ramblings

[ggrtrhhrtgg]

I want to share something I thought about this evening with all of you... Why do I share these thoughts with you??? (I mean to be frank, you might consider the notion that I am crazy for sharing) however, I guess sometimes I just need to blurt out random thoughts to strangers, but like-wise thinkers... Anyhow... this evening I was told there are English positions open in the Catholic Board, and I mentioned that I did not apply to that board, and I refrained from explaining why, which was met with a comment about getting a pastoral referral... In truth, I would have difficulty getting one, since I only go to church on x-mas eve with my mom... Apart from that, I have virtually no association with the catholic church... Well, on my way home, I put on 97 Rock--Buffalo and "I've Seen All Good People.." was on, and it took my thoughts to thinking about the reasons why I don't apply to the Catholic board, I mean, I am Catholic, I was baptized, heck I was even an alter boy at one time... However, I figured that it came down to philosophical differences. I thought about that for a minute or two, and what differences are there?? And a new idea came to mind--- why does religion preach about some mystical place that is un-imaginably better than what we experience here?? Well, at this point in time, I was getting out of my car, I smelled the fresh air, took a look at the stars (which I will briefly remind you represent possible worlds---((wow--worlds)) of life that we cannot even begin to truly contemplate)

Now, I wonder, if we collectively focused our attention on what we have here, instead of what might be, would we not have a better place to live in??

I guess I wish we would just stop shitting on this lovely planet of ours.

amor vincit omnia

[Booche]

Are you holding?

[ggrtrhhrtgg]

nah hit me.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

Thanks for those ruminations, N! You appeal to my post-Anglican cynicism!

why does religion preach about some mystical place that is un-imaginably better than what we experience here??

It is nice to know there is a proper RC mystical tradition which doesn't defer ecstasy to an imagined future. People like Thomas Merton are gold here; I wonder if it's not because they broke through to new horizons by taking other traditions seriously. His The Way of Chuang Tzu is still one of my favourite bedtime reads.

[deranger]

religion is the opiate of the masses.

--- Karl Marx

[StoneMtn]

The essence of Christianity is told us in the Garden of Eden story. The fruit that was forbidden was on the tree of knowledge. The subtext is, "All the suffering you have is because you wanted to find out what was going on. You could be in the Garden of Eden if you had just kept your fucking mouth shut and hadn't asked any questions." ... Anybody who wants religion is welcome to it, as far as I'm concerned — I support your right to enjoy it. However, I would appreciate it if you exhibited more respect for the rights of those people who do not wish to share your dogma, rapture or necrodestination.

- Frank Zappa

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

I would be a shame, I think, were Christianity, or any other tradition, for that matter, to be left in the hands of the chronically paranoid and insecure.

I say this against the background of where I am today and tomorrow, a meeting of societies given to the academic study of religion, which operates in sometimes pretty clear (and even hostile) distinction from the lunatic fringe.

It's a difficult path, though; recently, the American Academy of Religion (the academic stream) voted to formally separate from the Society for Biblical Literature (the confessional stream) because (to make a very long story very short) the latter consistently refuse to open up certain things for critique. It sure makes life easier in many ways for the former, but when are the latter ever going to be challenged by the serious questions? Sometimes people have to be met where they stand (plus, on pragmatic grounds, it's the latter who seem to offer the lion's share of jobs).

I would argue with Zappa above, if only on the grounds that he's giving a reductionistic reading of the myth that plays right into the hands of the aforementioned lunatic fringe. Myth by nature is way more complex than all that.

[TheGoodRev]

The essence of Christianity is told us in the Garden of Eden story. The fruit that was forbidden was on the tree of knowledge. The subtext is, "All the suffering you have is because you wanted to find out what was going on. You could be in the Garden of Eden if you had just kept your fucking mouth shut and hadn't asked any questions." ... Anybody who wants religion is welcome to it, as far as I'm concerned — I support your right to enjoy it. However, I would appreciate it if you exhibited more respect for the rights of those people who do not wish to share your dogma, rapture or necrodestination.

- Frank Zappa

That's awesome, StoneMtn. Thanks for sharing, I had never read that.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

I must be getting soft on religion or something... .

[paisley]

grew up roman catholic but a little piece of paper once told me that god is simply the all the intertwined energy in the universe(s)... a focus of intent (termed prayer by religions) can potentially harness that energy to varying degrees... most religions started out to mean well I believe but became too tied down in the past as well as became tools for furthering political interests

Edited May 28, 2005 by Guest

[StoneMtn]

Aaaaah, the Little-piece-of-paper-is-always-correct Theory.

Although he has a different spin on it than Paisley I believe Zappa also addresses that in "Dumb All Over" from the album "You Are What You Is"...

Hey, we can't really be dumb

If we're just following God's Orders

Hey, let's get serious...

God knows what he's doin'

He wrote this book here

An' the book says:

He made us all to be just like Him," so...

If we're dumb...

Then God is dumb...

[ggrtrhhrtgg]

y'all rock!

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

From the "Jesus, save me from your followers" pile:

And if these words you do not heed

Your pocketbook just kinda might recede

When some man comes along and claims godly need

He will clean you out right through your tweed

*That's right, remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over...*

He's got twenty million dollars

In his heavenly bank account...

All from those chumps who was

Born again

Oh yeah, oh yeah

He's got seven limousines

And a private plane...

All for the use of his

Special friends

Oh yeah, oh yeah

He's got thousand-dollar suits

And a Wembley Tie...

Girls love to stroke it

While he's on the phone

Oh yeah, oh yeah

At the House of Representatives

He's a groovy guy...

When he gives thanks

He is not alone...

He is dealin'

He is really dealin'

IRS Can't determine

Where the hook is

It is easy with the Bible

To pretend that

You're in show biz

They won't get him

They will never get him

For the naughty stuff

That he did

It is best in cases like this

To pretend that

You are stupid

He's got presidential help

All along the way

He says the grace

While the lawyers chew

Oh yeah

They sure do

And the Govenors agree to say:

"He's a lovely man!"

He makes it easier for

Them to screw

All of you...

Yes, that's true!

'Cause he helps put the fear of God

In the common man

Snatchin' up money

Everywhere he can

Oh yeah

Oh yeah

He's got twenty million dollars

In his Heavenly Bank Account

You ain't got nothin', people

You ain't got nothin', people

You ain't got nothin', people

Thank the man...oh yeah

(FZ, of course, also from You Are What You Is)

[Kaidy Mae]

"Dumb all over....a little ugly on the side..." Hahaha!

Right on StoneMtn, I haven't listened to that in ages.

Once again, I'll let Mr. Tom Robbins explain what my swollen brain is unable to communicate at this juncture of a hideous Monday...

When she was a small girl, Amanda hid a ticking clock in an old, rotten tree trunk. It drove woodpeckers crazy. Ignoring tasty bugs all around them, they just about beat their brains out trying to get at the clock. Years later, Amanda used the woodpecker experiment as a model for understanding capitalism, Communism, Christianity, and all other systems that traffic in future rewards rather than in present realities.

Oh, and just one more...I can't help myself.

Religion is not merely the opium of the masses, it's the cyanide.

Everyone should read this man's wonderfully twisted, erotically insightful words.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

I never get to read enough Tom Robbins (or any fiction, for that matter). I've had a copy of Skinny Legs and All taunting me to read it for months now (sorry, timouse, we will get it back to you some day!).

Just because I'm totally anal (and the nuances are worth drawing out), I have to throw in the rest of that Marx quote:

"Religious distress is at the same time the expression of real distress and the protest against real distress. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless situation, just as it is the spirit of an unspiritual situation. It is the opium of the people."

(from Toward the Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right, 1844)

I think the "sigh of the oppressed creature" is the real hook here. Why do we turn to music? Is it because life can otherwise be really shitty?

[Kaidy Mae]

Skinny Legs and All is my absolute favourite Dr. Evil! Try to find time for it, I swear you will be addicted to Robbins after 72 pages. That's my magic number anyway. It's a hard one for some rigid-minded folks to get into (well, picturing a couple newlyweds driving a turkey down the road as an opener is not the most conventional way to commence a good read...however, Villa Incognito starts with a giant badger parachuting from the animal world into our human realm, using his scrotum as a parachute...yes, Mr. Robbins still has the ability to mind fuck me..."still crazy after all these years"...), but it is one wild ride. I think you will most certainly appreciate it. "Turnaround Norm" is one of my favourite literary characters ever!

Sorry about that tangent. I get excited.

[SaggyBalls]

i think y'all have misunderstood the teachings of the bible...

the sentiment is 'live your life as well as you can, live to help your brother man, and you will reap the reward i share with you up beyond our sky of blue'

it's not 'do what i say in order to be in a place that's better than this cause really - it's shitty around here'

it's a 'do good and you will be rewarded' not 'do good in order to be rewarded'

I think the denouncement of an entire religion is unwise. pray for the misguided sheep. they don't care about their shepherd and will be found by the wolves sooner or later.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

I dunno, Beats. I spent the entire weekend arguing with evangelicals, many of whom wouldn't miss a chance to purge the fold of its liberal-minded ilk, who they regard as the misguided sheep. Is there to be a winner there?

I do like Rabia's line, though (ok, so she's an early medieval Muslim, but whatever):

"O my Lord,

if I worship you from fear of Hell,

burn me in Hell.

If I worship you from hope of Paradise,

exclude me from that place.

But if I worship you for your own sake,

do not withhold from me your eternal beauty."

But I think you're right - denouncing an entire religion doesn't quite make sense to me. Meaning is what we bring at least as much as what is given.

There is some danger of authoritarian trappings that do need to be fought against constantly, though, which is where I get a bit uptight around shepherd metaphors.

[Davey Boy 2.0]

doode- you spent the entire w.e. arguing with evangelicals?!?

it's much easier not answering the door when the J-Witnesses come by

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

Not only did I spend my weekend doing that, but did it with full and acute awareness of what a time was being had at in Simcoe at the Chatham afterparty at the same time... !

Most evangelicals despite Jehovah's Witnesses, btw. At least the latter have stopped bugging me (I was in a sour mood and a bit curt last time they dropped by).

Edited May 30, 2005 by Guest

[bradm]

it's much easier not answering the door when the J-Witnesses come by

A friend of mine in high school was awakened one weekend morning (OK, weekend lunchtime...) by a knock on his apartment door.

He answered the door wearing just his underwear (he was still in bed), to find a pair of JWs. They started in with their spiel, and he interrupted them, saying, "Look, I'd love to hear what you have to say, but I have to get back to my masturbation." He then closed the door and went back to bed.

I guess answering the door with a toad in your hand, giving it a lick while they're talking, and then saying, "Hey, I forgot about this toad. Did you want some?" would also be interesting...

Aloha,

Brad

[Alexis]

spirituality is about enlightenment and evolution of the soul. not the furtherance of political, financial or personal gains.

organized religion these days and for centuries has been clouded by the ego of mankind.

sadly, but honestly, i believe that ego has led to the demise of far too many in the past, present, and will in the future as well. Ego, is the worst drug of all.

i'm alexis, and i'm an egaholic.

#2, to deal with your specific issue, give crow's (justsmkd1's) girlfriend a call. she teaches for the catholic board in oakville (and has for a few years now) and she's not a practicing catholic. I don't think they're as stringent in following the guidelines as they once were. good teachers are apparently hard to come by these days, and good catholic teachers even harder. Keep in mind that once you're in, you've got to put up with the catholic system itself, which doesn't allow as many freedoms as the public board.

[StoneMtn]

Davey Boy Said:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

it's much easier not answering the door when the J-Witnesses come by

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A friend of mine in high school was awakened one weekend morning (OK, weekend lunchtime...) by a knock on his apartment door.

He answered the door wearing just his underwear (he was still in bed), to find a pair of JWs. They started in with their spiel, and he interrupted them, saying, "Look, I'd love to hear what you have to say, but I have to get back to my masturbation." He then closed the door and went back to bed.

That might have worked, but a friend of mine tried a different approach that actually backfired.

Some JWs came by, and Tim politely explained that he was not interested as he was a "Satanist". Well, not only did that not scare them off, but he seemed to become a bit of a project; as his soul clearly was in great need of saving. Each day a different set of JWs came to his door. They tried sending two old ladies, then two young girls, then a man and his son, then a married couple...

Eventually, I think Tim actually got a bit threatening and put an end to it, but it was good comedy for StoneMtn to hear how this progressed each day, and the different groups of missionaries sent by.

[hamilton]

i think y'all have misunderstood the teachings of the bible...

So have an enormous number of Christians.

it's not 'do what i say in order to be in a place that's better than this cause really - it's shitty around here'

Christianity has taught that though, for two thousand years, whether it's what the Bible intended to say or not. And there are some passages in the Bible that do give that impression... maybe not the part about it "being shitty around here" but definitely the part about following orders.