Smoking fight moves to apartments

[SevenSeasJim]

This will be interesting to watch.

Smoking fight moves to apartments

Mar 28, 2007 04:30 AM

Isabel Teotonio

Staff Reporter

When chain smokers moved into the unit below Pamela Schuller's, she got a lot more than a couple of new neighbours.

Despite asking them to open their windows, the smell of smoke found its way into her apartment – and into the very fabric of her children's clothing.

"I would come home from work, into my own personal environment and I couldn't breathe the air," recalled Schuller, a resident of the Bain Co-Op in Riverdale, who helped set up a residents' group that is pushing for a smoke-free policy in some units.

"(Smokers) say it's their human right to smoke, but we have the right to clean air," said Schuller, who isn't alone in her complaints.

According to a study released yesterday, neighbours' smoke penetrates almost half of all Ontario apartments.

The study by Ipsos Reid, the first to gather data on how people in multi-unit dwellings feel about second-hand smoke, was commissioned by the Ontario Tobacco-free Network (OTN), a coalition of the Canadian Cancer Society, the Heart and Stroke Foundation and The Lung Association.

The survey of more than 1,800 Ontario residents, conducted in March and November 2006, found 46 per cent have had tobacco smoke seep into their unit in the past year; 64 per cent would likely choose a smoke-free building and 57 per cent would support a smoking ban in their own building.

As an increasing number of tenants complain of second-hand smoke, a new frontier is emerging in anti-smoking policies: the very sanctity of one's private home. The battle is being waged by tenants, landlords and health groups that recognize the dangers of second-hand smoke, particularly for children, the elderly and those with respiratory diseases.

Yesterday, Ontario Health Minister George Smitherman said the time has come to debate the issue, although he said he would rather see market forces drive landlords to declare their buildings smoke-free.

"We've got to look at it from a regulatory standpoint," he said. "We sure will do that. There will be a good discussion. But there is a lot of power in the hands of the people."

Irene Gallagher of the tobacco-free coalition said it's important landlords know they have the right to ban smoking inside units and respond to market demand in a province where just 16 per cent, or 1.6 million Ontarians, smoke. Advocates say smokers aren't protected under human rights laws and there is no legal right to smoke, so landlords can refuse to rent or sell to smokers.

But critics argue refusing accommodation to smokers is discriminatory and say banning a legal behaviour in people's homes is an infringement on their rights.

"It's prohibition through the back door and it's pitting neighbour against neighbour," said Nancy Daigneault, president of mychoice.ca, Canada's largest smokers' rights group.

Toronto Public Health routinely receives complaints from tenants about second-hand smoke, but there are no plans to get people to butt out in their homes, said spokesman Rob Colvin.

Under the Smoke-Free Ontario Act, all common areas in residential buildings must be smoke-free, including hallways, stairwells and laundry areas. Premier Dalton McGuinty and Progressive Leader John Tory said yesterday there are no plans to ban smoking in apartments. Nowhere in the United States or Canada is it illegal to smoke in your home.

Legal opinion remains divided on whether landlords can impose smoking bans inside apartments, said Colvin, who tells inquiring property owners to contact a lawyer.

Although smoke-free policies in large private dwellings have yet to be initiated here, one of the biggest landlords in Western Canada, Globe General Agencies, garnered headlines and waiting lists after it introduced a smoke-free policy last fall.

The company has banned smoking in its Manitoba and Alberta buildings and is currently implementing the ban in Saskatchewan. The firm aims to introduce the ban in Quebec within a year.

The trend is growing south of the border, particularly in Michigan, where more than 6,000 apartments have gone smoke-free since 2005. Not only are privately owned buildings becoming smoke-free, but 13 public housing commissions have adopted similar policies. Landlords cite benefits such as paying less insurance, fewer maintenance costs, less tenant turnover, fewer complaints and lower risk of fire.

Overall, landlords say the transition has been smooth, largely because it is a voluntary effort.

In Michigan, there have been no problems with compliance and no evictions, said Jim Bergman of the Smoke-Free Environments Law Project in Michigan.

The policy is typically phased in.

Tom Tourville, owner of two apartment complexes Marquette, Mich., did not dream a decade ago of moving toward a smoke-free policy because it would have been "financial suicide."

But the pendulum has swung and the change is welcomed by Roy Struble, who manages a building run by the Marysville Housing Commission, which on Sunday adopts a smoke-free policy for all new residents and forces existing smokers to butt out by Oct. 1, 2008.

"I don't think smokers have any rights when it comes to bothering other people," said Struble, who often fields complaints about second-hand smoke.

[ollie]

It's called communal living. Deal with it. Buy a house if it bothers you so much.

[captainsunshine]

[AD]

i'd rent or buy in a smoke-free building if given the choice. don't want to see it legislated though, that's a slippery slope.

i quit smoking in august, and now i'm so sensitive to smoke i can smell in my apartment when the person down and across the hall is smoking, through two thick doors and who knows what else. i can see where these people with babies and young children are coming from.

[phishtaper]

there's an article in the globe today about a woman who was kicked off a bus in calgary for having on waaaaaay too much perfume. she'd been warned several times and had been kicked off before. the funny thing is that she compared herself to rosa parks.

private odours that become public are difficult issues to deal with, but really, whats the difference between smoke/perfume and noise? people generally accept social limits to noise.

[Booche]

Not everyone can afford to buy a house Ollie. That's such an obnoxious thing to say.

[SevenSeasJim]

And besides my Rights are more important than yours!!

[AD]

Not everyone can afford to buy a house Ollie. That's such an obnoxious thing to say.

Cancer is free!!

[ollie]

Not everyone can afford to buy a house Ollie. That's such an obnoxious thing to say.

Rent.

[timouse]

i'd rent or buy in a smoke-free building if given the choice. don't want to see it legislated though, that's a slippery slope.

i quit smoking in august, and now i'm so sensitive to smoke i can smell in my apartment when the person down and across the hall is smoking, through two thick doors and who knows what else. i can see where these people with babies and young children are coming from.

i quit last june, and i hear you about being aware of people smoking. i agree that this shouldn't be legislated...but i also thought that smoking in bars should not have been legislated either.

i would have no problem with landlords marketing buildings as smoke free, but i would have a problem with smokers being denied housing....slippery slope indeed....

[edger]

This is a tough one... and definitely an equity issue. The market can't fix everything (well it can for some I guess)...

What about pot smoke?

[timouse]

This is a tough one... and definitely an equity issue. The market can't fix everything (well it can for some I guess)...

What about pot smoke?

yes please.

[Jared]

I'd agree, if you dont like it, then move where your house isn't connected.

i got a house, i worry more about smoking out side in my yard now, when my neighbours are out side, cause i wouldnt want to ruin there nice bbq dinner out side with my smoke, more then i'd rather just smoke in my house.

I agree its very close to noise and other things that are just part of living in a city. I got to bed very late, around 5 or 6 am. when i am getting into bed i can always hear my neighbours running up and down there stairs, and especially opening and closing kitchen cupboards, and chopping stuff. i just accepted it as life.

a few times they came over really late like 3, 4 am to ask me to turn down my tv cause they were trying to sleep, i told them to fuck off, if its too loud to call the cops,

if its not noise or smoke its just going to be something else, like garbage cans smelling to much or litter on your lawn.

people just like to fight

[dancingbear]

It's called communal living. Deal with it. Buy a house if it bothers you so much.

wow. thats kind and considerate. as someone who deals with babies and children everyday who are subjected without any consent to second hand smoke and its negative side effects i feel rather strongly on this issue. the smokers should 'deal with it' as they have a choice. ie. they can smoke outside. but, a family cant live 'outside'.

banning smoking from an environment IS not a slippery slope at all. things should be legal if you dont hurt another by doing it. if you do hurt someone then it should not be allowed. ie. smoking in your own stand alone home, with no one else there...fine.

second hand smoke increases a babies risk for sudden infant death, ear infections, lung infections, reactive airway (asthma) exacerbations, and hospitalization rates. why should a CHILD have to deal with it?

[edger]

Hard to argue with that dancingbear!

[ollie]

Newsflash: WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!

Seriously, are there any studies out there about the effects of second hand smoke in apartment buildings or are you just extrapolating based on second hand smoke in general?

If it's a legit problem then I'd rather take a look at the building's ventilation system before passing legislation. Seems this story is just instilling a new fear in people - second hand smoke in apartment buildings.

There's not even a story here, it's a report on an OPINION poll conducted by an anti-smoking group. I'd like more science first.

[Freak By Night]

Won't somebody please think of the children?

Actually it's easy to argue with that.

It IS a slippery slope, because once you put in legislation against smoking, a whole consortium of people are going to come forward demanding that other things get outlawed in apartment buildings: frying bacon, perfume and cologne, and farting, just to name a few.

[AD]

you can take my life, but you'll never take... my methane!!!

[Davey Boy 2.0]

Who wants to join my Consortium Unified for Not Talking about Your Body Odors, Lest Landlords Outlaw Cologne, Kef and Smoking?

[bradm]

Who wants to join my Consortium Unified for Not Talking about Your Body Odors, Lest Landlords Outlaw Cologne, Kef and Smoking?

Do you serve celery at the meetings? You know, those little short pieces of it, with that cheesy filling.

Aloha,

Brad

[Freak By Night]

Count me in!

[AD]

daveyboy that's gold. please make a t-shirt - heck maybe it's even a funny acronym...

[dancingbear]

ollie,

i hear what your saying about proof. however as having lived in an apartment, i do not find it a big extrapolation to see how smoke from one apartment can make its way into another.

i still dont think the slope is very slippery. true if someone is frying bacon one might argure it affects their mental health, or their sleep etc, but smelling bacon to the majority will not harm someones health. as for noise, thats why most cities do have noise by-laws. i find it completely different when we are taling about a known carcinogen that could have direct, real, proven impacts on the health of a child.

1: Tob Control. 2003 Jun;12(2):189-9

preferences and practices among renters regarding smoking restrictions in apartment buildings.Hennrikus D, Pentel PR, Sandell SD.

Division of Epidemiology, School of Public Health, University of Minnesota, Minneapolis 55454, USA. hennrikus@epi.umn.edu

OBJECTIVE: This study assessed renters' preferences for official smoking policies in their buildings and their practices concerning restricting tobacco smoking in their apartments. DESIGN: Renters (n = 301) living in large apartment complexes in a suburb of Minneapolis, Minnesota, completed a mail survey. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: The survey asked about the official smoking policies in place in their apartment buildings, their preferences for policies, whether they had smelled tobacco smoke coming into their apartments from without, and, if so, what they had done about it. RESULTS: The majority of non-smokers (79%) preferred that their building be smoke-free. When asked to identify the current smoking policy in their buildings, residents disagreed substantially. Most renters (60%) reported smoke-free policies in their own apartments and another significant proportion (23%) restricted smoking to certain areas or occasions or persons. 75% thought that enforcing a smoke-free policy for guests would not be difficult. [color:red]53% of those in non-smoking households had smelled tobacco smoke in their apartments; most of these reported being bothered by it. However, very few complained to the building owner or manager (15.5%) or to the smoker (6.9%). CONCLUSIONS: The majority of non-smokers preferred that their buildings be smoke-free. A failure to report problems to apartment managers might be an impediment to instituting smoke-free policies in apartment buildings. The considerable disagreement among residents within apartment complexes about the current official smoking policy in their buildings suggests that policies are lacking or are not well communicated.

PMID: 12773730 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Edited March 28, 2007 by Guest

[MarcO]

we've had to deal with this problem and it is very frustrating to sit and watch tv and smell someone's else's ciggy smoke creeping into your environment, especially when you've been living happily in that place for five years.

[ollie]

i hear what your saying about proof. however as having lived in an apartment, i do not find it a big extrapolation to see how smoke from one apartment can make its way into another.

Well, yeah, I live in an apartment building too and when I walk through the lobby I can smell tobacco if it's being smoked, pot too. But just because I can smell it doesn't necessarily lead me to the conclusion that there are enough smoke particles in my apartment over a long enough period of time to do me any harm. So just how much of a risk is second hand smoke in an apartment building? We should not be passing legistlation based on fear, IMO.

Banning smoking in apartment buildings would be another step down the slippery slope we are already on to more government intervention in our private lives. I just think all options need to be explored before asking the government to take away more of our rights.