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MK

By MK
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Booche Newbie

Booche

Posted
Posted

MK, this could be easily moderated..............

Lets change that post up a little, shall we?

I hate the fact that some people need to compare and compete. The whole idea of all of this is to help the bands. Get the people out. Maybe it isnt being done in the way some people want it to be done, but at least there are two sites with people working their asses off (on their fucking free time). There is over a 1000 people on that site, and their message board moves as well.

I posted there 15 minutes ago.

It just bothers me how some people want to segregate rather than congregate. Touchy fucking subject in my world.

I love the Hub as well.

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kung Newbie

kung

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Touchy indeed, come on braaaah it's my moment in the sun. I don't know how to break it to you but politics is innate in this and every scene. I still take slack over some misperception about Burt Neilson, or just this evening took some shit in absentia about something I wrote about Evolve over a year ago. Old grudges die hard. People are trying to make livelihoods or partial ones and self preservation and ass covering is instinctive. Which is to say that everyone's trying to cover their own turf and growl at mongrel dogs.

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Esau Newbie

Esau

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quote:
Originally posted by kung:

People are trying to make livelihoods or partial ones and self preservation and ass covering is instinctive. Which is to say that everyone's trying to cover their own turf and growl at mongrel dogs.

This is one reason I am not involved with promotion and no longer an admin,tired of trying to explain that I have a day job and dont make dollar one from anything but my day job.

All behind me now.

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hamilton Newbie

hamilton

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Posted

quote:
Originally posted by MK:

Since those member ratings have been abolished opinion has been widespread on this board...

What do the ratings *really* have to do with it?

I mean, I don't think that Kung is the sort of person to *not* post his opinion because he's afraid that someone will give him a one-star rating... and frankly, I don't think that anyone *should* be afraid.

However, I do agree that in the last week or so, there has been a lot of opinion giving; I think, however, that this is the result of some good threads, rather than the discontinuation of the ratings system.

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kung Newbie

kung

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I comletely agree with Hamilton. I even agree with Esau. My point is not all that subtle- it's the idea that there is no such thing as a selfless act. Your sister needs you to loan her some money and you want to help but part of you likes the fact that your sister neeeeeds the money. It's to say that even when we do this for no gain whatsover, risking money, time etc. there is some even invisible advantage to be gained whether that's clout, esteem, respect of artists, stroking of your own ego etc. I'm putting myself in that boat. I also love how everyone stresses how much time and effort and unpaid blah blah blah. Why do you think I don't do NorthernHeads anymore? Even though none of you pussies could admit that you LOVED all of that muckracking and trashy shit. All I took was endless grief and rarely if ever did anyone give me any credit.

Whether people actually make money or not is besides the point- many do in fact make money by the way. Evolve took in mucho dinero at the gate last year and didn't even provide a day of artists they had promised to all Canadians. I'm sure CTMF did or has done alright. Do you think BB doesn't want to make a little coin in Ottawa? Or Show Whore? There's nothing wrong with that mind you- it's when you dress it up as mansy pansy good samaritanism that I take offense.

MK got so pussed out by this thread that he even edited his own post and took out a passing dig about 'when's the last time anyone checked out jamhug' as if to say I hardly read Vanity Fair anymore I've been really digging the letters to the editor in Esquire. Generally any publication the letters are one of the best parts and I read Now and Exclaim! religiously for that reason. You see all this cast of characters in the community stand up and clear their throat and say 'that piece you wrote was trite bullshit'. The board's been great lately because a diverse group of highly intelligent people have been being honest with themselves and others. There was no need for censorship or self-censorship until he of Big Cock decided to whip out his moderator schlong.

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kung Newbie

kung

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I'm happy to let this die as well. I don't really feel alot of incentive to contribute to this forum as a result of this minor debacle. It's because it touches on some very touchy issues for me as well. Once you've had a perfectly good piece pulled from a website like Jambase because it was %97 positive and still have to take slack over it years later you become a bit jaded. It exposes the fact that jam journalism is really meant to be an advertorial for festivals or bands- what I affectionately call editorial handjobs. So censorship on any level really raises my ire- just ask the jamhuggers about that score. I don't think MK meant anything by his passing remark other than stating the obvious, that things have been so hopping on this board lately that there hasn't been any need to go elsewhere for info or thought provoking. For whatever reason the jamhub board is kind of stale and doesn't stimulate alot of thought. Without being too bragadoccio I think alot of people realize that this board can be exactly the same way particularly when I don't act as a protagonist. I just thought as a parting shot I'd let you play fly on the wall in my house as we went to bed last night. My girlfriend remarked:

quote:

'These people are daft. I don't know why you bother alot of the time.'

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Mr. Musicface Newbie

Mr. Musicface

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quote:
Originally posted by MK:

the old chicken or the egg debate I guess...wondering what the point of this all is truly though...helping the bands apparently - though the other 997 members are likely in it for themselves

Hey MK - good post! Personally, I've always appreciated Kung candor, but I know in the past some have taken offense. Kung, I actually loved the part in one thread where you posted "sugar with medicine, sugar with medicine..." I just about feel off my chair laughing at that! [big Grin]

Personally, I think everybody's in it for themselves to some extent, even if it's just promoting the things they like. Although I agree with some of the things that Kung said in his last post, I think this is just a place for the natural social activity of "sharing", which hard commerce is just an extension of. You recommend a CD to somebody, you hook them up with some ripping software or a ride to a show, maybe they (or just as likely, somebody else) gives you a copy of a cool show they think you'd like, or recommends a band from their town who are coming to your town.

It's called a community, and personally being a part of it has made me "richer", not primarily in the monetary sense (although personally my band has definitely sold a few more tickets and CDs as a result of my hook-ups here) but in the sense of having met some great people who I can now call good friends, and in being hooked up with some great music, some of which I now count among my favorites. THAT'S the point for most people here, at least that's been my observation.

Peace,

Mr. M.

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bradm Newbie

bradm

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Posted

quote:
Originally posted by kung:
My point is not all that subtle- it's the idea that there is no such thing as a selfless act. Your sister needs you to loan her some money and you want to help but part of you likes the fact that your sister neeeeeds the money. It's to say that even when we do this for no gain whatsover, risking money, time etc. there is some even invisible advantage to be gained whether that's clout, esteem, respect of artists, stroking of your own ego etc.

I agree, but with a minor clarification.

My justification for helping people (friends, bands, etc.) is enlightened self-interest: I help out my friends because I have a limited supply of them, and by helping them, it makes it possible for them to be there (and healthy and happy) in the future for me to enjoy (and yes, possibly help me if/when I need it). It's the same with bands: I do things like roll calls, dragging friends out, etc., because I want the bands I like to survive so they'll be there in the future for me to listen to.

Aloha,

Brad

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AdamH Newbie

AdamH

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MarcO, thanks for the New wallpaper. That's a keeper.

I'm on this board with increasing frequency for the following reasons:

1. Work is slow in the afternoons

2. I'm interested in stuff, and like talking to other people who like stuff.

3. I like to do with the written word what I can't always do with the spoken word.

Honestly Booche, I'm not here to blindly support the bands. I'll post good reviews of shows I've attended (Cuff the M-Fn Duke for instance) and I'll slag the bands I'm not so interested in anymore (Orange Shag Carpet?). I'm against the whole "advertorial" concept Kung mentioned.

And Kung, If I may refer back to the illustrious Eddie Murphy "The Royal Penis is washed, your highness"

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kung Newbie

kung

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It seems the thread that spun out of control has landed on Jamhug. Some random dude has decided to reduce everything I do to the fact that I'm a cokehead and hence I guess useless. Anyways here's the thread and my response. Don't get me wrong I find this shit embarassing but once you get passed that it just shows you how absolutely incestuous and fucked up this scene really is:

quote:
I would be very cautious about what you're throwing around. You've managed to work in specific mention of drugs a number of times as if that will scare me. I don't know if it's because I keep a high profile, am outspoken, polarize people instantly into camps of those who like and dislike me- whatever it is people feel they can comment on my personal drug use. For whatever reason I am honest with people I don't know and forthright about trying to address issues with regard to addiction and mental health. That's about all the dirt you're going to dig up on me. On the other hand there's the whole GLASS HOUSES, STONES ETC. I find it laughable that this is the kind of shit that happens to any whistleblower or person who speaks up or against the tide of public opinion. The typical response is expose the source, call him a homo, druggy, sex freak, drunk but do what it takes to invalidate anything that person has to say. In my experience junkies and drunks like to keep at least one person around that is supposedly beneath them to comfort themself about their own uses and abuses. If I'm the scapegoat that allows other people to feel comfortable about horning shit up their own noses or through their own hookahs then so be it.
Drugs are very prevalent at festivals such as Evolve, Come Together, The Shaker etc. They are sewn into the fabric of our scene(s). I cannot think of a single fan or band that is impervious to the seductive sway of one drug or another. Every drug under the sun is available at these festivals and the proceeds from these drugs may in fact make the festivals themselves possible. Or the festivals are initially financed with drug money and then go 'legit' by turning over a profit- this is also known as money laundering. It happens that I know a great deal about how all of these cabals, otherwise known as syndicates, operate and I think this makes people edgy sometime. As if someday the dam will just burst and I'll start naming names and causing a big stink. That seems to me a very untactful and harmful thing to do and I would think it a bad idea. Your hypocrisy is inspiring me to all new heights though.
I question whether you understand the nature of any tension that there maybe between me and the Evolve promoters. Basically it's a simple thing and doesn't require alot of loopy logic, also known as 'penetrating insight', to appreciate. I was involved in trying to get various things off the ground with Jay Cleary for a period while we both lived in Halifax. This period overlapped with a very sad period for me where I encountered some serious mental problems. I wrote a preview of Evolve 2 (
) and a poetic review of the same (
). Some people consider that attempt at a review really lame but I would argue it is no better or worse then any badly conceived piss in your ears hippy noodle jamfest. I also wrote a preview of Evolve 3 (
http://www.jambase.com/headsup.asp?storyID=2813' rel="external nofollow">
) which is where the tension likely arose. I think they or rather likely just Joe took offense with this passage:
Evolve 3 is billed as a “celebration of life & music under the sun and stars of Canada’s ocean playground.” This festival takes the same tripartite approach as the two previous festivals: Jambands, Electronic Music, and Awareness. It’s safe to say that while all three elements have been present in the past they have never entirely synchronized. The festival which attracts heads from Central and Eastern Canada, as well as local ravers, can tend to feel like two tribes gathering albeit gregariously. These two trains running tend to pass each other on the path between the campground and main stage. Adding to this frustration is the totally arbitrary decision to knock the bands off the stage by at best 1:00 to make way for the barrage of DJ’s. While Halifax is known for it’s prolific DJ and rave culture, this particular scene saw many of it’s finer moments years ago. The decision to book Bullfrog featuring Kid Koala as one of the festivals headliners may reflect an effort to unite the two camps. If anyone can get the heads teaching ravers about better drugs and the ravers teaching heads about better dancing it’s Bullfrog.
That's what could be what's called a tongue in cheek or tactful way of describing the situation. Most of the local raver types stay in the campground and rest up for their big Ketamine night while the bands play and then come out en masse at night. Likewise many of the 'heads', more of a minority then anyone realizes, steer clear of the DJ's altogether. The problem is partly that I was very active in both the Halifax rave scene and the Jam world. Craig Mercer of JSB is likewise someone who has gone to alot of electronic parties, at least at Evolve 2 there was a general consensus that the DJ's sucked on the whole and that it insulted our intelligence that we don't know what good or bad DJ'ing is. Of course you can't say any of this or you'll be black balled for years and haunted by putzes hiding behind keyboards who want to wade in on a complex matter by pointing their finger and calling you a cokehead or something like that at least. Evolve 3 was an improvement on the DJ side with Amtrak headlining and I enjoyed Mike Mathers and Corey's sets all of whom are at very least acquaintances of mine. You see I know whereof I speak only one is not entitled to freely speak one's mind in our scene. It's like the worst game of broken telephone and he said she said and frankly everyone knows at rock bottom it's a fucking joke.
Given the fact that I really did my best on that occasion and others to do myself and the festival justice I don't know how much further I can or could go. I would say that piece was %90 positive with the focus obviously being that this is a very worthwhile festival, it opens with the line: New Years or your birthday may mark that a year has past but up here in the Great White North we put a notch in our collective belt every August in the heady little town of Antigonish, Nova Scotia. Another year goes by and the Evolve Festival has come to pass. When I arrived at the festival that year I took slack from assorted people and got dicked around on getting my pass. The implication is that if you are going to write about jam music you have to be %100 on side with whatever it is or your a pariah. I don't know how you could make out like it's anything else other than black balling someone for not glorifying you enough. The funny thing is that when they pulled down my article. First of all how were they able to do that in the first place. I had nothing to do with the festival neither did Jambase except via Ted Kartzman who is a principal at Jambase and the Slip's manager. Ted admitted to me he didn't understand what the problem was his exact comment being 'it's not called Ravebase'. He nonetheless admitted that they pulled it at their request and replaced it with a really badly written press release that read like a badly written press release. The absolutely hilarious and ironic thing about it all is that one passage goes on about cultural tourism and the Randolph Group report on Festivals and Events which comes out of MY RESEARCH. Jay Cleary did not spend hours on end researching obscure documents in government libraries I did. When it came time to submit for the grant Jay just called me to pick my brain for snippets of stuff and I'm sure it helped them get the grant which I believe they still get.
So whether it's through writing, dancing, research, networking or yes carrying on I am trying to make an impact on this scene. Apparently I'm doing a very good job or you wouldn't feel you had to hit below the belt. I don't know if people are milking a CASH COW or an EGO COW or a SACRED COW but there is definitely some milking going on. Please feel free to submit your full name, address, and a single hair follicle for testing fuckwad.

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