braking and the G-forces on body and neck certainly make F1 intense in this category.

STRENGTH: The ability to produce force. Example: NFL linebackers.

Helmet and HANS weigh 7kg. With G-forces (up to 5G) that makes your head weigh 35kg. To quote the article from before "imagine having five large fire extinguishers strapped to your head for two hours" and staying upright while doing everything else. Hands are strong on wheel, shifters, and brake diff. Arms are super strong and you're unable to stretch during a race. Legs are strong - brakes need 80kg of downward pressure to engage. 1500 times a race. Generating 4G each time.

POWER: The ability to produce strength in the shortest possible time. Example: Barry Bonds.

Braking example again - power to the brake quickly, precisely, and just the right amount to do what driver needs to do.

SPEED: The ability to move quickly. Example: Marion Jones, Maurice Green.

Hands / arms / feet are moving quickly all the time.

AGILITY: The ability to change direction quickly. Example: Derek Jeter, Mia Hamm.

Not sure of an example for this one.

FLEXIBILITY: The ability to stretch the joints across a large range of motion. Example: Gymnasts, divers.

Also not sure of example for this.

NERVE: The ability to overcome fear. Example: High-board divers, race-car drivers, ski jumpers.

Pretty obvious - open wheel racing at 200mph.

DURABILITY: The ability to withstand physical punishment over a long period of time. Example: NBA/NHL players.

Feeling every bump in the road at 200mph, up to 60 degrees in cockpit for 90-120 minutes on raceday, lactic acid build-up, different G-forces all the time, no breaks, crashes

HAND-EYE COORDINATION: The ability to react quickly to sensory perception. Example: A hitter reacting to a breaking pitch; a drag racer timing acceleration to the green light.

This one is pretty obvious. Steering, shifting, getting off the line at lights-out, passing, avoidance etc etc etc

ANALYTIC APTITUDE: The ability to evaluate and react appropriately to strategic situations. Example: Joe Montana reading a defense; basketball point guard on a fast break.

Pretty obvious too. When to apply KERS boost, drafting, passing, not passing, pit strategy, tire conservation vs shredding them.

Lots more reasons. These guys are ELITE ATHLETES by any definition.

[Esau.]

Endurance, strength, mental awareness, agility, reaction times, nerve, durability, fitness and so on, are all things athletes need to excel at if they wish to be the best, professional, successful, whatever.

I won't make a point by point post, and just keep it short. Although I appreciate ya'll who did. Great points.

Hopefully, this makes sense.

- I believe hockey players and F1 racers both require great amounts of agility (for example), but not the same agility.

- It does take a shit ton of nerve to race any car at high speeds, no argument there. But it also takes a ton of nerve to skate into a corner at full speed with a 225lb+ guy also at full speed following/hitting you. Just not the same nerve. (Anyone who says different I doubt has played at a junior or higher level)

Anyway, I believe those guys are athletes. No question. But, I disagree they are any more of an athlete, then say hockey, football or lacrosse players etc.

[badams]

Anyway, I believe those guys are athletes. No question. But, I disagree they are any more of an athlete, then say hockey, football or lacrosse players etc.

:clapclap: :clapclap: :clapclap:

[AD]

It's a tough and probably innappropriate comparison for sure.

[hamilton]

It always boils down to this....if driving is a sport, if darts is a sport.....is tiddlywinks a sport. Or jenga.

Ding ding ding!

Certainly F1 drivers are athletic, but I don't consider them athletes because I don't consider auto racing a sport. Figure skaters are *extremely* athletic, but I don't count that as a sport, either. (Millions of people, obviously, disagree with me.)

Why? Auto racing, like horse racing, depends far too much on non-human elements. Sure the drivers are very important (as are the jockeys, and trainers), but ultimately the car (and the horse) is the main player - and the car is a product of engineering, not athleticism. Of course equipment is important in hockey and football, but you can still play the game without the equipment (except for the skates and stick, of course). A competion? Yes. A game, of sorts? Sure. A sport? I dunno.

Figure skating is more like an athletic art. I don't consider it a sport because the judges are too integral in deciding who wins. "I think A's jump was better than B's jump, even though they were both good" isn't the way to decide a competition. That would be like not counting a goal in hockey because it wasn't pretty. "Well, that just went in off the defenceman's knee, so it's not as worthy as the one where the guy deked out the entire team to put it in the net." Sure referees and umpires are vital too, but they make hundreds of calls every match, some good some bad; they don't look at the performance afterwards and then make a judgment on which team played better.

So sure, F1 drivers, figure skaters, astronauts, ballerinas and some totally-banging chicks are athletic as all fuck, but I'm not sure any of them are playing sports.

[Hal Johnson]

Anyway' date=' I believe those guys are athletes. No question. But, I disagree they are any more of an athlete, then say hockey, football or lacrosse players etc.

[/quote']

:clapclap: :clapclap: :clapclap:

:doh: This is what Ive been saying all along.

[Hal Johnson]

OK, I'm not sure how I feel about this method of evaluating athletes but others seem to like it so here goes.

ENDURANCE: The ability to continue to perform a skill or action for long periods of time. Example: Lance Armstrong

Testing sessions are sometimes over 100 laps. Race weekends are 2 1.5-hour-long practice sessions, qualifying (45 minutes if you make it to Q3), and the race (90-120 minutes). Sitting in the car with the lactic acid in legs and no stretches plus braking and the G-forces on body and neck certainly make F1 intense in this category.

STRENGTH: The ability to produce force. Example: NFL linebackers.

Helmet and HANS weigh 7kg. With G-forces (up to 5G) that makes your head weigh 35kg. To quote the article from before "imagine having five large fire extinguishers strapped to your head for two hours" and staying upright while doing everything else. Hands are strong on wheel, shifters, and brake diff. Arms are super strong and you're unable to stretch during a race. Legs are strong - brakes need 80kg of downward pressure to engage. 1500 times a race. Generating 4G each time.

POWER: The ability to produce strength in the shortest possible time. Example: Barry Bonds.

Braking example again - power to the brake quickly, precisely, and just the right amount to do what driver needs to do.

SPEED: The ability to move quickly. Example: Marion Jones, Maurice Green.

Hands / arms / feet are moving quickly all the time.

AGILITY: The ability to change direction quickly. Example: Derek Jeter, Mia Hamm.

Not sure of an example for this one.

FLEXIBILITY: The ability to stretch the joints across a large range of motion. Example: Gymnasts, divers.

Also not sure of example for this.

NERVE: The ability to overcome fear. Example: High-board divers, race-car drivers, ski jumpers.

Pretty obvious - open wheel racing at 200mph.

DURABILITY: The ability to withstand physical punishment over a long period of time. Example: NBA/NHL players.

Feeling every bump in the road at 200mph, up to 60 degrees in cockpit for 90-120 minutes on raceday, lactic acid build-up, different G-forces all the time, no breaks, crashes

HAND-EYE COORDINATION: The ability to react quickly to sensory perception. Example: A hitter reacting to a breaking pitch; a drag racer timing acceleration to the green light.

This one is pretty obvious. Steering, shifting, getting off the line at lights-out, passing, avoidance etc etc etc

ANALYTIC APTITUDE: The ability to evaluate and react appropriately to strategic situations. Example: Joe Montana reading a defense; basketball point guard on a fast break.

Pretty obvious too. When to apply KERS boost, drafting, passing, not passing, pit strategy, tire conservation vs shredding them.

Lots more reasons. These guys are ELITE ATHLETES by any definition.

So your interpretation trumps the interpretation of a panel of sport scietists from the US olympic committee?

[Jaimoe]

Although, Hal, those scientists from the Olympic committee list a dubious choice for agility, Derek Jeter, along with cheaters Marion Jones and Maurice Greene, plus "alleged" dopers, Lance Armstrong and Barry Bonds.

[Hal Johnson]

They have to pick names that the general population is familiar with.

The development model is used by Physical Health and Education Canada, the Long Term Athlete Development plan, the Coaching Association of Canada, and obviously the US Olympic Committee, to name a few. Its not just some arbitrary means of evaluation some guy came up with one night while drinking with his buddies.