Sex is the Same as it was

[d_rawk]

Hux, please don't ever leave the board again

[secondtube]

I'd rather think for myself

Oh the irony...

[Guest Low Roller]

Well, I responded to your take on the political angle of this debate, and you didn't respond. That was my natural response to those statements by the way.

Sorry dude, I am simply unable to answer everybody right now. I was planning on reading the link you posted once things cooled down a little and I could put my guard down without fear of character assassination on this board. Then I'd be in a better position to reply to your post.

[Esau]

I really am indifferent to the whole thing,it'll never effect my life in any significant way no matter how I could (if I did) feel about it.

Really nothing about a "traditional marriage" makes sense to me,ouside of tradition....

I can commit & make a vow for life (and mean it),express my love to a another (in my case a woman),admire,respect and accept the same in return.Have no expectations,but honesty & do that for life,unconditionally.No church,man of the cloth,500 witnesses or ceremony required.Just the two of us.

Now,I was never a religous kid,nor brought up to be one.My parents were always the type of people who would help guide instead of enforce their ways on me & ultimatley most choices were mine,so I choose to be agnostic,but *if* God is everything that christian beliefs teach (all knowing,loving & everywhere to hear you) then why the all the other stuff that makes marriage legal (non-related to the church or religous beliefs)? If those teachings are to be true then really,only God (and yourself) knows that the love,commitment & vows you have are sincere,not the witnesses,preacher,priest,gov't clerk who files your piece of paper,no one..but you & god.Pure honesty in my opinion & no piece of paper,ceremony or whatnot can prove that otherwise.

This is of course only my opinion,just seems to me the only person I have to prove my love & commitment to is the person I vowed that to.

[edit to add]

The topic is marriage right? lol

Edited June 29, 2005 by Guest

[Jaimoe]

I haven't the patience for you viewpoint today' date=' but good for you for being brave. Now change.[/quote']

No thanks. I'd rather think for myself and not cave into the pressures put on me by people like you.

If there is anything good I can say about homosexuality, is that it's a surefire way of curbing the overpopulation problem.

Not when legally married lesbians choose in vitro fertilization.

Edited June 29, 2005 by Guest

[secondtube]

i think it was a dig at gays getting HIV.

[Guest Low Roller]

I'd rather think for myself

Oh the irony...

I am not being forced to accept any views. I respect tradition, but I don't abide by it 100%. I used to smoke pot. I had premarital sex. All these things are major faux-pas in my upbringing. However I made the conscious decision to go with it. I thought for myself. I also thought for myself regarding the same-sex thing, and I decided to go against it. That's my decision. Nobody else chose for me.

I'm not like the cabinet ministers that were forced to vote "yes" by Paul Martin. (That's a lob into your side of the court Hux )

[Guest Low Roller]

i think it was a dig at gays getting HIV.

Wrong again. You're just shooting blanks today, aren't you?

I already said I have nothing against homosexuals, and I certainly do not wish death upon them.

I simply meant that they won't have any offspring, but I was nailed with a technicality of in-vitro fertilization with lesbians.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

Enough of this debate. I need to go smoke a fag...

(That means a cigarette in the UK)

Geez, I step out for a couple of hours, and look at all the action I miss out on.

You're to be commended, LR, for sticking out this debate.

That said, if I can throw something else in to muddy the waters - "extending the definition of marriage." This is what the West has been doing for a couple of centuries - the last one especially - with the word "religion." The word was never used as a noun until around the Renaissance, but once it was, people had a pretty "clear idea" of what it meant; no other tradition, in other words, counted as "real" religion. Should we continue to think that way? I meet a lot of people routinely who think so (I still get reams of students who use the phrase "Christians and Catholics," to split the hair even more finely); I consider myself the richer, though, for being able to take something like Buddhism or Islam seriously, and to understand, more importantly, that other people take those even more seriously. In other words, they're fully human, and, ideally, fully sincere.

It's that element of (interpersonal) sincerity - two adults loving each other and making long-tem commitments to one another - that would seem to be missing in the leap to predicting marriage between people and their pets that you hear too many people making (I know LR was just being hyperbolic, but politicians and other demagogues simply shouldn't be allowed to be).

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

I haven't the patience for you viewpoint today' date=' but good for you for being brave. Now change.[/quote']

No thanks. I'd rather think for myself and not cave into the pressures put on me by people like you.

If there is anything good I can say about homosexuality, is that it's a surefire way of curbing the overpopulation problem.

Not when legally married lesbians choose in vitro fertilization.

According to Jerry Falwell's logic, lesbians come out as God's chosen people for having the lowest HIV infection rates of any group. Fine by me, really.

[d_rawk]

I'm not like the cabinet ministers that were forced to vote "yes" by Paul Martin.

They weren't so much forced by Paul Martin as by the Parliamentary convention of cabinet solidarity. They are not simply MPs - they are cabinet members, and as such, make decisions collectively and support them collective despite private opinion.

Not trying to steal Hux's ball. Just putting it up in the air so he can spike it.

Edited June 29, 2005 by Guest
to remove unnessary singling out of David Kilgour

[Freeker]

My guess is that Roller, like most out spoken anti-gay religious types is in fact a closet self hating homosexual so scared and stuck in denial that he lashes out in all directions hoping to take any heat off himself and his carnal natural urges.

Don't worry Roller God loves you....Oh wait there is no God... not to worry Darwin still loves you.

[Guest Low Roller]

Now that we've reduced this thread to mud-slinging, then there is no real point to continue.

I've expressed my views, not expecting to convince anyone to change their minds. But I also was expecting a lot more less civil responses. I'm willing to call it a draw if we all agree to disagree.

[paisley]

anyone wanna switch teams?

gettin nowhere with the ladies...

[TomFoolery]

You got long hair.

Yer kinda cute with the glasses n' all...

[Deeps]

Done.

[d_rawk]

I'm willing to call it a draw if we all agree to disagree.

I'll take that offer. I think you've been a great sport.

[Douglas]

sorry...but I just got a chance to read this thread. I'll keep it short.

I'm glad that everyone is staying level-headed in this thread and not threatening to beat me to death with an 18-inch black rubber cock.

Perhaps it was comments such at that one that got people hot-headed...including myself. That was just ridiculous and does not reflect your character (or so I thought).

You know I love ya, even though we have completely different veiws about this subject (and others which I won't mention)...just like I'm sure you are capable of loving a homosexual, right? Yeah, I know you said you had a gay roommate...but you just couldn't mention him without refering to his preference of "taking it up the chuffer."

Have your opinion. Feel free to state it. But be just a wee bit more mature about it. That's not too much to ask, is it? Your beliefs don't hurt my feelings, but your comments do.

[Guest Low Roller]

The black rubber cock comment was taken from the movie Lock, Stock, and Two Smoking Barrels. I needed to think of an amusing way to describe being verbally beaten, and that popped into my head.

I learned the word "chuffer" in England, and I laugh every time I hear someone using it over here. It's probably my new favorite word. I felt like using it.

Maybe I could've used more sensitivity when searching for syntax.

Hopefully we'll share some beers in August Dougie!

[Douglas]

If we're going to share beers then I want to know that I don't have to worry about what "pops into your head" especially when my gay friends are at the table with us.

Two reasons why I chimed in on this thread:

1 - I believe in gay rights

2 - You're a good friend LR, and I wouldn't be harsh if I didn't care about our friendship.

[Guest Low Roller]

Don't worry. I wouldn't do anything to make your gay friends feel uncomfortable. I've proven that already when I met them previously.

[bouche]

I believe that marriage is an extremely noble goal that a man and a woman attain together to join their lives. I'm working towards that goal right now. Me and my girlfriend have outlined several goals that we need to strive for in order to be ready for marriage in about three years time. I'm working my ass off right now.

Why are you guys working towards marriage? Is it because you are a man and she is a woman (tradition), or is it because you are in LOVE and want to share the rest of your lives together with all of the benefits that legal marriage has to offer loving and hard working couples and prove to the world that you are together forever(a real reason)?

Why is it that homosexuals aren't allowed to have a 'noble goal to attain together and join their lives'? I have been waiting for something, anything tossed in the entire arguement against same-sex marriage that makes sense in any way. Not just in this gynormous thread, but in the newspapers too.

Having the belief that 2 people can't be married based on 'tradition' has me boggled. I have not seen one reason that 2 gay people can't be married like a man and a woman except for the word 'tradition'. I hate that word.

All I read about being against same-sex marriage is that the traditional marriage is between a man and a women. The word 'tradition' just has to

be dropped. Many traditions aren't here for any reason other than the fact that they are traditions. What's the deal with valentine's day and Turkey

at Thanksgiving? Sure, turkey is a tradition, but people are free to choose another main course.

How about the 'traditional' marriage? How much money do people make of the 'traditional' white dress, the 'traditional' cake and flowers. Don't get

me started on the 'tradition' of diamonds and the damn speeches. Tradition is not a reason to hold up the gov't and

cause arguements on who should and shouldn't marry. I can understand why a brother and sister shouldn't marry, but that's about it.

there are some people that just shouldn't marry out there, and it has nothing to do with being homosexual. How many couples have you met that got married out of pressure of life in the race to get married to someone....anyone ?

[Douglas]

Don't worry. I wouldn't do anything to make your gay friends feel uncomfortable. I've proven that already when I met them previously.

but even if they're not there, it makes me uncomfortable too. Actually, I'm so far past feeling uncomfortable. It offends me.

[d_rawk]

not meaning to stir the pot, but to provoke discussion (and a reminder that I support same-sex marriage unequivocally) ...

I can understand why a brother and sister shouldn't marry

But what if:

"you are in LOVE and want to share the rest of your lives together with all of the benefits that legal marriage has to offer loving and hard working couples and prove to the world that you are together forever(a real reason)"?

[SaggyBalls]

d_rawk - hear here. i just hope they don't have kids and potentially pollute and already messed up gene pool.

just look at barn cats...cats aren't supposed to have 9 toes.

I hope this new legislation will make this ridiculous issue into what it was to me the whole time - a non-issue. obviously it's an issue because some people lacked rights, but i never understood the problem. i think that gay people should have the same rights as everybody else, no matter how flaming they are...and for the record, flamboyancy gets on my nerves unless it's done with unique flair that lends itself to a bit of charm...that's pretty much my only issue with homosexuals. Lesbians sometimes resent men, so since i have nothing to do with people that would typically avoid me, i don't mind being hated for having a penis. i find it silly but no skin off my back.

so congratulations to any homosexuals that care to get married. i hope you don't have to go through messy divorces...

and low roller...i appreciate you piping up - i hope all is well for you. just remember...if you have to work at a relationship someday there'll be a retirement...hope you're a workaholic till you die dude.