Miss Universe is a Jackass I guess

[Sunshine]

I wish Marco was the "Sunshine Boy".....

or even better...Marco and Booche together as Team Sunshine....

hehehee..what would the caption be?

[Booche]

hehehee..what would the caption be?

Either this,

"Dear diary: Jackpot."

or this,

"Butter's in the fridge!"

or possibly,

"Here's to Pepper Jack's, where they don't ask for proof of ID and neither do we."

or,

"You must be a parking ticket, cuz you got fine written all over you."

but perhaps this will do,

"So, you ladies ever been penetrated?"

[Deeps]

I think I addressed this above, but no it doesn't mean that she's a jack ass...I was just trying to get the people of this board to pay the post some mind...I was bored.

I would say she is questionably intelligent if she particpates in the auction....I mean pagent.

Deep

This says more about your own narrowed views of who frequents jambands.ca than anything.

I don't think women need SNAGs (Sensitive New-Age Guys) to speak on their behalf since they've secretly been running our world for quite some time now.

Not undermining your obvious care and concern but I think it's pretty righteous of you to say "Look, I love women and so do my metrosexual friends" when in fact they probably don't need what you're offering.

As for beauty contests, men will always love tits and ass almost as much as (some) women love to show them off...for themselves. Now if I were to comment any further I'd be one more incessantly jabbering shlong on this thread!

I think you misunderstand my subject title...I wasn't saying that people in this board need to smarten up or anything of that nature and as a matter of fact I know full fucking well that the majority of people around here no better than to act like idiots.

I was trying to turn a head or 2 with a headline so that we could all engage in a lively discussion and the head turning ensued didn't it?

SNAG....where do you get this shit?

I don't think I said I was speaking for everyone...you said that...and then you proceeded to speak for all the females of the world by saying they didn't need another SNAG (ugh) speaking for them. Backward.

I speak for me and the general weirdness that seems to be pervading mass media around women. Weirdness I thought was dying...it turned out I just didn't have cable and it's flourishing and nourishing our daughters and their friends.

Sorry I gave a shit about an issue that is important and does require open debate...maybe we should all go back to talking ambiguously about some topic a little less pertinent in every day life.

As for my Metro-sexual friends and our POVs.

I see some backward ass shit pervading our media and the young women that consume it I get a little fired up about it and make a point of trying to make it better. Sorry for trying to change things.

[color:purple]Thanks for the name calling session.

Deeps

Edited July 19, 2005 by Guest

[AD]

Deeps.... Chill.... A dissenting opinion is OK around here...

AD

[Deeps]

Deeps.... Chill.... A dissenting opinion is OK around here...

AD

The man refers to the people particpipating in the discussion as jabbering schlongs.....hmmm constructive dissent is a litle more warmly accepted.

It seemed to me there was a little distain headed in my direction what with me being a SNAG and I defended myself.

Sorry if it was misplaced, but I found Polkaroo's comments a little heavy handed and rather than edit myself I reacted as I would in a discussion.

Deeps

[Deeps]

Sorry I gave a shit about an issue that is important and does require open debate...maybe we should all go back to talking ambiguously about some topic a little less pertinent in every day life.

The above is dumb...sorry for that one.

Understood AD.

Deeps

Edited July 19, 2005 by Guest

[AdamH]

Well as one SNAG to another I'll say this much: You put thought into what you're writing. You're already miles ahead of many people.

I guess what I can't wrap my head around is not why men are discussing this issue, but why we think we have some answers to it. I don't think women are incapable of standing in their place, nor do I think children and other impressionables are likely to lay down and scream "no mas" when they see Miss Universe trying to speak Thai and open a food festival. If anything it's awfully strange to get a model to open a food festival so I'll give you that point about the City probably saying to themselves "What does (a) have to do with (b)". What I won't concede on is the city then saying "Since I don't understand (a) and ( together, I'll just deny the option". After all, in the name of multiculturalism the city has for years granted permits to the fucking CHIN picnic that features a bikini contest. Oh yeah, since there's always the token black contestant I guess it's a multicultural event. Johnny Lombardi you stallion!

My calling you a metrosexual might seem like an insult if I didn't see myself in the same group. I guess what I'm thinking is that we as men should take care of being good men and not be obligated to mainstream the gender debate, or act as some sort of voice for the fairer sex. I just see that as off-putting since we've basically had the prevailing voice for all of eternity

Of course you're welcome to buy a "What would Steinem do?" bracelet from me for 5 bucks and a pamela anderson cardboard cutout.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

I do see some problem - and I don't think gender is really a factor here in seeing it - with the "post-feminist" viewpoint that gets trotted out by all manner of twentysomethings in the media that these contests are all about women's empowerment, that all the major battles have been won and girls can now cash in their chips. I think I can say that, and also maintain that New Age is bogus tripe.

SNAG - I'll have to remember that one!

Do these contests really do anything more than drive more wedges between women, and ratchet up insatiable cravings among men, and set the tone for the next generation? Spreading good or positive messages around the world? Do we really need T and A to carry that off? I hope we're not as lost as all that, and that we can look at strangers and not see them as things. There's something pernicious about the kind of "empowerment" going on here. Power uses us, not the other way around. There should be a different word for that sort of power.

[Jaimoe]

Last year's Miss Universe pageant had a Miss Afghanistan. It may not be cool with many people in many countries around the world, but I loved it for many reasons.

[Deeps]

Of course you're welcome to buy a "What would Steinem do?" bracelet from me for 5 bucks and a pamela anderson cardboard cutout.

HAHAH hee he he ha.

That's awesome.

It's a fine line b/n preachy and good exempliary and I am not afraid to tend toward preachy here and there as I find it sometimes is the only way to raise any concern amongst those who could be swayed one way or the other.

Trying to change the world one ass grabber at a time I guess.

Deeps

Edited July 19, 2005 by Guest

[Deeps]

I do see some problem - and I don't think gender is really a factor here in seeing it - with the "post-feminist" viewpoint that gets trotted out by all manner of twentysomethings in the media that these contests are all about women's empowerment, that all the major battles have been won and girls can now cash in their chips. I think I can say that, and also maintain that New Age is bogus tripe.

SNAG - I'll have to remember that one!

Do these contests really do anything more than drive more wedges between women, and ratchet up insatiable cravings among men, and set the tone for the next generation? Spreading good or positive messages around the world? Do we really need T and A to carry that off? I hope we're not as lost as all that, and that we can look at strangers and not see them as things. There's something pernicious about the kind of "empowerment" going on here. Power uses us, not the other way around. There should be a different word for that sort of power.

well put....totally agree that these are real important questions and to me easily answered.

A lot of the stuff (T and A) stuff we`ve come to know needs to be shut down in the name of progress.

Seems that we`re de-evolving these days with regard to the headway made in the 60s and 70s.

God bless Paris Hilton....yikes....dumbassity is winning right now.

Deeps

[Calamity Jane]

WOW Deeps--where to start? You've impressed me before with some of your posts and you've done it again.

I know you didn't just want to spark a lively debate, but it's clear these things DO disturb you and you need to speak out on them. KUDOS!!!

I don't feel 'disempowered' in any way that a MAN is speaking out on these issues. In fact, it gives me hope...It's called recognizing one's own PRIVLEDGE and becoming an ALLY (how's that for PC language?)

I don't feel like explaining it to those who don't 'get it', 'cause those who don't get it probably don't care!

I've had enough men carry on conversations with my breasts instead of my face to know that poeple who go to see Miss Universe cut a ribbon (or speak about "I want to work for world peace..." or more topically, "the benefits of Thai massge and chicken curry") are NOT there for insight!

And lets not lose sight of the actual legislation, with which I totally agree:

According to a city bylaw, "activities which degrade men or women through sexual stereotyping, or exploit the bodies of men, women, boys or girls solely for the purpose of attracting attention, are not permitted on Nathan Phillips Square."

This is moving in the right direction, BUT until the general populace comes to agree and not write this off as frivolous, we still have a long way to go.

btw, so glad to know there are/will be other awesome dads in the world like Dave-who's-notreally-so-evil-mouse.

[hamilton]

According to a city bylaw, "activities which degrade men or women through sexual stereotyping, or exploit the bodies of men, women, boys or girls solely for the purpose of attracting attention, are not permitted on Nathan Phillips Square."

But as long as Miss Universe isn't wearing a bikini or some other unnecessarily revealing clothing to the food pageant, then she's just a celebrity, right? A minor celebrity, but a celebrity nonetheless. They aren't holding the pageant there - if they were, then I could understand why people might want to use this law to stop the pageant.

Would the same law have been used if she had been an attractive movie star? What if she had been an attractive movie star who had had a nude scene in a movie? What if she were an unattractive movie star who had been in a nude scene? Even better, what if she had been a hunky male movie star who had had a nude scene in a movie?

Using this by-law to prevent activities which are actually degrading to people from taking place in the Square is one thing; using it to prevent people who have at some point in their lives taken part in an activity which is considered by some to be degrading from appearing at a cultural event is another altogether. She's not a stripper - I highly doubt she was going to show up in a G-string and pasties.

[Calamity Jane]

Hamilton, follow the link and read the article. She was invited to show up and participate as the 'celebrtiy' she is, just not to wear her sash and crown, which pasties & G-string be they not, they still widely and clearly proclaim her as a SEXUAL object whose claim to fame is her BODY only, period.

I always thought of those sashes as the ribbons they put on prize cows and pigs at country fairs.

"Look, son, you wanna git yerself a good breeder, like this 'un here...."

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

I always thought of those sashes as the ribbons they put on prize cows and pigs at country fairs.

Damn! I'm going to be smiling over that one for days!

[hamilton]

I did read the article. I just didn't choose the best words for my response, I guess.

Even without the sash and crown, people will know who she is, so what is the point in preventing her from wearing them?

This kind of bureaucratic nonsense is such a waste of government effort - effort which could really be re-directed to much more pressing issues. But instead, someone has to go out of their way to ensure that you can't discuss or acknowledge what everyone already knows about anyway. And how does that work for the 10% of the crowd who have no idea who she is?

I can see it now:

MC: And now, I'd like to introduce Natalie Glebova, an individual of note contributing to our community.

Dude: Why is she noteworthy?

MC: We can't tell you.

I mean, it's not like she's in the CIA or anything.

I'm sure the city's politicians could have put their time to better use than to specifically prevent someone from wearing a piece of silk and a pile of cubic zirconia to a food festival.

As for the negative stereotype issue, there are WAY bigger fish to fry - like the advertising, fashion and entertainment industries. Beauty pageants may be out of step with the times, but they are more quaint than offensive.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

Re. the last point - I think what we do have here to work with is a private/public issue. Ain't nobody gonna mess with the former, as long as it's going to turn a buck. The latter is a different matter.

[hamilton]

From 640 Toronto :

Toronto's Mayor Apologizes To Miss Universe

Jul, 19 2005 - 5:00 PM

TORONTO/640TORONTO - Toronto's mayor is telling Miss Universe that he's sorry.

Due to an archaic by-law, Toronto's Natalie Glebova had been deemed too tasteless to open this weekend's Thai Festival at Nathan Philips Square.

The by-law bars any activities deemed degrading to women through sexual stereotyping from taking place in the square.

But David Miller says that shouldn't have applied to Glebova who he calls a "successful young woman, way beyond beauty contests."

Miller has called Glebova to offer an apology on behalf of her hometown.

There's no word whether she will host the event, as originally planned.

[Deeps]

Due to an archaic by-law.

The by-law bars any activities deemed degrading to women through sexual stereotyping from taking place in the square.

[color:purple]

Sounds pretty archaic to me!

I wonder what paper this could have came from.

My guess is that there will be some people in the govt pissed with David Miller over this one.

Deeps

[bradm]

Are activities that are degrading to men through sexual stereotyping allowed to take place in the square?

Aloha,

Brad

[Deeps]

Are activities that are degrading to men through sexual stereotyping allowed to take place in the square?

Aloha,

Brad

No! This amazing news source.....I'd be damn surprised if it weren't the sun....misquoted the by-law.

See previous posts by the more diligent people of the board for the full and correct by-law.

Deeps

[Calamity Jane]

Beauty pageants may be out of step with the times, but they are more quaint than offensive.

*sigh*

to YOU, buddy, maybe to YOU!

Sorry, Hamilton, you probably think of yourself as a "nice guy", but you know what, you don't 'get it.' And sadly, people like you can really get me down and take the wind out of my sails. Sometimes it's just WAY too much effort to try to get people like you to see their own privledge and/or to see how others (without your privledge) experienne the world on a daily basis.

[Deeps]

"I definitely don't think that the Miss Universe title is any kind of stereotype or sexual stereotype."

Just grabbed this quote from a CBC article.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/07/20/glebova050720.html

[color:purple]Sounds like our beauty queen is a real brain.

Deeps

Edited July 20, 2005 by Guest

[AD]

I think this thread has gotten waay too rightious. She's a beautiful, smart girl who won an international contest, partly based on looks. (For the record, I don't think there's anything sexual about it. Sexy and sexual are different ideas all together in my book). Now you're getting all upset because you think she shouldn't be able to cut a ribbon at a Thai festival?

AD

[Calamity Jane]

AD,

"sexy" and "sexual" are the EXACT same thing. It's "sexist" and "sexual" that are different, [color:purple]though you may have to look sexist up in a dictionary, 'cause I think it's a new idea for ya!