Birdy Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 The polls mean very little given most of the people interviewed and asked questions didn't have a clear picture of anything with the workings of governments, coalitions, parliamentary procedures, etc..[cough]MOST CANADIANS!{/cough]He's a dick, but I'm not going to elevate any of the others above him.I'm still sticking to the middle finger to all photo.I don't care how most of y'all think it's a slimy move... it was definitely a move, one that came from a mile away, walked up and silly slapped all three opposition parties, and struck a chord with their only true motivation... self-preservation...Amen!and...Also... I'd love to have a Liberal government... ...but first I'd love to live in a country that can afford them. Or have those 5 other Earths to meet out demand for resources shown up in our orbit recently?Amen!**Sorry, had to remove the NDP out of there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
can-o-phish Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 Here's a thought...Create a reality TV show of "Why I Should Be PM"...Because the leaders we have now would've been voted off the island many episodes ago!!! Well, all of them except Harper because he stole the "immunity idol"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_rawk Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 Create a reality TV show of "Why I Should Be PM"...http://www.cbc.ca/nextprimeminister/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdy Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 Well, all of them except Harper because he stole the "immunity idol"... HAhahahaha! Perseverance my friend!! hahaha... that's funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
can-o-phish Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 Ask and you shall receive... :content: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgnor Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 The polls mean very little given most of the people interviewed and asked questions didn't have a clear picture of anything with the workings of governments, coalitions, parliamentary procedures, etc..[cough]MOST CANADIANS!{/cough]have no idea what the fuck is going on. The poll is as representative as it's going to get... people do not get the fact that they cannot just ignore all this and "go back to work, like we elected you too." "Most Canadians" don't think that anyone even voted for the other parties... by most Canadians I mean the ones who stand around saying "If you... then you aren't Canadian!" Never heard Layton say something like that. But the rallying cry of a Conservative caucus is "O, Canada!" while St.Thomas goes out of business? Canadians are now going to re-elect the same assholes that made this a national unity debate instead of what it was... cowards and criminals, liars and theives."Most Canadians" think this whole thing was "unconstitutional"."Most Canadians" think this was a coup attempt."Most Canadians" react to a political crisis by saying "they're all a bunch of goofs anyways" and have no idea why this shit is important."Most Canadians" have been duped into thinking that a seperatist Canadian isn't a Canadian and therefore should be silenced... democratic to the core we are. Just because Stevie is the most devious doesn't mean he's good at his job, it means it looks like it to you, because it's you he's most concerned with controlling, so just do what he says and everything will be fine...I applaud the blind faith that some still have in Harper and his party, it's good to see that lemmings havn't led themselves to extinction yet.And for those who fear a "left-wing agenda where we will all have to wear the same uniform and march to the same tune", I say, "If you smoke pot, see you in jail, criminal."I'm reminded of the old Radiohead song... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgnor Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 (edited) Wow, great look for Canada. We look awesome right now.Nevertheless, the prime minister is damaged. Some pundits have suggested that the Conservative government will survive only if Mr Harper steps down. A control freak who does not allow ministers to speak publicly without his approval, he can hardly blame others for his misfortune. Although there is no open revolt in Conservative ranks, several ministers pointedly failed to applaud the prime minister in the House of Commons this week.http://www.economist.com/world/americas/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12725018(PS. They call it a coup too... grrrr...) Edited December 5, 2008 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdy Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 "Most Canadians" have been duped into thinking that a seperatist Canadian isn't a Canadian and therefore should be silenced... democratic to the core we are.Well, I don't believe they should be 'silenced' at all. I just don't think they should be given veto rights over national policy. That's a pretty heavy concession to be given to a party who outwardly admits that they're primo concern is making sure Quebec gets what Quebec wants. And to be given veto power over national policy when no Canadian can vote for them except those who live in Quebec, seems to be a very tipped scale in favour of the Bloc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgnor Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 (edited) I think we're actually buying Seperatist propaganda if we think that "a promise to support a coalition government on matters of confidence" is a win for Seperatism. It actually means that the Bloc is subject to the goodwill of the coalition, and that they must support the coalition where the conservatives threaten to bring it down. It actually puts the Bloc at the mercy of the CPC in parliament. When the CPC votes against the Coalition, the Bloc's hands are tied... some win for seccession.We don't get to vote for anyone outside of our own ridings, we are at the mercy of those we elect to make good choices on our behalf. Edited December 5, 2008 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdy Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 The promise to support a coalition isn't a win for separatism, it's a win for Quebec. It puts their agenda - wants and needs above the agendas of all of the other provinces. The coalition, dependant on the Blocs support will form policy with the knowledge that they have to cater to Quebec to get it passed. If anything will further alienate the West who already feels alienated for so many reasons, this is it. We have the option to vote for parties that are represented across Canada, we do not have the option to vote for the Bloc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AD Posted December 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 On the vast vast majority of issues Quebecers have the same wants and needs as most Canadians. They want a healthy economy, they want good health care, they want funding for roads, tourism, employment, safety, etc etc... Why aren't you recognizing that? Do you think the BQ is going to push for a motion recognizing independence or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgnor Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 (edited) I don't have the option of voting for the guy who's running against Harper directly either or his other backbenchers who quietly support Western seperatism.You conveniently forget that "The Alliance" is one of the largest members of this CPC "alliance". And after Steve has shown how devious he is, you expect other people to buy that he means well for the country... I call shenanigans. Edited December 5, 2008 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
can-o-phish Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 If there is ONE person who has strengthened the will to separate Quebec from Canada it is "the most honourable Stephen Harper". Period.It is not their "only goal", to separate from Canada. They want what's best for their province, in their eyes. Can you blame them for that? If so, blame Alberta as well as there has been talk, though lightly, of separating...Separatism has been at an all-time low though now the BQ has a hate on for the government and Harper and his Conservatives like never before.Thanks for that Stevie...he is nothing more than a coward. He should have stepped down and let someone from his party who actually believes in Canada first, agendas second, but then again, try and find a politician in any party who fits that mold...it's going to be a tough search.In my opinion, Dion's blunder was the lack of preparation on his part for the election. After becoming leader of the Liberals who were crumbling from the Sponsorship Scandal and now the opposition of a minority government, he should have hit the ground on the campaign trail because it was coming, one year, two years, whatever amount of time, it was coming...he had to actually roll up his sleeves and meet the people of Canada and for once listen to them, try to get an understanding of the common people and their concerns, rebuild faith and bridge the gap that had been destroyed by the previous Liberals...instead he waited until an election was called and by then it was too late...I'm quite sure his knowledge of the English language is strong though as we all saw on his "Youtube" video, his command of it is weak at best. Another skill he should have been honing if he wanted to be Prime Minister of Canada, which even though has a beautiful and eclectic group of backgrounds, is still English. And if that meant working 365 a year, so be it. If you're going to be the leader of our country, that is how strongly you should be committed; not showing up when Parliament is in session...Harper was succesfful in creating panic and mistrust of the coalition by repeatedly calling them "The Separatist Coalition" as if their only collective goal was that they were going to destroy Canada.And now Parliament is "closed for business" as the economy is sinking every day, factories are closing, countless people are being laid off all because he ran and hid behind legislation until January 26. Does he not realize that a vote of non-confidence can be called without a coalition? It just means that there won't be a coalition; there will be an election. Does he think that his party will keep him as their leader if they lose a vote of non-confidence in Janauary and are toppled?These parties need new leaders, new blood, new agendas other than their own.Canada needs a new government and who knows, maybe a coaltion could have given insight and fresh ideas...sure, there would have been major hurdles but if there is never change, then we will forever be in the clutches of an archaic and broken system...Merry Fuggin Christmas Mr Harper, Mr Dion, Mr Layton and Mr Duceppe!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_rawk Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 believes in Canada first, agendas second, but then again, try and find a politician in any party who fits that mold I actually think that both Dion and Layton fit that mold, FWIW. In my opinion, Dion's blunder was the lack of preparation on his part for the election. After becoming leader of the Liberals who were crumbling from the Sponsorship Scandal and now the opposition of a minority government, he should have hit the ground on the campaign trail because it was coming, one year, two years, whatever amount of time, it was coming...he had to actually roll up his sleeves and meet the people of Canada and for once listen to them, try to get an understanding of the common people and their concerns, rebuild faith and bridge the gap that had been destroyed by the previous Liberals...instead he waited until an election was called and by then it was too late...I'm quite sure his knowledge of the English language is strong though as we all saw on his "Youtube" video, his command of it is weak at best. Another skill he should have been honing if he wanted to be Prime Minister of Canada, which even though has a beautiful and eclectic group of backgrounds, is still English. And if that meant working 365 a year, so be it. If you're going to be the leader of our country, that is how strongly you should be committed; not showing up when Parliament is in session... Dion's blunder was being born Charlie Brown. But seriously, I don't think anyone could have recovered the Liberals at that point, even if Trudeau rose from the dead to take the helm. The anger at the Liberals hadn't sufficiently subsided. I think we are getting close. And I do think that the leadership having fallen into Dion's lap, when it did, was one of the best things that could have happened towards a re-invigorated Party, even if the Liberals don't see that yet. For several reasons, but one of them being that it kept them out of power. Time will tell. Merry Fuggin Christmas Mr Harper, Mr Dion, Mr Layton and Mr Duceppe!!! Indeed! (The above is not meant as argumentative, necessarily, but more as a place to put my thoughts as I procrastinate heavily from what I really should be doing ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
can-o-phish Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 I really have appreciated everyone's views, opinions and being so honest to putting them out there. Personally I have gained a greater appreciation for our system through all of this and the vast amount of media that I've been pouring over, instead of being focussed on work I think the main thing most of us share on this thread is our frustration with how our country is being governed, or actually at this moment, un-governed. It does give me faith that there are intelligent people who live in Canada... Maybe what some of these politicians need is a little bit of "jam" in their neat & tidy lives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
can-o-phish Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 Possibly my last post of the day before I fall wayyyy behind at work...One comment made by a media reporter is one that has stayed with me...Not verbatim but essentially he said that quite possibly gone are the days that Canada has a majority government from any party so we had better start looking at ways for minority governments to function effectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AD Posted December 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 Was the reporter's name 'Mr. Obvious'? hehe sorry. tough day at work. carry on..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollie Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 Dion's blunder was being born Charlie Brown. :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdy Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 (edited) Easy dudes.I'm not failing to recognize that the wants and needs of Quebec may actually align with the wants and needs of the rest of Canada, nor am I conveniently forgetting that the Alliance plays a large role in the make-up of the CPC. I'm just(!) saying the formation of a coalition that relies on the Bloc's support is problematic... because it is!! Look at the polls, they show this quite clearly. Unfortunately we can't sit down and rationalize with each and every Canadian of the opinion-forming age and so it is what it is. Edited December 5, 2008 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgnor Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 And we're just(!) saying it's problematic to have a Western seperatist party in power too. Like it or not, the Libs and NDP have as great a geographical representation as the CPC and they do not represent any seperatist groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdy Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 And that's cool. But the clear difference to the uneducated Canadian who doesn't think about these things is that the western separatist party doesn't exist anymore. What exists now is the CPC who run candidates in every single riding (?) across the country come election time, who incorporate the old national PC's and don't call themselves separatists. So, while I acknowledge your fear of possible coercion, this idea isn't as problematic for Canadians as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaggyBalls Posted December 6, 2008 Report Share Posted December 6, 2008 "The promise to support a coalition isn't a win for separatism, it's a win for Quebec. It puts their agenda - wants and needs above the agendas of all of the other provinces. The coalition, dependant on the Blocs support will form policy with the knowledge that they have to cater to Quebec to get it passed. If anything will further alienate the West who already feels alienated for so many reasons, this is it. We have the option to vote for parties that are represented across Canada, we do not have the option to vote for the Bloc."Start an 'Ontario kicks ass' party. It'll get more vites than the marijuana party and might get more seats than the Greens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgnor Posted December 6, 2008 Report Share Posted December 6, 2008 So you wittingly back a party who dissimulates a national identity out of the ashes of a demoralized and weak PC party, while they hide their true intention of seperation (?) The honesty of the Bloc, while shocking for most Canadians, should be for those who are aware quite refreshing. They declare themselves seperatists one day, and remain so today and tomorrow, although they often put those ideas aside for the good of the greater nation, as has been seen by their past support for various non-partisan legislations. Even if they do this out of self preservation or self interest, it has benefitted us. What troubles me is the popular support that the CPC recieve regardless of these similar truths about the nature, and goals of some in the party... they are both seperatists and liars, they do one thing and mislead us in another direction... those who are aware and still support them belie their personal agenda, or they refuse to see the truth. and although it would be nice if people understood their government, there is little hope that they ever will if we continue to back a party whose real goal is the dissolution of the nation, whether they admit it out loud or they do their work in the shadows, if we elect snakes we will be bitten, but who can blame us if we elect good guys who turn out to be snakes, right? We take the blame when we re-elect them and expect different. So while I appreciate that you hear my fears of coercion, the continued propagandizing of the Canadian people splits them, pits them against one another, and accomplishes the goal of the totalitarian seperatists from out West. Yes, I am fear mongering now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgnor Posted December 6, 2008 Report Share Posted December 6, 2008 Some would *likely* say that the Liberal party is the Ontario kicks ass party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdy Posted December 6, 2008 Report Share Posted December 6, 2008 (edited) Well, if they got votes in Ontario perhaps. So you wittingly back a party who dissimulates a national identity out of the ashes of a demoralized and weak PC party, while they hide their true intention of seperation (?) No. Because I don't believe they do. Does this mean you think i'm witty? Edited December 6, 2008 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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