Douglas Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 quote:Originally posted by secondtube: last thing we need is another jamband who can't jam, but try for the sake of trying. I hear ya...but could you just imagine the places that Johnny could take us??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondtube Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 honestly, i really dont. i dont want to say too much, as i'm not the most familiar with radiohead. the, "last thing we need is another jamband who can't jam" comment was more generic. I dont know radiohead well enough to estimate the jamming ability... I just know Radiohead is extremely respected in our cicle of friends, and i dont think they really need to change that. BUt, if they do, all the power to them. Now the Tragically Hip should not even attempt to jam. That is a PERFECT example of how a band should just stick to what they know how to do. The musicians are simply not strong enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggrtrhhrtgg Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 "sweet Melinda the peasants call her the goddess of gloom-- she speaks good english and invites her up to her room-- and you are so kind and careful not to go to her too soon-- and she steals your mind and leaves you howlin' at the moon" OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paisley Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 johnny is amazing as a musician, someone who is amazingly well versed in all styles of music and as someone who loves every interesting gadget that affects sound if you catch the right show, they give you a 15/20 minute space jam one of the only so called pop bands that gets discussed on this board first radiohead show I saw I got dragged to against my will thinking "oh great, brit pop"... before they were popular... left me with my jaw hanging... they play it like they mean it new jamband definition: a band who play with their hearts according to their mood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Musicface Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 quote: a few minutes of improvising during a jammed out tune, during a two to three hour show doesn't cut it. Hmmmm, I dunno man... Times and my very rough descriptions of the versions from How The West Was Won: Dazed and Confused - 25:25 Spacey solo guitar, trading off between guitar and vocals, like probably 25 tempo and mood changes, etc. As definitely jam rock as anything I've ever heard from Phish, The Dead, you name it. Whole Lotta Love - 23:07 More trippy guitar and vocal trade offs, then a medley through a bunch of oldies rock tunes with killer solo breaks and lots of rhythmic improv before getting back to the head and ending. Bring It On Home - 9:29 Bluesy with lots of improvised rhythmic changes, tempo changes, breaks, etc. Since I've Been Loving You - 8:01 Long blues guitar soloing sections, nothing too radical but lots of "traditional"-style jamming. Moby Dick - 19:23 Granted this is mostly a drum solo, but WHAT a drummer! And hey, don't The Dead often have a long drum solo (or duet I suppose) section in their shows? Can't remember what they call that thou... So there you go, you've got the better part of 90 minutes in what I'd take it is a fairly representative Zeppelin show dedicated largely to songs with a huge jam component. Still don't think they're a jamband secondtube? I need to be sure of this, 'cus as noted earlier you're the authoritative source here! - M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark tonin Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 Originally posted by secondtube: ".............. rather than everyone arguing whether a band is a jamband or not, just ask me, i'll set ya'll straight. " I'd like to put a motion on the board ... Whenever a clear consensus cannot be reached, secondtube will decide whether or not a band is a jamband. His say will be final, and it is his choice whether or not he backs up his decision with any reasoning. Thanks for the thoughtful discussion and the many laughs. I find that I don't have as much time these days to read everything and reply as often as I'd like to, but I couldn't stay away from this thread. Peace, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 quote:Originally posted by paisley: if you catch the right show, they give you a 15/20 minute space jamAny like this available for download/trade that you know of? I'd love to get my little green fingers on that!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggrtrhhrtgg Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 how bout we classify Led Zepplin as former Jamband, since they are retired... (boo to that) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondtube Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 but, aren't those jams reminicent of how they normally play the music? i'm not the hugest zep fan, so i can't compare versions....but it strikes me as, thats how those songs are normally played... I dont know, you got me. I dont know enough about Zep to keep this discussion going. I like em, whether they 'jam', or just 'rock'. Time to smoke a bong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcO Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 The question "who likes jambands" is much different than "what is a jamband". Seems to me it's only since the mid 1990's that the "jamband" term has really stuck and developed a multi-faceted, organized culture around it. So, now you have bands that are forming to be a "jamband" (whatever that is) because there is now a support structure for them to plug into. There are many positive things about this, things like this board and the good things we discuss almost daily. Returning to the thrust of kung's opening post here, it seems to me his main concern - or challenge - is whether or not that culture and community sets high enough standards as compared to other musical communities, and the (moderate) success of a band like SCI galls him to no end because he doesn't find the depth and balls in their music as there should - or could - be. Am I right about this, kung, or way off? The next step is his raising of this perceived deficiency, asking whether anyone else sees it, whether it is valid (ie: the effects of recreational drugs on the listener's judgment) and the reaction this elicits. It seems for some, simply raising the issue is of such a combative, self-serving nature ("complaining") that it should be discouraged. But I don't agree. It should be raised, even over and over and over again, if it doesn't take. Getting back to the question "who likes jambands", one way to think about that is to think about this: using a general framework of who is or isn't active in the current "jamband" scene, and given the number of options on any given week to see one or more of these bands, how many of those bands do you actively listen to in your private time as opposed to go see during your social hours? Supporting a scene full of well-intentioned, wonderful people (which I honestly think all of us are) is one thing. Putting the music in your heart and making it yours to love and cherish is something else altogether. That requires a subjective level of quality that is personal to each of us. How many bands and artists fall above or under that level for you? All of them? Very few of them? Your answer to that question doesn't make you any more or less entitled to go see shows and tap into the energy and compassion of a truly unique scene (and give some back) but do you come home with the love of the scene in your heart, the true love of the music that has deeply touched you, neither or both? I for one tend to be very selective in what I want to listen to in my own private time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggrtrhhrtgg Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 didn't they all use to jam??? I mean most of the sixties, bands?? I know Jimi did, have a sick version of Manic Depression around here somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velvet Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 Labels come after-the-fact, and have less to do with the music involved than the people involved in the categorization. What you are doing is trying to put albums into specific bins, when really they belong in multiple bins. It can never be done in a way that will keep everybody happy, but it usually can be done in such a way as to give people a basic idea of what they are in for. I like musical labels, I like being able to describe a band and have them described to me, even if it does boil down to the whole 'dancing about architecture' thing. Blah blah blah. ps If The Flaming Lips are any indication, then yes, I believe if Radiohead played Bonnaroo they would be embraced as a jamband. Love 'em or hate 'em, I would never describe The Lips as a jamband, and lots of people do nowadays. pps Blah blah bablah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondtube Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 ya but isn't the discussion, what makes the band a jamband, the fact they 'jam' or the fact the 'jam' is improvised? i believe the jam needs to be improvised to be a jamband. if a band has a commonly placed 'jam', found in teh same place in the song, each time played, they aren't quite a jamband. but if that 'jam' is played differently, and during the jam each player is improvising off one another, THEN, they are a jamband... but i do like Mr. Tonin's suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paisley Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 quote: Originally posted by Sally: quote: Originally posted by paisley: if you catch the right show, they give you a 15/20 minute space jam Any like this available for download/trade that you know of? I'd love to get my little green fingers on that!!! I'll keep my ears open and let ya know... been busy trying to download 30 years of Grateful Dead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kung Posted February 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 I think I'm going to be sick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Musicface Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 quote: Originally posted by secondtube: but, aren't those jams reminicent of how they normally play the music? i'm not the hugest zep fan, so i can't compare versions....but it strikes me as, thats how those songs are normally played... Yeh, I see what you're saying, but arguably you could say the same thing about Allman Brothers shows of the same era, or even some early Dead shows (at least the few I've heard.) But yeh I agree, we're getting a little too nit-picky here - enjoy your bong man! - M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paisley Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 LOL... had to get up from the computer for that one if you watch "Meeting People is Easy" there's a lot of footage of Johnny sitting on the floor playin with his effects while the rest of the band works with it its not Ween pulling off a 25 minute Dazed and Confused though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggrtrhhrtgg Posted February 13, 2004 Report Share Posted February 13, 2004 aaaaahhhhh here it is "manic depressions' a frustrating mess.......... sweet music, sweet music, sweet music,badababababbaaaaa, badababababbaaaaaaa, well my woman, she sooo willing, she's the cause of my pain.... badababababbaaaaaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Musicface Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 quote: Originally posted by kung: I think I'm going to be sick. Ah kung suck it up, this is way more interesting then watching you and number 2 go back and forth on if SCI suck or not with no chance of anyone changing their mind. But hey, if you still want to be sick, go nuts. In fact here's some help: - M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kung Posted February 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 So before we put this one nicely to bed, and some will rightly call this a cheap attempt to vault over secondtube in the appreciation rankings, all I'm ever looking for is a little give and take. Everyone knows when one party is giving a little bit up, negotiating is leaving something on the table. MarcO captured the spirit well I think. Is one entitled to expressing their opinion. If this is not given there's a bit of legwork to be done. It's interesting to use the specifics of one situation to point at other phenomena. Something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paisley Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 whatta thread! some mindwarps in there, a fine display some arguments have no end, or even a beginning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weirdness Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 I don't always give my little buddy credit but he really is the dude who got me into this whole Phish thing. Him and Skippy they were the first ones to get popped for crimes of the mind. He's not gonna win me over with sheer force of reasoning but I could see where if you weren't mashed on gobloads of molly and a red haired white kid you might not dig the Cheese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booche Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 Ok, I'll FINALLY be the one to bite (you pussies) Kung, didnt you once have backstage passes/interview set up for a SCI and then have it all revoked because of a review on Jambase? Does this 'String Cheese Incident' have anything to do with your obvious and overly vocal hatred towards their music or are you the type of guy that simply holds a grudge? (Yeah, same question, but I expect 2 answers) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weirdness Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 YOU'RE GONNA PAY FOR HIJACKING MY IDENTITY KUNG!!! Now that you've sucked me into this rather unprovocative thread, here's my take on the whole thing. Trying to label music is futile. Call it jam, call it rock, call it jamgrass, whatever. People are always trying to label and categorize things and that's where you limit the whole concept and miss the entire point. Music is about the endless limit of creativity, combined with the excellence of musicianship. The fact that the well has not dried up even at this point is a testimonial to that fact. Pure and simple, there are two types of music: Music that sucks, and music that doesn't suck. If it's the shit, than it's the shit and people will recognize it. Furthermore, if it's the shit, than it will stand the test of time and will be recognized long after any particular style is out of fashion or the artists themselves are long since dead. Great art is timeless, regardless of what medium you are talking about. Great art is great art, pure and simple. Nothing more, nothing less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paisley Posted February 14, 2004 Report Share Posted February 14, 2004 here here Weirdness well put whats in a name? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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