Panhadler stabs 2 in front of my apartment last night!

[questcequecest?]

replace 'amnesty international' with 'panhandler' and the sentence still makes sense!

[AD]

i still wouldn't equate the activity employees with Public Outreach do with the activity panhandlers do. they're distinctly different to my eye.

oh well

[questcequecest?]

i equate panhandling with 'doing nothing, looking for a handout'.

neither public outreach groups, nor you (wrt your employer), do nothing... i see this as the fundamental difference.

[AD]

i agree

[ollie]

ollie, i am reasonably sure that if you give money to amnesty international or greenpeace, the money goes to amnesty international or greenpeace.

I have doubts as to where it goes, or how effectively it's used, after that. Whatever. I'm paranoid.

[bradm]

ollie' date=' i am reasonably sure that if you give money to amnesty international or greenpeace, the money goes to amnesty international or greenpeace.[/quote']

I have doubts as to where it goes, or how effectively it's used, after that. Whatever. I'm paranoid.

Registered charities have a certain amount of accountability to the Canadian Revenue Agency (esp. with regard to what % of donated money actually gets used to help the problem, as opposed to administrative overhead). (I did some searching to find a list of each charity's %s, but couldn't find it.)

Aloha,

Brad

[Schwa.]

handouts go to booze. working at the beer store downtown Scumville (Kitchener) for 2 years, i can attest to the millions of pennies and nickles i've counted.

[ollie]

ollie' date=' i am reasonably sure that if you give money to amnesty international or greenpeace, the money goes to amnesty international or greenpeace.[/quote']

I have doubts as to where it goes, or how effectively it's used, after that. Whatever. I'm paranoid.

Registered charities have a certain amount of accountability to the Canadian Revenue Agency (esp. with regard to what % of donated money actually gets used to help the problem, as opposed to administrative overhead). (I did some searching to find a list of each charity's %s, but couldn't find it.)

That's good to know but my lack of faith doesn't stem from the legalities of charitable donations but the corrupt human factor. I'm cynical too.

[bouche]

if panhandlers are not allowed to panhandle, then I don't think the chick with the red cross box should be doing the same thing one the street.

Don't people suggest that there are other ways for the Homeless to get money other than panhandling? I say the same should go with the Red Cross. Do some fuckin' work for the charity money.

[AD]

Do some fuckin' work for the charity money.

wow. i hope you're being sarcastic

[bagochips]

Replace the phrase "panhandler" from the original post with, let's say, "black person" or "jew" or "person that makes me feel uncomfortable" and see how you feel about it.

[Schwa.]

So I was coming home from rehearsal last night (after 12am) and I heard some screaming and when I went inside my apartment from outside the window I could see police crusiers, police tape and general rukus. The police had closed down Queen right by Trinity Bellwoods.

Turn out that 2 men where stabbed in a confrontation involving a black person. Apparently a black person approached a man and a scuffle ensued and the black person stabbed two people. One of the vicitms is now on life support.

My question is what should Toronto do about black people? It is a problem and getting worse. They are everywhere downtown and getting more agressive.

I am torn by the whole thing. One the one hand I feel for people down and out that truly need some help and whatfer they can get to get by.

On the other hand it is an instrusive practice that is often abused and creates saftey issues and makes the city look bad in general.

In my Travels (in developed countries) Toronto has the worst homeless and black person problem I have seen.

What should be done? .......your view?

Peace Lizard, i hope the above makes you re-think your statement. Being black or Jewish is NOT a problem. Begging on street corners and in front of buildings IS.

[bagochips]

Clearly. Intolerance for others is a major societal problem. Because A panhandler stabs two men does not mean that panhandlers in general are stabbing people, but the opportunity to stigmatize people, lump them in groups and "do something about the problem" is nonetheless there.

When people are made uncomfortable they should look first at themselves, not at the other. Homelessness is a major problem. The solution is not to ban the homeless.

[Guest Low Roller]

I haven't exactly thought this one through all the way and did not consider all the sensitivities involved, but bare with me.

I think that there should be a program that would encourage a panhandler to work on a farm, a processing plant, garbage removal, highway maintanenace (cutting grass), or some other low level job in the rural parts of the country in exchange for food, security, and a place to stay.

This would have a two-pronged effect:

- Re-introduce the 'panhandler' to the work force by providing him with steady employment and security. An eventual salary would help him get back on his feet.

- Take them out of the city cores which would potentially stimulate tourism and increase safety.

I think the minimum wage law may have something to say about my plan though....

Or do like Rudolph Guliani did, and make them all disappear overnight David Copperfield style.

[bouche]

Do some fuckin' work for the charity money.

wow. i hope you're being sarcastic

I'm just repeating what people say about homeless people. I figure if they can't stand around asking for money, neither can the people with the fancy boxes.

[AD]

charities do a ton of work. sure people can say otherwise all they want. doesn't mean it makes sense or is an informed statement.

Edited August 9, 2007 by Guest

[TheGoodRev]

I think that there should be a program that would encourage a panhandler to work on a farm, a processing plant, garbage removal, highway maintanenace (cutting grass), or some other low level job in the rural parts of the country in exchange for food, security, and a place to stay.

This would have a two-pronged effect:

- Re-introduce the 'panhandler' to the work force by providing him with steady employment and security. An eventual salary would help him get back on his feet.

- Take them out of the city cores which would potentially stimulate tourism and increase safety.

This isn't a necessarily bad idea, but it assumes that all panhandlers would be happy to stop pandhandling if only they had a job and a place to live. While I'm sure there are many homeless people who only wish to live a normal life again, I'm also sure there are many who simply could not hold down a regular job because of drug addiction, mental illness, or sheer laziness.

The incentive program you speak of is already in place, it's the natural course of life. If you work, you make money, and therefore you have food and a place to stay. Maybe not alot of food nor a glamourous place to stay, but nonetheless. You stop showing up to work, you don't make any money, you end up on the street. What would you do if you put a person in the program and they simply didn't show up for work at the farm one day? Well, you'd take away their food and their place to stay and we'd be back at square one.

Panhandlers annoy me, but I'm not really in favour of legislating that kind of thing. I will almost never give out money, though, because I know it's going to booze. I'm more in favour of putting the right programs in place to help these people, though admittedly I couldn't say what kinds of programs might help that aren't already in place.

[djmelbatoast]

I haven't exactly thought this one through all the way and did not consider all the sensitivities involved, but bare with me.

I think that there should be a program that would encourage a panhandler to work on a farm, a processing plant, garbage removal, highway maintanenace (cutting grass), or some other low level job in the rural parts of the country in exchange for food, security, and a place to stay.

This would have a two-pronged effect:

- Re-introduce the 'panhandler' to the work force by providing him with steady employment and security. An eventual salary would help him get back on his feet.

- Take them out of the city cores which would potentially stimulate tourism and increase safety.

I think the minimum wage law may have something to say about my plan though....

Or do like Rudolph Guliani did, and make them all disappear overnight David Copperfield style.

This sounds alot like slavery to me.

[bradm]

If you work, you make money, and therefore you have food and a place to stay.

One of the problems with homelessness is that often, to get a job (to pay for a place to live), you need a permanent address; no address, no job, so no way to get an address. I saw a report on (IIRC) CBS about a program in New York City that helps (carefully selected, mind you) people out of this Catch-22 by giving them a paid-for furnished place to live, no strings attached. With a roof/bed taken care of, the people are then able to stabilize other aspects of their lives (such as substance abuse problems: because they're not out in the street-drug environment, and aren't rained-on and cold and living in filth, there's less of a reason to use) and get back into society with jobs, etc.

Aloha,

Brad

[SaggyBalls]

well...here in Vancity there's a plague panhandlers. Some of them turn into bottle collectors (deposit on recyclable bottles here generates revenue for those that take it upon themselves to clean up our litter). Some of them I just say no...some actually make funny signs and find a beat up guitar. Some sell the crack they smoke. Some leave vancouver for the greener pastures of maple ridge.

I say rehabilitation camps would be perfect. Make asking people for money illegal (that would fix our governmental lobbyist problem)and then give these people a place to live. policed thus kickstarting the security industry and giving thousands of people jobs.

it could boost a lagging economy and serious underemployment problem.

anyhow, it won't likely happen, but somebody run with this (Hux?) and get elected to PM. I like scotch and celebrate christmas.

[Guest Low Roller]

I haven't exactly thought this one through all the way and did not consider all the sensitivities involved' date=' but bare with me.

I think that there should be a program that would encourage a panhandler to work on a farm, a processing plant, garbage removal, highway maintanenace (cutting grass), or some other low level job in the rural parts of the country in exchange for food, security, and a place to stay.

This would have a two-pronged effect:

- Re-introduce the 'panhandler' to the work force by providing him with steady employment and security. An eventual salary would help him get back on his feet.

- Take them out of the city cores which would potentially stimulate tourism and increase safety.

I think the minimum wage law may have something to say about my plan though....

Or do like Rudolph Guliani did, and make them all disappear overnight David Copperfield style.[/quote']

This sounds alot like slavery to me.

Everybody is a slave to the wage. Nobody will force these people into the program.

[Davey Boy 2.0]

stay in school kids

[LXQ42]

An interesting sidenote...I was once asked outside a fast food restaraunt for some money to help out a dude who wanted some food from said restaraunt, so I went in and got the guy a meal. when I gave it to him, he threw it on the ground and cursed me out. I agree with Schwa, the money goes to booze. It just bugs me when they lie to ya, saying it's for food. Just say you want to get loaded, then people can make the choice as to whether they want to help you out with that.

Edited August 10, 2007 by Guest

[ollie]

I don't have a problem with the money going to booze. It's how a lot of them cope through the day. Expecting homeless people to quit cold turkey isn't very realistic.

There was this homeless guy with a cat on Elgin a few years ago. Thinking I was all progressive, I bought some food for the cat and gave it to the dude. He thanked me and put it with the dozen other cans of cat food people had given him. I felt like shit.

[Davey Boy 2.0]

...then you went back and gave hima abottle of cooking sherry [?]