Gay marriage part of 'ideology of evil,' pope says

[Jaimoe]

It's no wonder why Queen's has one, if not the best theology programs in the country.

[Freak By Night]

Would you like to see the pope on the end of a rope?

Do you think he's a fool?

- "After Forever" by Black Sabbath

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

It's no wonder why Queen's has one, if not the best theology programs in the country.

No doubt - it doesn't seem to have the same sorts of problems (or at least not as exaggeratedly so, from what I understand) in distinguishing between academic and theological approaches to religion; of course, its being affiliated with the United Church, arguably the most progressive denomination in Canada, doesn't hurt either. But yeah, some great people on faculty. Tensions between academic and confessional study of religion seem to run higher at Toronto; chairs have literally been broken over heads. And Western, from what I hear, is just ugly (no offense to people from London or anything!) - something about the Anglican Huron diocese in general, apparently. Where else can you hear people publicly griping about reparations to First Nations over residential schools?

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

Would you like to see the pope on the end of a rope?

Do you think he's a fool?

- "After Forever" by Black Sabbath

I did, when I was 12, at a cheesy gift shop in the Vatican. Remember Soap on a Rope? Sure enough, there was JPII, ready for the shower to clean and/or lubricate all the body's nooks and crannies, even the ones they're not supposed to be thinking about. Seriously! I've always wondered what the hell they were thinking.

Looked kinda like this:

http://www.asos.com/images/prods/BGINO6087/image1xl.JPG

[Guest Low Roller]

Maybe related, maybe not.

I find it interesting that so many people love to question, almost slander, the Catholic church and their beliefs, with no media repercussions, yet if anyone mention gays in a negative light it's like they are bringing up the Holocaust. So many people are up in arms when someone questions the rights of gays, but nobody cares if the church gets slagged with comments like "The Pope smokes dope".

Example. Which statement offends you more:

A- "The Catholic church is an archaic organization that does not reflect current moral standards and should stop trying to brainwash us with their outdated doctrine, and priests like to touch little boys."

B- "Homosexuality is a psychological disorder that should be treated similarly to ADD or tourette's syndrome- with the use of prescription drugs."

I bet close to 100% will either be more offended with statement B or too afraid to speak up for fear of being labeled a gay-basher despite what the right answer may be. The "right answer" in a democracy is of course based on the view of the majority.

Sadly, church bashing has become an accepted form of dialogue but hate speech is still hate speech regardless whether we are talking about gays or Catholics.

Now back to your regularly scheduled poking fun of the Pontiff.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

Sadly, church bashing has become an accepted form of dialogue but hate speech is still hate speech regardless whether we are talking about gays or Catholics.

Very true. At the same time, there is the question of who's been able to abuse their power for longer, in harsh contradiction to basic tenets at the heart of their own tradition. There's that old newspaper credo, that the real job to be done is to comfort the afflicted, and to afflict the comfortable; that seems like a handy yardstick. Might even get around the problem of hate, too.

[TomFoolery]

I guess my question is not 'why do people get upset by gay marriage'? I know the mechanics of that - covenant with god for the purpose of procreation blah blah blah. Rather, I don't understand how they feel someone else's actions affect them.

This business about defiling the underlying sanctity of marriage is tripe. Homosexuals are looking for legal recognition of civil marriages. To my knowledge there is no movement in any established church to bring same sex marriage into the fold of organized religion. In my mind's eye this concept can only be threatening to someone who has some completely sociopathic self importance.

To me it reads as very weak people who require the psychological crutch of a 'tribe' (for lack of a better term) they can call their own, and a 'them' to whom they can then redirect their anger arising from all their own short-comings.

I shoulda never read this thread. This is something that really pisses me off. My fundamental philosophy of life and spirtuality is simple: be kind and generous to everyone you meet and the recipricol spiritual payoff enlightens. Or, to coin a phrase "All you need is love".

The idea of blocking access to an institution that will give joy and happiness to someone just because their lifestyle is not one I would choose violates that fundamental principle.

Arghhhh! I'm done.

[Sheebs]

its for tax purposes and the tax benefits you get when your recognized as a family. The insurance world might reconize it but revenue Canada didn't. as for the church, those who desperatley want to be recognized can find a church that will.

I think its all the half assed parents out there who are too uncomfortable explaining to their kids why little billy has two daddies

[Jaimoe]

I'm waiting for someone to develop the TV show " Gay Divorce Court ".

[Display_Name]

Sadly, church bashing has become an accepted form of dialogue but hate speech is still hate speech regardless whether we are talking about gays or Catholics.

I find it interesting that so many people love to question, almost slander, the Catholic church and their beliefs, with no media repercussions, yet if anyone mention gays in a negative light it's like they are bringing up the Holocaust.

slan•der

n.

1. Oral communication of false statements injurious to a person's reputation.

2. A false and malicious statement or report about someone.

So people label priests as pedophiles and the pope says homosexuality is evil...let's check the record, who is slandering who?

from: http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2005/02/18/abuse-050218.html

"Last year, the bishops released a statistical review that found 4,392 priests had been accused of molesting children in 10,667 cases between 1950 and 2002.

The cost of payouts to victims has now climbed to $840 million, McChesney said.

"The crisis of sexual abuse of minors within the Catholic church is not over," she said. "What is over is the denial that this problem exists."

The data was compiled in visits to dioceses nationwide by audit teams, comprised mainly of former FBI agents."

The catholic church is admitting these crimes took place by paying victims.

Saying priests are pedophiles therefore, is not exactly slander, so where are the statitics that back up the Pope's views on homosexuals?

The Pope is slandering homosexuals and encouraging hate - nice beliefs.

[bald guy in a blanket]

Example. Which statement offends you more:

A- "The Catholic church is an archaic organization that does not reflect current moral standards and should stop trying to brainwash us with their outdated doctrine, and priests like to touch little boys."

B- "Homosexuality is a psychological disorder that should be treated similarly to ADD or tourette's syndrome- with the use of prescription drugs."

I'm not offended by either.

One has a basis in fact and one is a tried and repeatedly failed attempt to stifle behaviour that is naturally found in many mammals throughout the animal kingdom.

It's not "OK" to slander anyone.

Satire, though, is based on fact.

AND...If you think the world is currently less critical of being gay than Catholic, try kissing a man full on the lips with your mouth open in public anywhere other than the "gaybourhood" and then reasses your opinion.

Jef

[paisley]

Scots Can Now Marry Their Mother-In-Laws

Scottish men can now marry their ex-mothers-in-law following legal changes by the Scottish Executive.

Scottish women are also free to marry their former fathers-in-law as a result of the changes, reports the Herald.

The family law reforms change laws dating back to 1567, based on the Old Testament, which said that if a man takes a wife and lies with her mother, all three should be burned alive.

[ggrtrhhrtgg]

Once again, the world's most influential muppet realigns his flock's moral compass.

Weekend at Bernie's 3 - The Vatican Adventure.

hahahahahaahahahahahahahahah

ahahahahahahahahhahahahahahah

hahahaahahahahahahahahhhahahah

brilliant.

My favourite line from the Movie "Motorcycle Diaries" comes from the adolescent tour guide in Peru.

"and here is Jesus Christ Inc." and he points to a Church. I will have another story to tell in the true story thread later... great thread, some interesting opinions.

[Guest Low Roller]

So people label priests as pedophiles and the pope says homosexuality is evil...let's check the record, who is slandering who?

Homosexuality is viewed by the Roman Catholic church as being deviant behaviour that goes against God's intented purpose for man and woman. Humans are the only animals on this planet that display consistent homosexual behaviour. According to the Church if God intended homosexuality to be natural, then it would be widespread throughout the animal kingdom.

"Last year, the bishops released a statistical review that found 4,392 priests had been accused of molesting children in 10,667 cases between 1950 and 2002.

You're telling me that some dude never acted gay so he can try and score with some chick? I'm sure the statistics for that would be staggering as well. I think a lot of problems would be solved if the clergy were allowed to marry, which of course is forbidden by the Catholic church.

The Pope is slandering homosexuals and encouraging hate - nice beliefs.

And you're encouraging hate towards the church, I guess it's a stalemate.

[secondtube]

According to the Church if God intended homosexuality to be natural, then it would be widespread throughout the animal kingdom.

what the hell kind of reasoning is that?

[Super Freak]

I think a lot of problems would be solved if the clergy were allowed to marry, which of course is forbidden by the Catholic church.

The Pope is slandering homosexuals and encouraging hate - nice beliefs.

And you're encouraging hate towards the church, I guess it's a stalemate.

I guess if they are allowed to marry 8 year old alter boys and sodomize them--maybe then that would fix the problem.

[Super Freak]

quote mishap...wierd

[Display_Name]

Have you ever heard of Bonobos? Possibly our closest relative?

"They seem to resolve a lot of their conflicts with sexual behaviour," he says. "If two bonobos have a fight, they may make up with a sexual reconciliation, which is typical for their species. So there's a lot of sexual activity that goes on that has more social meaning than reproductive meaning." Their sexuality also mirrors humans in a couple of other ways, too.

"Bonobos have a greater variety of sexual postures," he reveals. "The bonobos can do it any way they want – and they can do it face to face also. So positionally – so to speak – they have a richer repertoire.

And their sexual behaviour is not just male to female. It's also female-to-female and male-to-male and male-to-juvenile." In fact, they make the human sexual revolution of the sixties and seventies look tame.

Science Today @ Discovery.ca

What really matters however, is that humans do this.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

According to the Church if God intended homosexuality to be natural, then it would be widespread throughout the animal kingdom.

Problem is (I'm taking this sentence out of context, sorry), it is fairly consistent, statistically, across the animal kingdom. Look at the recent trouble they had with those penguins at that German zoo (see http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4264913.stm).

I keep thinking the best answer - it's not hard to see how pissed off this would make people - is to allow anyone to provisionally marry, but only to fully ratify it once they'd had kids (kind of like drivers' licenses for teenagers); that would give them the tax breaks, protection from getting beat up by suburban pinheads driving around in muscle cars looking for people to beat up, etc. Might force some folks to take their rationales against "non-procreative" (i.e. gay) sexuality a bit more seriously - if they ever gave the idea a second thought, which is completely improbable. Look, are Charles and Camilla planning on kids?

'Course, it would take someone without kids to propose it, so I'm out of the running. Anybody? Might make headlines... (or, again, not).

[Display_Name]

________________________________________

"Last year, the bishops released a statistical review that found 4,392 priests had been accused of molesting children in 10,667 cases between 1950 and 2002.

________________________________________

You're telling me that some dude never acted gay so he can try and score with some chick? I'm sure the statistics for that would be staggering as well. I think a lot of problems would be solved if the clergy were allowed to marry, which of course is forbidden by the Catholic church.

But "trying to score a chick" is not illegal. Molesting children is. If you do it - you are a sex criminal, and go to jail. It ruins lives, these are not just statistics, think of the lives of the families of these victims - many who have committed suicide.

[Asparagus]

Bonobos are only the beginning.

How about dolphins, manatees, as well dozens and dozens of species of birds. Dogs and cats. Crabs that change their gender several times throughout their lives. The list goes on and on and on and on.

We, as humans, are one of the least consistent species when it comes to homosexuality. Homosexuality is rampant in Nature.

[Alexis]

darius humps bailey, really bad, and bailey humps darius real bad too.

but darius ain't no he-ho. bailey's his only he-bitch.

[guigsy]

and even cross breeding, amongst domesticated animals. the first time i witnessed it, i was 17, in the hallway at a friends house, i heard an awful pitched kinda 'mmmmrrwwwaaaaaaa', turned around and the small male pug had mounted the smaller, more frightened, male cat. i'll admit to getting a good chuckle, but i would have fu©king hated to be that cat.

[hamilton]

I find myself a little confused with the gay marriage debate/issue. ON a number of levels..

If same-sex coules are allowed to get married (I know a few married lesbian couples), have the same rights as a straight couple in terms of insurance and plan-benefits, and can have (artifical insem/ adopt) kids .. Is the key issue here that gays want to be recognized by the church? or governemnt? .. who cares about the fu©king church. Is this a fear of god thing? I'm not sure if the legal definition of marriage changing would have impact on a legal union. is that what its about?

Anybody know their sh!t on this?

I'm pretty sure I do; I think it goes like this:

Even if this current bill fails, gay marriage will still be legal in the x-number of provinces and territories whose Supreme Courts have struck down the current definition of the law. The other provinces and territories would not have to allow same-sex marriages, until the Supreme Court of Canada strikes down the law (which, surely, would eventually happen).

I think that the government is doing this to make the law a positive one, rather than a negative one. Currently the law (as found by the Supreme Courts of those x-provinces) says that the government can't ban same-sex marriages; now, the government is trying to change the definition of marriage so that homosexuals can marry. It's kind of like the difference between saying, "I do not refuse to eat pizza," and, "I love pizza." Does that make sense?

Anyway, I think the reason that the government must change the definition of marriage, rather than simply passing a new law to say that same-sex marriages are legal, is that there are probably thousands of other laws out there whose definition of the word marriage depends entirely on how it is defined in the original law - the one that they are now trying to change. Otherwise, an army of lawyers would have to examine every law out there that uses this original definition and change it - which would literally take forever.

Sh!t. I'm really stoned, but I know what I'm trying to say... I hope that makes sense to someone... Stone Mtn! Help! Am I talking shite?

[bONES]

My fundamental philosophy of life and spirtuality is simple: be kind and generous to everyone you meet and the recipricol spiritual payoff enlightens. Or, to coin a phrase "All you need is love".

nicely put TF ::

i have to ask myself this...who should really be married here

the man who beats his wife and hates his life

or 2 woman who are lovers and best friends?

shouldn't marriage be about a loving reunion between 2 people? regardless of your religious beliefs, the gender you dig or the tax breaks you get from it!