paisley

have actually honed up my environmental knowledge/memories suprisingly over the last 24 hours so I'm not counting it as a loss =) god knows I was born into this world to do a little more than just work in front of a computer on perfect sunny summer dayz... yarrr

no we see it the same bro... lived in Sault Ste Marie for a year and love the north beyond words (minus the black flies)... those are my instructors words I conveyed (sort of thing that chased me out of the program bummed out as hell, that and being told finishing college forestry and trying to make changes in the industry would get me shipped off to timbuktu counting geese migrations) if I was steering the ship would aim that no natural habitat would be pushed to extinction... wood and pulp would cost 10 times what it does now no matter what region it came from (not to mention what I'd do to the drug laws... bwahahaha) am not sure how much allowing selective logging in Algonquin would prevent clear cuts in the north... just would hate to see the last of the original forest in Algonquin disappear edit to add: no worries at all my friend... all this talk has me itching for some bush partying out in the southern ontario "mutt" forest (I literally jumped out of my seat and was going for him when he called our forests that... lol)

Not sure I can get my head around that sorta thinking. The more logging that occurs in the north the worse off things get in my opinion. From my knowledge and expirence of canoeing in the north (north of Cochrane)' date=' the more north you go the more fragile the eco-systems can be in some cases, smaller (and lesser) trees, unique wildlife that can't survive in the south or the greater north. eg: Woodland caribou which were re-introduced in 96 around superior after logging (clearcutting) on crownland drove them away for years. Anyway, like I said, I don't wanna see the old growth go thats for sure. My favourite spot in Algonquin (Sunbeam Lake) has some amazing old growth around it, but at the same time I really enjoy the crownland just one hour northwest Algonquin where I go almost every summer camping and canoeing (place I went for that 7 week camp/canoe trip). I'd much rather see selective controlled logging then the clear cutting of some crownland.[/quote'] as I remember it was told nothing in southern Ontario is fully natural southern Ontario forest anymore, just remnants ("mutt forest" my one instructor called it) multitudes of species have dissappeared... there's a pretty epic amount of extinct trees and foliage in this area, not to mention birds, animals, insects, algae, microbes central ontario is a different type of forest and was in better shape but was nearing the breaking point (took forestry 20 years ago... wow... time...) northern forests, while fragile are quite plentiful by comparison and could still weather a certain amount of logging without becoming extinct that was then though... am sure things have changed in the past 20 years... likely if the forestry minded were looking north back then a lot of damage has been done since so is a good chance northern forests are in as precarious shape as the central forests

I strongly agree with those methods of change too reason I got heated on the discussion is that one thing I did retain while studying forestry is that it doesn't take much at all to upset an ecosystem... I love hiking and was sadly suprised to hear how damaging simple foot paths are to forests on the whole... there's a fine line between a natural forest turning into a park... to preserve any old growth you have to just leave it alone... but then again maybe the damage is already done... I'm not an authority on Algonquin, just like it when I end up in it anywho, this thread is now locked from my mind... back to work!

well, perhaps I came into the discussion ill prepared (someone e-mailed me a link yesterday so thought I'd post it as it tugged some heart strings)... at the time trusted Ontario Parks were in a position to know if this was worthwhile or not... now I feel a little more maybe/maybe not I remember my smarter seeming forestry instructors felt logging further north was better for the overall picture for some reason or other... sadly don't remember the whole story (the program was mostly teaching me how to chop down forests, not keep them standing so I bailed after first year) already signed that thing yesterday and still feel fine I did... Sagittarians love to debate whether they're right or not, guess I can be a sucker for pretty much any cause... certainly wouldn't chose clear-cut anywhere over selective logging... basically assumed the selective logging would have to take place somewhere else while Algonquin got some time off today is actually the last day to sign it (I said tomorrow earlier on) if you feel so inclined gotta do some work, more discussion on the subject with you fellers over some beers soon

to me its as much an aesthetic treasure as it is a natural one... having it close-by is extremely healthy for our polluted region as well... my personal bottom line is I feel land thats survived this long should earn some sort of grace as I've actually seen it and smelt it there's a personal attachment too rather see European and Asian tourists take eco-tours through Algonquin than have the closest truly natural area be a 12 hour drive north where most people in ontario will never see it

I agree whole-heartedly with the hemp thing the Algonquin thing to me is about you can't replace relatively accessible untouched forest... I believe such areas are crucial to human well being... let the forestry companies have to go where people won't bother the forestry industry is monitored pretty intensely by both governmental and public watchdogs these days, could see your clear-cutting point moreso a few decades back this isn't an activist movement... this is a government agency (Ontario Parks) recommending that more park be preserved... considering global warming and the booming expansion of suburbs and consumer product lust, I agree

right on, everyone should say their piece should mention that crown land is public land not private (and is where almost all corporate logging takes place... quite a bargain for the industry) far as I know clear-cutting is illegal now, even on your own property you have to obtain a bunch of tough to obtain permits before you mess around too much with the forest

sounds like somebody's due for a good ol fashioned bender (or I guess a little camping might help... maybe)

sigh... sorry bro, keeping some of the last remaining old growth standing isn't a point I'm going to budge on... simply love the forest, the more natural the better there's tree farms from Guelph to Sudbury... the world need large natural areas for life to continue... we breathe air it'll take 5 human lifetimes to recreate the type of forests that are put in harms way by continuing logging... logging it will add to the global warming problem... there could be an unknown type of moss in there that one day leads to a cure for your emphasyma... European and Asian tourists are crazy about being able to visit such areas if ya don't wanna sign in, don't sign it =)

more than glad to pass it along

there's .5% of the original old growth forest left in Algonquin, I don't think they're going overboard on conservation... and there are actually rare species of everything from moss to eagles that only thrive in old growth... what they taught me in forestry anyways also learned about how selective logging can help in some situations... unfortunately the forestry industry operates around meeting a bottom line and has been known to bend the reality of many environmental situations for the sake of turning one type of green into another from wikipedia if not for the animals or to prevent the carbon release into the atmosphere, old growth forests are some of the most tranquil and gorgeous places on the planet... people should think twice before snuffing out the last of such environs

ba-bump http://www.ancientforest.org/algonquin.htm link providing some info on the remaining old growth forest in Algonquin deadline for public comment on the matter is tomorrow today

taking an area and designating that it remain untouched does the most good for the area and the planet... leave it alone and it does what its designed to do, provide refuge for wildlife and manufacture oxygen... an ecosystem is highly dependent on everything within it... cut into it and it can't do that as well as if you don't if there's another large area of (fairly) old growth forest in central ontario we could leave untouched I'm all for it... there are stands of old hemlock and yellow birch forest within its boundaries, where the trees are 200 to 400 years old... only way to replace such an area is leave it alone for 2 - 4 hundred years... as I said, this just seems like a good opportunity to actually do something immediately instead of thinking about doing something someday

apperently if you hook any plant up to electrodes to monitor its energy then rip off a leaf it seems to "scream" least it doesn't bleed all over the place though

granted everyone definately need to reduce their consumption and pass laws to limit how much business can waste promoting themselves etc... but this is something that can be done today to preserve one of the oldest natural ecosystems in ontariariario worth 2 minutes of my time... lots of forest outside of Algonquin to log... gotta draw a line somewhere

(Edit: today's the last day to sign this if you feel you want to) a friend passed this along http://www.savealgonquin.ca/ apperently Ontario Parks is recommending that an additional 2500 square kms of Algonquin be protected from logging and could use some public support... natural old growth parks like Algonquin are becoming a rare commodity on the planet... these areas are also important in reducing the effects of global warming... let them send a letter to the Ministry of Natural Resources on your behalf (and your local MPP) if you feel it matters to you... the deadline is June 15 http://www.wildlandsleague.org/

for MarcO. tonight. at The Casbah. http://www.nasradandflex.com/

any potty shots hit the presses yet? (who's twisted mind came up with the bright idea to put glass doors on the 'special' female celebrity area cells anyhow)

quotd for tomorrow: mouthful of cocaine from a strange woman or a mouthful for impulsive homosexual

He obviously IS the champion.

stop looking at those sites! you'll go blind.

Meat Beat Manifesto ...in Dub 1. Introduction Dub 2. Echo In Space Dub 3. Spinning Round Dub 4. Fromage Dub 5. Intermission Dub 6. Super Soul Dub 7. Caramel Dub 8. Happiness Supreme Dub 9. Retrograde Dub 10. Timebomb Dub 11. Radiation Dub 12. Retrograde Pt. 2 Dub We R 1 awesome... MBM rules

shuttle plume What kind of cloud is that? Not a naturally occurring one. Pictured above is the drifting smoke plume left over from last Friday's launch of the Space Shuttle Atlantis. The twisted plume was captured shortly after launch high above NASA's massive Vehicle Assembly Building, the largest single story building in the world. Rockets frequently create picturesque plumes during launch. The Space Shuttle is currently visiting the International Space Station and delivering a new backbone truss segment to the continually developing and occupied spaceport. This trip, officially labeled STS-117, is the 118th space shuttle flight overall and the 28th for the Atlantis Orbiter. astronomy pic of the day

many thanks brad and tash, making this my afternoon project of pictures and sound