kung Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 So this thread should probably be called Ween vs. String Cheese Incident but whatever. There's some great comments on ween.net in a growing thread of the same name. The ween kids are wicked smawt that's for sure and of course they share my love of ween and hatred for the cheese so what else could you ask for. There are alot of great comments but I liked this one especially: quote: To me, all bands are jambands, they all jam together, work out songs, and then produce and perform them. I'm not going to pay to watch some band jam, even if it is one of these special jambands. As for the "genre", I imagine there are a list of bands. Young bands starting out now at least have a back-up. "If we can't make it in rock and roll, we can make it in jambands". As the list doesn't seem to long, compared to the millions in other genres, they're bound to get a little exposure by declaring themselves a jamband band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaimoe Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 If the principle strength of any jamband in question lies in their jamming ability first and foremost, then I am not a jamband fan. The songs have to be good, then the jamming should follow with a natual flow. The jams need to have a point and purpose. Bands that jam for the sake of jamming suck donkey dick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phishin4groove Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 id rather see a band jam for the sake of jamming then see a top 40 bullshit band.. Bands that jam just to jam dont "suck donkey dick"...they fukin rock...it takes strong musical relationships between band memebers to pull it off..It ceratinly is not a cop out alternative to rock and roll. Blue quarter is a fine example of this...They jam basically to jam...But its intence and off the cuff...thats what makes jamband music so FUKIN AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bouche Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 The word Jam in itself tends to mean differnet things to different people. You've got guys like garaj mahal, whom when they jam, they're on the level of improv that is executed with precision. mmw can jam in a realm that doens't even sound like music. It's more of a space thing and that can be very annoying for some people (dead space?) There's the moe jams which is a more common approach. Laying down grooves and playing shit all around. Bluegrass jams, not to trivialize them, but they are basically just a bunch of common or original licks strung together. This is just off of the top of my head, and I don't even know if it's related. But Jaimoe triggered it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kung Posted February 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 TRON FUKIN BLOWS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Musicface Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 That's interesting. I've often thought about the things I admire about bands like Phish, Blues Traveler, ABB, Gov't Mule, DMB, etc. vs what I admire about bands like Rush, Yes, Pink Floyd, Peter Gabriel etc. which more-or-less span my two favorite genres of music. The latter type of bands rarely (if ever) "jam" live, although obviously they spend a lot of time experimenting to come up with their complex, layered arrangements. Once they have those in place, they're basically set, certainly for a tour if not for their entire careers. I guess it comes down to what you as an individual admire in music. For me, it's a number of different things - to simplify I'd say it's great songs, great technical ability & powerful performances - the last of which could mean Trey Anastasio pulling out some wonderful-weird-ass solo from space that will never be heard again, or David Gilmour perfectly playing the first solo from "Comfortably Numb", which was perfect the first time he played it 25 years ago and should never, EVER be played differently. For me those different sensibilities appeal to different parts of my musical brain. I remember ahess saying in a thread that he doesn't like "arranged" music, that's one perspective. A lot of people, like my wife for instance, can't stand a lot of jazz and largely improvisational music 'cus they see it as wanking - again, that's their perspective. I'd never take my wife to see The Skip or probably even Phish, but she ADORES Ani DiFranco, who does jam but does it in the context of powerful, wonderful songs. And actually, I agree largely with what Jaimoe said. I don't count any bands that I can think of amoung my faves if they don't have great songs to start with. The jams should come out of that. I'll listen to stuff that's totally made-up and off-the-cuff and perhaps be able to enjoy it in the right context, but it's not what I prefer either. Anyway, there's my two-cents. Thanks for the question kung - is this the "Lovey Dove" kung I've been hearing so much about? Peace, Mr. M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paisley Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 kind of like the difference between theatre and improv... generally I can go see an improv show (so long as the actors are talented that way) more often than I can go see the same play again and again which is better, depends who is doing either... some songs are great and worth listening to again and again, some people jam together intelligently and cohesively... some who do either aren't very good about the only band I've seen really be almost entirely jam is Battleship Ethel but even they are starting to form songs from the repeated jams... places they return to I guess the New Deal started off that way too with the same results to an outsider nero sounds like a bunch of jams whereas to someone who has seen a number of shows you know the songs, and appreciate the changes between shows really just down to apples and oranges again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooly Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 i like jambands, i like ween, i dont like sci, ween was actually one of the best shows i caught in 2003, saw tons of the same kids i saw at IT there, still giviner, and then there was the idiot tellin me i cant roll doobies with papers from france.. anyways jambands are good,, but i think they all need some sort of structure, songs, i dont know if i would pay to go see pure improv every night, unles i knew the musicians were talented enough to pull it off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 quote: Originally posted by Mr. Musicface: I guess it comes down to what you as an individual admire in music. That would be my 2cents. Music is so diverse, and takes on a different meaning/feeling to everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcO Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 let's review the formulas shall we? Good songs + no jamming = excellent. The world needs more good songs than it does guitar solos so, thank you for your contribution. No songs + good jamming = world-class free-form jazz, a rare breed. Be wary of hairy people bearing guitar pedals. Good songs + good jamming = the ideal. See: the Grateful Dead (1965 - 1995) Bad songs + good jamming = ok. Maybe the songs will improve. This will be less of a consideration if years of psychedelic "experiments" have left you unable to comprehend the concepts of form and design. See: your doctor, then go see The White Stripes. Good songs + bad jamming = A wasted opportunity for brevity and restraint. Just play your good songs and get off the stage please. Bad songs + bad jamming = the Disco Biscuits. These formulas are correct and are not to be challenged in any way. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paisley Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Tooly: i like jambands, i like ween, i dont like sciyeah, thats where I sit too rockband versus jamband? depends on which individual one is entertaining The Grateful Dead is still in the rock section at the music store Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggrtrhhrtgg Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 have to agree with Paisley here, I find that jambands are improvisational, each and everytime you here a song played, it is a variation of the original. Personally, (to each their own kung) I prefer that because I think that is more difficult than repeating the same original all the time... Also, Jambands are touring bands... I believe they deserve credit for allowing their music to become available for nothing, where as, bands not considered jambands, generally speaking are far more commercialized. Also, non-jambands do not play original setlists each and every night, which of course is far easier of a task... your knowledge of music does not need to be as vast... I have reached a point where I have little or no interest in seeing a band outside of the jamband scene because I respect the improvisational/non-commericial aspects of the scene.. and Kung, just to let you know, I sent an email to the boys in Colorado, and they told me to tell you they still LOVE YOU!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paisley Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 actually for me its more difficult to play the same thing night after night... I start going out of my skull if I have to keep playing the same thing over and over... thats what chased me out of classical music when I was young, though I love a lot of classical... wasn't enough freedom of expression in something that is only played "this way" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaimoe Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 Even experimental jazz/jam-type music by " gifted " visionaries are often tough to take: See later John Coltrane and the Free Jazz period of Ornette Coleman and Eric Dolphy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Musicface Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 Hey, I was thinking a bit more about this part of kung's statement: quote: As for the "genre", I imagine there are a list of bands. Young bands starting out now at least have a back-up. "If we can't make it in rock and roll, we can make it in jambands". As the list doesn't seem to long, compared to the millions in other genres, they're bound to get a little exposure by declaring themselves a jamband band. Interestingly, this was a source of some debate with my band (Uncle Seth) a few years ago. One member (who is no longer in the band for unrelated reasons) objected to our attempt to "align" ourselves with the Canadian jamband community because of what he saw as the associations with bands like the Dead, which he was really not into at all. And indeed, I'd agree that our band isn't "as much" of a jamband as some others because we play mostly traditional length pop-rock songs with some jammy middles and transitions, rather than playing the longer form and more explorative jams of many of our peers. But the way I always looked at it is that it doesn't hurt you to be a part of a supportive community of people who are appreciative of music and choose to make it a "serious" part of their lives. Some of them (hopefully) are going to like us, others are not, in fact some folks in the scene have actually said to myself and others "well, Uncle Seth isn't REALLY a jamband, is it?" Well, hey, in that persons definition maybe not, but I know there are folks in the scene that do enjoy what we do and appreciate us as part of that scene, so that's cool. And this stuff isn't exclusive - our band also has ties in what I guess you'd think of as the "folk" scene in Toronto. Our friends in the Erin Smith Band are another example of this - we're as likely run into Erin playing acoustic folk with her buds with the Ladybird Sideshow as we are at the next Come Together fest. As we know, a lot of folks in the jam scene also have strong ties to the jazz & bluegrass communities as well. So I don't think it's a matter of "not making it in rock and roll", it's a matter of finding your audience where ever they are. And hey, if a band sucks they suck, no discriminating member of any scene is gonna continue to see them - unless they win a Grammy or a Juno! - M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamilton Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 Originally posted by number 2: I find that jambands are improvisational, each and everytime you here a song played, it is a variation of the original. Personally, (to each their own kung) I prefer that because I think that is more difficult than repeating the same original all the time... Also, Jambands are touring bands... I believe they deserve credit for allowing their music to become available for nothing, where as, bands not considered jambands, generally speaking are far more commercialized. Also, non-jambands do not play original setlists each and every night, which of course is far easier of a task... your knowledge of music does not need to be as vast... But just because something is "more difficult" doesn't mean that it's necessarily better. I mean, Neil Young plays a lot of one-note guitar solos, which aren't necessarily very difficult per se, but I'd rather hear that than the complexity of Steve Howe (with all due respect to Mr. Musicface). Sticking with the Neil Young theme, I'd also rather hear a simple two chord acoustic piece than a fugue (or whatever it is) like "Guyute". You may prefer differently than I do, but the quality of the product and the level of difficulty required to create the product are two different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esau Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 I'm not goin say anything more then this. I like the music as much as every other style music I enjoy. I think the 'scene' ruins alot of it. Note:By 'scene' I mean people(not all but a large amount) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kung Posted February 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 What's this about the boys in Colorado now? You've got my interest piqued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siloet Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 Whatevers Clever... I love rock and roll... put another dime in the jukebox baby... I love rock and roll... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggrtrhhrtgg Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 Well, Kung, all of this SCI bashing, I just thought I would pass along a message telling you that eventhough you forsake a band that is all about the love.. well Billy wrote, maybe we will dedicate a song in honour of our wayward friend Kung? perhaps, that will end this senseless bashing of our music.... and, I will have to send an email to the Biscos as well I see!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggrtrhhrtgg Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 Also, I think music is for the individual ear, mind and soul... we all have our individual preferences, and they are all unique. I don't have alot of interest in bands outside of the jamband scene, I used to, but I have found a musical genre and community that I love, and there is enough music within that large community to keep me busy for eternity!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esau Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 quote:Originally posted by number 2: eventhough you forsake a band that is all about the love.. I thought SCI was all about chemicals and annoying girls who need 10 feet around them to dance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaimoe Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Esau: quote:Originally posted by number 2: eventhough you forsake a band that is all about the love.. I thought SCI was all about chemicals and annoying girls who need 10 feet around them to dance. Is that the SCI crowd, or Uncle Seth's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kung Posted February 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 Is this one of your vision quest imaginary emails or the real thing? I mean are you always having 'chats' with Abe Nershi in your head. If it is I real I really want to see that email if you'll send it to me as a private message- I'm touched. I have no doubt they're all about the love so were the folks at Jonestown up until they drank the koolaid. I think this remark best captures some of my feelings on the topic, just came off the top of my head (I will say that's the one good thing about spending this much time farting around on message boards is it's greatly improved my comedic timing and has almost eliminated the gulf between my brain, fingers and sometimes colon): quote: My love of Ween and hatred (there is not a strong enough a word) of the Cheese exist in a sun and moon type relationship. Except both the sun and moon are pretty to look at and the Cheese should die a miserable death or at least be forced to suffer some horrible waking nightmare hounded by the voodoo zombies of the bluegrass forefathers whose graves they shit on daily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggrtrhhrtgg Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 not my experiences with SCI... and if we are going to bash SCI for chemical use, then I guess we should also include Phish, Grateful Dead, etc... I have never had a problem with space at a show... I mean I have heard some sci horror stories on this site, but does that mean that every show is apparently like that?? and how does that associate with the band?? I don't recall seeing any of the guys handing out goodies in the parking lots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.