Grateful Dead SBD's removed from Archive

[Booche]

That's not the point.

[ollie]

Sorry for the ranting, but I feel like that we are desperately lacking culture and this sublime mediocrity needs to be yelled at.

And maybe they just like classic rock. Do jazzheads hold more cache with you in this regard? Just curious because it sounds to me like you are saying, "The music I like is more culturally relevant than the music they like."

[Deeps]

Deeps, you really need to stop using drugs.

This on e time I stopped using and then on e minute later I was upset with my meth od of thinking.

[Deeps]

Sorry for the ranting' date=' but I feel like that we are desperately lacking culture and this sublime mediocrity needs to be yelled at.[/quote']

And maybe they just like classic rock. Do jazzheads hold more cache with you in this regard? Just curious because it sounds to me like you are saying, "The music I like is more culturally relevant than the music they like."

No! Jazzheads can go fuck themselves too.

It's the narrow mindedness I'm singleing out here.

My argument is completely genre independant. Those dinks @ 91.1 seem pretty safe and clueless too 'cept Bob Parlocha. He be bringing the variety and pushing some boundaries.

Deeps

PS Zep and Floyd f'ng rule!

[Deeps]

That's good ad placement.

Sorry for the resolution....that Says "sign the Grateful Dead Merchandising Boycott petition"

Edited November 24, 2005 by Guest

[MoMack]

I think the problem Deeps, is that you just don't get it... hate to be judgmental or whatever, but thats what it comes down to.

I'm essentially calling them on lack of community building. Sure I have a vested interest' date=' but it extends to all types of music and art forms in which there are people who prefer to keep their minds on lock down and tune in to Q107 and listen to Dirty Deeds @ 8:00pm every night (test this) while systematicly ignoring, discouraging, and being indifferent to new artists.[/quote']

Maybe they just like classic rock.

Yeah and maybe I like swatch watches and Beaver Canoe sweaters, but there is some degree of a need to evolve. I don't see the purpose exclusively celebrating songs of the past. In fact I think people who do this are bringing the collective down with their uninteresting stories of the best bands they never saw.

Mix 99 calls themselves a variety station. Smelly crap or moderately smelly crap with a side of corporate drivel.

The masses are turning into drones and I'm not going to condrone it @ any level, from the clothes people are buying to the books they're reading. There is a system of apathy and a lot of people are blindly following the cow in front of them directly into the rendering plant. The 1984 and Brave New World prophecies are upon us neatly wrapped and easy to use as seen on TV and I obviously am frustrated and saddened by this shit.

Sorry for the ranting, but I feel like that we are desperately lacking culture and this sublime mediocrity needs to be yelled at.

This board provides me with some hope, but I fear we'll be outnumbered forever.

I'm too young for the "that's how it is" approach.

[hamilton]

Sorry for the ranting' date=' but I feel like that we are desperately lacking culture and this sublime mediocrity needs to be yelled at.[/quote']

And maybe they just like classic rock. Do jazzheads hold more cache with you in this regard? Just curious because it sounds to me like you are saying, "The music I like is more culturally relevant than the music they like."

No! Jazzheads can go fuck themselves too.

It's the narrow mindedness I'm singleing out here.

My argument is completely genre independant. Those dinks @ 91.1 seem pretty safe and clueless too 'cept Bob Parlocha. He be bringing the variety and pushing some boundaries.

Deeps

PS Zep and Floyd f'ng rule!

Maybe you need to be more open-minded, and accept the fact that a lot of people actually enjoy listening to Mix 99.9, or gangsta rap, or soft jazz, or whatever. Not to mention sports, or TV, or dance clubs. Open-mindedness is a two-way street.

[Blane]

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

The masses are turning into drones and I'm not going to condrone it

That is kind of funny .

If you've ever run across the writer Walter Benjamin, he's got a classic (and fairly short) essay called "The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction" (1936 - (text here) ) that you'd probably enjoy. I tried finding a link to my other favourite essay on this, Adorno's "On the Fetish-Character in Music and the Regression of Listening," but it looks like there's a Koons Adorno out there who has that one sewn up .

Anyway, point is that they both argue, in good Western Marxist fashion, that the "use value" of art (music, painting, etc.) has been increasingly substituted by its "exchange value", which simultaneously strips the piece of its uniqueness while satisfying a craving in the consumer for something that doesn't force them to pay attention, that lets them carry on unaffected by anything really different that might challenge their sense of identity (which, as the argument goes, needs to be maintained if people are to keep the whole capitalist enterprise moving forward). That's the "fetish" character he talks about, and like all fetishes, you get into trouble ever challenging it. I'm also pretty sure this is where people's attraction to the note-for-note cover band thing comes from, and why people get so worked up when someone fucks up the lick to such-and-such a tune.

I'll be the first to confess to having a fetish attachment around all sorts of music (I'm a self-diagnosed monomaniac around most things). I listened to bands like Zeppelin as a teenager to death, to the point where I'm pretty much allergic to it now (unless it's other people playing it in their own way). I'm sure the one of the reasons I've remained so fond of the Dead all these years, though, is because in spite of having a relatively finite catalogue (which did grow, of course, albeit by degrees), they knocked themselves out keeping it new and fresh, never doing it quite the same way twice, and, by extension, making me listen rather than just absorb, like I would absorb, I don't know, the three-millionth time I hear "The Immigrant Song" on Q107.

And - getting back to the original point - in shit-hot quality SBDs, to boot!

There's a great moment in Grateful Dawg when Vassar Clemens talks about how unsettled he was playing with Old and in the Way, because of how hard he felt the audience was listening and how discriminating they were about what was being played, unlike in the sorts of venues he was used to playing in where the music was there as a sort of social wallpaper.

There's no accounting for why I love those songs so much (just as there's no accounting for taste generally), but I do always have to be aware when it crowds out my appreciation of music I've never run across before, so thanks for pushing the question. Luckily there is this community of people here who do listen to music that asks us to pay attention, so I can always expect to be pushed in worthwhile directions.

[Esau]

GDLive still has shows up.

http://www.gdlive.com/shn/

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

GDLive still has shows up.

I've been mining this quarry pretty earnestly in the last couple of days....

[Esau]

Heres two anyway, get em while ya can I guess, If someone grabs these would you feel like burning the SHNs for me? I don't have the space and no blanks.

November 1st, 1979

http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=12219

May 15th, 1970

http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=26742

[Booche]

I cant check from work, but if they are in SHN format, I will gladly grab them Esau.

[Esau]

Thanks Booche, currently those are the only two I've come across still up. Both are in SHN also.

[timouse]

GDLive still has shows up.

http://www.gdlive.com/shn/

is there a way of downloading a whole folder at once through http? conversely, can one ftp into gdlive?

[dark_starr]

In addition:

"1977 SBDs will be added back to the archive. However, GD sound engineer/archivist David Lemieux is currently in the process of editing these shows to remove Donna Godchaux's vocals.

Other select shows will be added to the archive, including Boreal Ridge '85, and select 1992, 1994 and 1995 shows. Apple refused to pay for these shows as part of their agreement with GDP."

Before we jump all over the Dead and make it sound like it's all their fault that the soundboards have been taken off the archive, and that they're just a bunch of greedy old farts, consider this: they've had the opportunity all along to stem the tide of soundboards being made available to the trading community, and have always chosen to do nothing about it, save for the shows that they've released as Dick's Picks, etc. Now all of a sudden EVERYTHING is pulled. I also find it strange that they don't say why Donna's vocals are being removed, and why apparently just for the '77 shows. This has Apple's, and not the Dead's, greed written all over it; the second paragraph in the quote above leads me to believe that they've licenced the contents of the vault for purposes of distribution. Perhaps Donna isn't (or doesn't want to be) part of that agreement. Maybe Apple just thinks that her singing sucks, and that they'd sell more downloads if she wasn't in the mix. Regardless, I could see this progressing outside of 1977, to the point where Donna no longer appears on ANY show, regardless of year. And when the '77 shows return to the archive, will they be just as they were (and as they should be), or will they be the new (improved?) versions? I'm guessing the latter. If he hadn't been cremeated, Jerry would surely be turning in his grave right now.

That said, think about this: in order to remove Donna's vocals, Lemieux won't be able to use the multi-generation 2-track sources that made up the bulk of the soundboards on the archive; he'll have to remix from the multitrack masters that are in the vault. So while they'll be Donna-less, the sound and mix should otherwise be phenominal... which would sort of be like having a REALLY great piece of cheesecake, but without the cheese.

Gee, I wonder what Apple will do with DSO? Does this mean that Donna's parts can't be sung during their shows anymore?

Seriously though, will they keep folks from taping at the DSO shows, since technically what DSO would now be doing is reproducing a property of Apple? Just makes me wonder how far Apple could take this...

[Blane]

Man, that was a joke from another website. They're not taking donna's vocals off the '77 shows. It not even technologically possible since they were recorded to 2-track.

[dark_starr]

And I'd keep at it if I were you, Dr. Evil. If Apple finds out that a bunch of Dead shows that they've bought the distribution rights to are still available for downloading therough the band's own site, well, you can just about smell what would be hitting the fan. Mark my words, they won't be there for long.

[timouse]

so this thread got me thinking about actually getting all the shows i've seen. i went to the archive today and foud four or five that i saw but don't yet have. when i checked them out, they were listed as audience recordings, but were only available in streaming format.

is all of the archive dead collection streaming only? every show that i looked at seemed to be.

sigh...

[Esau]

is all of the archive dead collection streaming only? every show that i looked at seemed to be.

Reading the LMA forums, heres the message from the admin at archive.

The Internet Archive has worked with tapers, tape

traders, funders, admins, and over 1000 bands

to build a great non-commercial music library that is freely accessible.

Technically and policy-wise, it has been invigorating as you can probably appreciate.

We have made changes in the past and we will make changes again.

Following the policies of the Grateful Dead and the Dead communities

we have provided non-commercial access to thousands of great concerts.

Based on discussions with many involved, the Internet Archive has been asked

to change how the Grateful Dead concert recordings are being distributed

on the Archive site for the time being. The full collection will remain safe

in the Archive for preservation purposes.

Here is the plan:

Audience recordings are available in streaming format (m3u).

Soundboard recordings are not available.

Additionally, the Grateful Dead recordings will be separated from the

Live Music Archive into its own collection. The metadata and reviews for

all shows and recordings will remain available.

We appreciate that this change will be a surprise and upset many of you, but please

channel reactions in ways that you genuinely think will be productive.

If we keep the bigger picture in mind that there are many experiments

going on right now, and experiments working well, we can build on the momentum

that tape trading started decades ago.

Working together we can keep non-commercial sharing part of our world.

Thank you for helping find balances that work for all involved.

-brewster

Digital Librarian and Founder

-Matt Vernon

Volunteer GD Archivist

http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=47634

[The Chameleon]

In addition:

"1977 SBDs will be added back to the archive. However, GD sound engineer/archivist David Lemieux is currently in the process of editing these shows to remove Donna Godchaux's vocals.

[color:red]If they remove her vocals, I think someones smokin' crack in the vault!

ARE YOU FUCKIN" SERIOUS! I refuse to beleive this! This is absolute lunacy!

Look everyone has had those Donna moments when she ,wails all over a good jam and kills it. But we've also all had those amazing Donna moments where she owns a tune like; "You ain't Woman Egnough", in a way the band without her couldn't.

For better or for worse that is what happened.

You can't rewrite history. She's part of the Grateful Dead's most reverred era and always will be.

The Dead has always beena warts and all project from the very begining. I've seen them rise to great heights musically one tune and come crashing to the ground another. That's what's so unique about them, thier willingness to take risks and willingness to fail.

[color:red]Donna forever!

[timouse]

Reading the LMA forums' date=' heres the message from the admin at archive.

http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=47634

[/quote']

thanks greg. d'oh! missed that earlier in the thread. i guess i was still trying to get my mind around the "all soundboards have been removed" line

and speaking of missing things, i'm pretty sure that the donna thing is a gag.

of course, i can think of a half dozen "playing in the band" donna wails that would not be missed...

[Booche]

Let's get a little perspective here.

No audience tapes on the archive?

The Greedful Dead

fuckthatshit and dont get me started...........

[guigsy]

no no no, fuck THAT shit.... get started!! c'mon now.....

[Esau]

I grabbed this from another site & no link was provided, but heres what David Gans had to say about the whole archive situation.

November 23, 2005

Grateful Dead on archive.org

Yesterday the Grateful Dead's archive was removed from public access at archive.org. From the announcement:

...the Internet Archive has been asked to change how the Grateful Dead concert recordings are being distributed on the Archive site for the time being. The full collection will remain safe in the Archive for preservation purposes. Here is the plan:

Audience recordings are available in streaming format (m3u).

Soundboard recordings are not available.

The howling has begun, and the sense of entitlement that has always concerned me is in full flower.

Many are quoting the famous Jerry Garcia statement, "Once we're done with it, you can have it," or words to that effect.

I think we need to get a little perspective here.

First of all, when Jerry said that - and he said it more than once, so we know he meant it - tape trading was an important aspect of life in the Deadhead community. It was a one-to-one affair, for the most part, and although there were some social pathologies in evidence, it was largely a manifestation of our love for the music and our desire to enlighten the world and turn our friends on.

That is a far cry from what is happening now. The internet Archive and all the other online distribution sources are high-speed, mass-distribution systems that make the best quality recording available to all who know where to look for them. That is a good thing, of course, culturally - but there is an economic element to this that must be taken into account.

I've read a ton of angry posts in the last 24 hours, from people who are convinced the greedy Grateful Dead are doing this to preserve their champagne-and-Porsche lifestyles. "I've given them thousands of dollars over the years, for tickets and CDs and t-shirts," I read. "How dare they take away my instant access to all their music just so they can make money off it?"

A couple of weeks ago there was another round of layoffs at GDP. A few more people - friends and fellow Deadheads - lost their jobs because GDP isn't making enough money to keep them on board. I heard that one of the casualties of this last downsiziing was Ram Rod, who was a member of the GD road crew from the beginning. I really don't think anyone took lightly the decision to let that brother go.

"They are doing this in order to protect their download business," is another cry I've heard. Well, yeah, and in what universe is that an unreasonable position?

I don't really have a dog in this fight. I have a job on the periphery of the Grateful Dead organization, but I am not privy to their decision-making process and I don't depend on them for my income. I help to promote their official releases by playing them on the radio, obviously, but I also play a lot of unreleased music (and I've gotten some of that unreleased music from archive.org).

I have sympathies on both sides of this issue, but I am also detached enough from it to have a perspective that I hope you'll at least consider.

There's a petition online directed at GDM and promising a boycott. "Now it appears doing the right thing for the fans, has given way to greed."

I think it is worthwhile to ask ourselves if there isn't some greed on the other side of the equation.

David Gans