Grateful Dead SBD's removed from Archive

[MarcO]

and now Bear has chimed in, from the ratdog board:

Best thing they have done in years, in my opinion. I was never in favour of allowing the bootlegging of shows by audience members. The original idea for audience taping- about which I was not consulted- was to allow a certain group of audience members to record at shows with microphones. NO real soundboard tapes should have ever been let out, but then, only the ones that

Healy gave connections out for, and of course those that Latvala, an unrepentant sneak-thief, gave away are real, many are fakes. I have NEVER allowed anyone to copy my sonic journal tapes, which were made and kept as a personal diary of my work.

The music belongs to the musicians who wrote and perfomed it. It is not public property and the continued survival of all of us who particpated in bringing it to the world should be respected by all who love it. Buy the albums we make from our archives and know that you are helping pay our rent and keep food on the table.

I have nothing but contempt for those who claim they were 'robbed' by the band's decision on this.

http://www.thebear.org/

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

That's an unfortunate comment. If it's all about the musicians, then where does he get off, any more than Koons, himself staking out what kinds of value (use, exchange, etc.) should be attributed to the music?

I'm starting to get this "Time Machine" image in my head, where the fragments of the Dead evolve into two perfectly dual camps - Phil et al. living idyllically yet under continual threat among the trees and meadows, and the others, well....

[Rossolee]

Looks like the GD boards(streaming) are back up on the Archive.

[MarcO]

oh, I find this story fascinating. It is amazing the level of opinion that has popped up all over the place, including the international mainstream media. I think it's good, a testament to the power and influence of the Grateful Dead and their place in our modern culture.

I was lead in the direction of David Gans' blog which was far more fascinating then I could have imagined. Of particular note, which I will bring forward here, are Steve Marcus' insights into the employee structure of the Dead organization. Marcus, for those who don't know, was the man who ran the Dead's in-house ticketing operation from it's inception in 1983, possibly until this day when they do tour, I dunno about that htough. Check it out:

I am just happy for all that I have received in the past and for the over 100 times that I was allowed to plug into the board.

The facts are fairly simple. When the Dick's Pick's series was started each one sold about 25,000 units, but in the last few years that has dropped to 10,000 or less (which is why the Fillmore boxed set was limited to 10,000. Hind sight is most likely now telling GDP that they could have easily sold 25,000.)

Offering a new Dead Download every month is NOT going to make any one rich, and the fact is that because of the way that the band ran their business none of them are rich in the true sense of the word. Some of them put away their money and invested, but I would be very surprised if any them are worth more than $15,000,000.

This band was overly generous in the wages they paid their employees. At the peak I was paid a base of $62,500.00 (which was at the time about $20,000-$40,000 more per year than all other box office managers for all the major stadiums and arenas in the country and a hell of a lot more than any other ticket sales manager for any other band) on top of that base you can add four bonuses per year; one for each tour (Spring, Summer, Fall at approximately $5,000 per tour) and a Christmas bonus of around $10,000 although I believe it was $20,000 in 1988.

One top of that add in the 15% of the TOTAL amount earned that GDP contributed into a profit sharing plan and COMPLETE Dental and Medical coverage plus four week vacations (not including the two to four weeks GDP was closed after New Years.) The free tickets for almost every show for almost every employee. Hell the women that were basically receiptionists were getting over $45,000 per year plus all the above. In the real world they would have been lucky to get $30,000 total per year!

A few months after Vince was brought into the band he finally asked how much he was getting. He was told $1,000 per day. His response was so we play 80 shows per year, that good. He was corrected and told that it was for 365 days plus tour and Christmas bonuses. He was paid exactly the same as Garcia and everyone else. Do you think Ron Wood was paid the same as Mick or Keith? Not a chance. Do you think Darryl Jones is getting paid the same as Bill Wyman was getting even after 15 years in the band? Not even close.

My point is that this band could have cut everyone's pay almost in half and we would still have been well paid, but their basic attitude was share the wealth.

In a period of one year I went from sitting outside Frost because I couldn't get a ticket (1982) to NEVER having to worry about getting a ticket for ANY show AND being paid for it. I am thankful for all of that.

My point is that all of us have benefited from this bands generousity if only from the years of allowing us to tape shows and share them. Even as an employee I bought EVERY single music or video release.

And when I have the money I still do.

I have hundreds and hundreds of hours of incredible music that I can listen to some of it high quality board source and some of it high quality audience source. Everytime I listen to one of those tapes I thank the Grateful Dead for letting me relive incredible times, and if they choose to take all the free stuff off line it is their choice. I can still trade what I have.

Shit, it's 2 am and I am rambling...

-----

I left off the "per diem" when on the road which was $45-$60 per day for expenses, but the Grateful Dead traveled with a four star chef from a major resteraunt AND a Vegan chef, plus we could order food "bags" with custom made meals for the days off. 30 days on the road at $45 per day = $1,350 of which I would usually spend less than $300.

And another point about sharing the wealth. When David Bowie was paid $1,500,000 to play the 1983 US Festival he paid each member of his band union MINIMUM! Which I believe was $350 each!! Stevie Ray Vaughn was supposed to be on that tour until he found out what Bowie was planning on paying him.

--------

... in 1987 when they started making $50,000,000 per year in ticket sales [...] their song lyric writers were living off royalties from record, tape and CD sales which was and is very little. At that point the Grateful Dead voted to pay Hunter and Barlow annual salaries, plus the royalties.

Also I wanted to make it clear that my above posts are relating only to the Grateful Dead with Jerry, not The Other Ones or The Dead who I am very sure aren't paying every player the same, and that that policy ended with Jerry.

[AD]

Holy fuck!

That's a good read, fascinating.

AD

[dave-O]

By far the most interesting piece of info to come out of this story yet. Thanks MarcO.

[peipunk]

Indeed!

[Davey Boy 2.0]

cheers

(I'm a little choked up over here)

Edited December 6, 2005 by Guest
3.14159265358979323846

[AdamH]

Thank you. That was fascinating.

[MarcO]

It is pretty illuminating isn't it? No wonder Garcia felt so much pressure to keep touring!

I like this one, from a contribution to Gans' site:

Pop (Music) Quiz:

What is odd about this picture?

1) Become pioneering musical ensemble that develops wildly popular genre of music and associated life style.

2) Put drug addicts in charge of your huge stash of insanely marketable music archives.

3) Turn a blind eye (for two decades) while your archives are given away, ransacked, sold and traded for "favors" by your very own employees. Simultaneously allow your potential customers to freely record and trade the music they consistently beg you to sell to them.

4) Wait to start selling your archives until your maximum sales potential starts to decline (and, despite numerous requests from your customers, fail to provide accurate information regarding the products being sold and refuse to make available the specific music they request to purchase).

5) Endlessly bicker amongst yourselves...in public.

6) Get non-profit organization that gracefully provides much-loved service (of disseminating music you already let slip through your hands) to withdraw this service after they have been doing this for years.

[Hux]

haha....interesting how when more FACTS come out, from people who were there, how the picture changes a little bit eh guys?

I stand behind my posts, some of you should read back to the beginning of this thread at some of the nasty reactionary drivel that was posted.

"Greedful Dead"

Some salt with that crow?

[Booche]

"Greedful Dead"

So, you dont think it was greedy that they had the audience tapes removed and what picture is changing?

You are delusional.

[MoMack]

Doesn't change anything.

Way I read that statement is just the way that article boogieknight posted reads:

Wonderful social consciousness hippy experiment. Desperate cash grab. The end of the Grateful Dead.

albeit this really may just confirm what we already knew. Aug/95 - the music died.

The fact that they were extremely generous, which no one ever doubted, does not mean that they aren't killing all that is (was?) the grateful dead now by pulling the boards...

but really - who gives a flying fuck in the end.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

Y'ask me, it was Deer Creek '95 that proved to me decisively that it was over; this is just about pulling more treasures out of the rubble.

Just listened to a very, very touching I Will Take You Home which reminded me of how much the Dead has had this perpetual legacy of things dying on them.