purple foot Posted June 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 by higher do you mean lower? less of that age group voted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esau Posted June 9, 2004 Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 yep,hence "sad thing is" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaggyBalls Posted June 9, 2004 Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 well my alliances go green. they're a party that believes community and realism ought to be important. however, in my riding a green vote is a waste. and although i dont' want a conservative in power i think they'd do a better job than the fu**in liberals. Sorry huxxy but they can't spend money very well and since i pay taxes i tihnk that's very important. NDP has the best shot at gaining ground this election. canadians want change and i can't believe nobody thought of using the bank of canada to borrow money from before layton. nobody's said 'let's make these big buildings more efficient so we won't have to spend as much money on hydro and drain the grid and waste electricity' before. and if you watch the televised debates the NDP candidates are always smarter, more educated, and far more polite than the libs or the PCs. it's the smartest choice if you ask me even though a vote against the conservatives should be a vote for the liberals i'm not the most imformed man alive but i know what's important. forward thinking, realistic economics, and demeanor that's befitting to a person that is to represent his/her riding and homeland. as a canadian i pride myself on being a good person and i dont' want to be represented by some loudmouth that can't wait his/her turn to speak on national television. thanks. vote how you want. i'm going[color:"orange"] orange . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stapes Posted June 9, 2004 Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamilton Posted June 9, 2004 Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 Another good reason not to vote for the Conservatives is that fact that the incoming prime minister will be responsible for two appointments to the Supreme Court - a move which could alter the decisions of the next 20 years or so. Harper has already stated that he would appoint judges who would bow to the wishes of Parliament... which isn't a very good thing. I think that the Supreme Court has, in many instances, been the reason that we live in the (relatively) socially-liberal nation that we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondtube Posted June 9, 2004 Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 I'm gonna vote NDP b/c in Hamilton, voting NDP can make a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hux Posted June 9, 2004 Report Share Posted June 9, 2004 ....voting NDP in some tight Hamilton ridings could certainly make a BIG difference....it could elect Stephen Harper as Prime Minister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paisley Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 television-wise I think Layton is pulling off the best campaign, lots of out amongst the people answering their questions and concerns... there's something kind of desperate about Martin, which I think is mainly that he's not good at t.v. I don't even see the Conservatives on the tube (well I see it, roll my eyes, think of Republican Canada and get back to thinking of anything that isn't so ridiculous or disturbing) though I've been a Liberal all my life I'm starting to sway to NDP... one day I hope it'll be worth casting a ballot (in Ontario, B.C. is getting close) for the Green party Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onthejourney Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 Well i will be voting GREEN!!! first off to say. Second, I find it really sad that in this "democracy" we do not have proportional representation and this therefore causes people to vote for the lesser of two evils. It truly upsets me that this is going on. I don't want the Liberals in or the conservatives for that matter. But don't you think that you should vote for what you really want!? Not voting for what you really want is selling yourself short. If they don't get in (which they won't this time around; to be realistic) then at least you are voicing yourself. Over the past years, the Green party has gained quite a considerable amount of votes, especially in BC. In fact, I firmly believe that we will get at least 3 seats from the Green Party in BC, into senate this time around. And to have at least those 3 voices to be heard, representing alot of people's concerns for the future, is something huge. It would be so amazing if more people between the ages of 18-28 actually voted and cared about their future in this country (and their children's). We are not the largest demographic but that does not mean that we don't have a say and that if we actually got off our asses and did something it would make a difference!! So, I am not good at articulating myself this evening, so it seems. But I am sure you get the point. Kudos and cheers to everyone that is standing up for what they believe in (voting green, ndp, or whatever) instead of succumbing to the pressure of voting for one of two evils. And for those of you who have not taken the time to look at the platform of the Green party, I suggest that you do, as I know many people have been misinformed regarding them. And please, if you do, spend the time to read the majority of the platform (which could take an hour or so). It is worth it to make an informed choice, which ever that choice may be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hux Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 Democracy is a form of human organization, and is therefore in itself the lesser of an evil (what are the other options, anarchy, tyranny, ??) and our system, while flawed, is still better than 95% of what is out there. Like it or not, it is reality, and therefore how you vote in this reality WILL effect the outcome of the election. ie. you can ignore the strategic implications of your vote, but ours isn't a system of proportional representation (which is by no means a perfect system either, there are many negatives - check it out) and therefore voting for who "you really want!?" could result in a party attaining power, who in the end, forms a government with the polar opposite views of the party you voted for. The best recent example is Ralph Nader in the 2000 U.S. election, if he hadn't run - Al Gore would be in the White House today, meanwhile, every single person who voted for Nader would list Gore as their second choice, but look at the results of their votes for Nader..... I have nothing against the Green Party or the NDP, but depending on your riding, if you can step back and take a look at the bigger picture, using your vote strategically, will in the end, be a better use of your vote for electing a government that is closer to your personal politics, and in my view, the best way to maximize the power of your individual vote. Stephen Harper announced today he would remove Canada from the Kyoto Protocol, look at the implications for future generations of that, should the Conservatives form a government, as opposed to the Green Party getting 6% instead of 5%, in the end will that extra vote or percentage point, help the environment more, than the Conservatives who (seriously) prefer a 50-100 year plan to deal with the environment?? Vote! but consider all the implications! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamilton Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 Over the past years, the Green party has gained quite a considerable amount of votes, especially in BC. In fact, I firmly believe that we will get at least 3 seats from the Green Party in BC, into senate this time around. Getting voted into the Senate, regardless of your political affiliation, would be quite an accomplishment indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booche Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 "Getting voted into the Senate, regardless of your political affiliation, would be quite an accomplishment indeed!" Exactly. Check out the Wookies in Episode II, IV example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guigsy Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 so, i really dont know shit. but, if im reading correctly, what im seeing is this: a vote for green is basically a wasted vote, because they simply dont have the strength to make an impact, regardless. but, if you feel green, rather than "wasting" that vote, you should consider voting strategically, meaning, NDP or Liberal. if one has the notion that the NDP does have a chance to sneak in under the tag and steal this one in the bottom of the 9th, then by all means give them your vote. however, if one has the smallest doubt that the NDP has the strength, and feels this may just be a 2 horse race, one should give his/her vote to the Liberals, just to keep the conservatives out. unless you want the conservatives in, in which case you just might be cast off the board. am i understanding this correctly? then what happens when the greeners get nothin' and simply dont get heard? will they not then lack the necessary means to spread their message and gain the funding to keep that message spreading? i really dont know. i've never been a politics kinda guy, but im finding im getting more interested, and i'd like to be able to make an informed choice this time around. i was part of that large young-adult category that chose not to vote last time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onthejourney Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 Senate, House of Commons..whatever..you know what i meant and what i was trying to get across. Like I said, I am not good at articulating myself. You guys can be so damn nit-picky sometimes. I heard that about the Conservatives yesterday, that they want to back out of Kyoto which is terrible indeed! I most certainly don't want them in power either. But I still think it is terrible that that then makes people vote liberal. It just makes me sad and upset that things are this way and that many folks are so jaded that they just don't vote at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c-towns Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 Just how exactly does anyone know how close this election already is? Who's in charge of handing out this information, could it be some sort of Liberal looking to secure more "strategic" votes??? Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondtube Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 so i either vote for one party that wants to get in bed with bushie and his missles, or vote for a party who believes the keyoto agreement is outdated, and the funds should be put elsewhere?i LOVE how layton hasn't regressed to the point of knocking another party's policies for the whole commercial. he always managed to try and get his message across...personally, if the torries win by one percent, and the NDP gained two percent, two percent that the Fiberals COULD have gained, i'm not going to feel at all bad. No way in hell am i playing Survivor with our Voting Process. It sounds like people have watched TOO much reality tv lately. Voting out another party due to stratagies, rather than voting who you want to win....Canadian Politics at its WORST.on a side note, i met Christopherson yesterday, and thanked him for joining the NDP's.Him joinging NDP shows a SERIOUS politician isn't so quick to dismiss the NDP. In five years from now, we'll be back to a three party system, and hopefully the liberals and conservatives can stop this stupid strategic voting garbage, and people would STOP saying, "well, i WOULD vote NDP, but what good does that do!"If you dont start voting NDP, especially when YOU REALLY WANT TO, NDP will never have a chance. Dont be stupid. Vote for who you WANT to be in party. This isn't a Fox Reality TV show!Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondtube Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 this morning, from two different sources, one played the fib's ahead by two percent, another put them ahead by one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c-towns Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 see what im sayin man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamilton Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 Yeah, but these polls are always accurate to x percentage points, y times out of z (generally 4 times out of 5, or some simialt ratio). They're not 100% accurate, which is why you can have different results from different polls, but they *do* generally reflect people's opinions.The real x factor is that number of people who are undecided, or who might switch their vote later on, because these polls usually reflect only decided voters' preferences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c-towns Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 Who does and where do these polls take place, I'm still not buying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamilton Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 Generally speaking, when you hear reports in the media concerning these polls, they're the results of polls conducted by reputable independent firms, like EKOS or Ipsos-Reid. The parties, of course, have their own polls, but the media doesn't report them - because they're not reliable. Generally, they're done on the phone - I took part in one the other day, actually... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairySari Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 I don't think the polls are too accurate, but they give a vague sense of what the outcome will be, ie the majority of seats will be split between conservatives and liberals, ndp and the bloc will get most of the rest, and maybe one or two will go to other parties. Here's a poll by Ipsos-Reid. The projected seat breakdown: Liberals: 115 to 119 seats Conservatives: 110 to 114 seats NDP: 17 to 21 seats Bloc: 56 to 60 seats Green Party: two seats And the fine print: This telephone survey was conducted between June 1st and 3rd. A representative randomly selected sample of 1,000 adult Canadians was interviewed. With a sample of this size, the results are considered accurate to plus or minus 3.1 percentage points, 19 times out of 20. The margin of error will be larger within regions and for other sub-groupings of the survey population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondtube Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 why would the bloc get so many more seats than NDP? in both polls i saw this morning, the NDP were at least eight or so percent higher than Bloq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamilton Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 Because a majority of people in Quebec, the second-most populous province, will vote for the Bloc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairySari Posted June 10, 2004 Report Share Posted June 10, 2004 Not sure exactly why Bloc would get more seats, but I suspect it's because, while they have less of the popular vote than the ndp (something like 11% for bloc, %17 for ndp) their support is more concentrated in particular ridings. So 17 percent of the population could vote ndp in each riding, and the ndp wouldnt get a single seat. But if that eleven percent for the bloc translates to over 50% in most ridings in quebec, but 0% elsewhere, the bloc is going to get a lot more seats.Just another reason why those percentage polls are pretty close to meaningless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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