"Economic Update"

[Birdy]

I would have preferred he step down for a CP replacement, but fuck. No.

I don't mean to try to be sympathetic, because i'm not, but i think it's a tough spot to be in in the CP camp, considering everything the party has been through to get themselves there. They've had a shitload of rebuilding to do to get them out of the mess they were (CP/Alliance/Reform/post Mulroney) to get them to where they are today. For the most part, Harper's ruling with an iron fist has worked wonders for them, and for him and maybe others the question to step aside may have the potential to break apart everything they've worked so hard to put together in the past few years, not just the government, but the party. I don't know... i'm just wondering. But, it seems that this might be the case.

Either way, he's a douche. I don't know what's going to happen in the next month, but I can surely bet there will be some primo media coverage of it. Paid for primo media coverage.

I hear what everyone is saying about the whole democratic-ness of the situation, but our system is very partisan, which makes a lot of people vote not for their MP, but for the party (i'm included in that category). And when you vote for that MP belonging to that party, you expect him/her to be committed to the party - as the definition of partisan. So when a coalition government comes about, that person/party you voted for, sheds some of their partisanship. (which i'm not saying is a bad thing, but not what a lot of people actually voted for).

Still sticking to my guns though and saying we should not have a coalition government supported by separatists. Harper's a douche, but he's right about that. I was talking to my bro last night out in Calgary and I guess all the Albertans are getting super loud and angry over the possibilities of this coalition, and lots of alberta flags were coming out. Not cool, whether you think they're cowboys or not.

Same for Vancouver and Kelowna. The west wasn't too happy about the coalition.

[ollie]

"Following my advice, the Governor General has agreed to prorogue Parliament," Harper said outside Rideau Hall after a two-hour meeting with Jean.

I'm sure that's not all she agreed to prorogue. :cool:

[AD]

How nice' date=' the PM and all his Ministers along with the remaining Parliamentary MP's, get to go on an extended vacation, with pay, while the rest of the country sinks in economic turmoil.[/quote']

I like that, it has the gist of how I feel as well. Then again, technically they should all be working towards an economic helper idea, though I think the main focus will be another campaign and I don't think much will actually get done for the economy.

oh come on. you think they're all going to ignore the big problems now and go on vacation?

all four parties are going to hunker down and fight tooth and nail, and a large part of that will be showing canadians strong economic policies. and a whole lot of fierce partisan bullshit.

[Big Wooly Mammoth]

The "Seperatists" are not a one issue party. And on the other issues they have much in common with the coalition parties. They want what's best for their province and their constiuents. It doesn'y have to be all (separation) or nothing. They also wants what's best for their them in terms of the environment, health care, the economy, etc. So they won't have to hold the coalition hostage to meet their demands.

[Birdy]

It's not all separation or nothing.

It's the problem of them wanting what's best for THEIR PROVINCE. They don't want what's best for CANADA.

[d_rawk]

all four parties are going to hunker down and fight tooth and nail, and a large part of that will be showing canadians strong economic policies. and a whole lot of fierce partisan bullshit.

That's a really good point. Behind all the partisan bullshit, a very real and very substantial public debate is about to begin as a result of all this. There may be better policy initiatives as a result than there would have been had it not happened (here's hoping, anyways).

[AD]

It's the problem of them wanting what's best for THEIR PROVINCE. They don't want what's best for CANADA.

what were you saying about albertans and the west?

[mattm]

oh come on. you think they're all going to ignore the big problems now and go on vacation?

all four parties are going to hunker down and fight tooth and nail, and a large part of that will be showing canadians strong economic policies. and a whole lot of fierce partisan bullshit.

Lol, I thought it was a funny comment so I put it on there. It would be absurd to actually think that they will be going on vacation. A: There's a financial crisis to deal with and if the cons don't come up with something very, very good then they are gone so they'll be working on that quite hard. B: There's a campaign that will now be going on and that will also take a lot of their time. My worry is that it will be the campaign that will be what's worked on the hardest, or will be front and center when thinking of any other issues instead of just dealing with the issues. That's what I thought was kinda funny and of value in that dude's comment. They definitely won't go to disney world, but I'm worried that they also won't conentrate on what's important when there's an election type thing going on (not sure what to call it).

In other words, I have a feeling that all parties will be "going on vacation" when it comes to things that matter (not that they will stop working entirely). No, that doesn't mean there won't be anything for the economy but I think there will be too much fighting for power and not enough just plain work going on.

I also think that perhaps this is what we need to really get a good plan going. I think that perhaps because of this little prorogue, the parties might be forced to think of canada first so though they might campaign, as mentioned above, they will also need to come up with the best solution to win which means it might not be as bad or ugly as it could be if it were just a straight election campaign.

Edited December 4, 2008 by Guest

[ollie]

Either way, [stephen Harper's] a douche.

Somebody pinch me.

[d_rawk]

Partially digested now, and experiencing increasing dyspepsia.

Did the GG eff up?

[AD]

Absolutely

[boiler]

Did the GG eff up?

Yes. She should have sent it back to parliment and let the elected officials of our country make the decision for who holds the confidence of parliment. I can't understand how she sided with Harper on this. She is not allowed to be partisian. I'm pissed about what she's done. The majority of our parliment did not want this suspension and that's what her decision should have been. Total bullshit.

[boiler]

She should be fired when parliment resumes.

[can-o-phish]

Partially digested now, and experiencing increasing dyspepsia.

Did the GG eff up?

In my opinion, YES. This has created a precedent for all governments that follow as a way to duck/run & hide from democracy.

Why didn't she make Harper & The Conservatives face the music? Only she can answer that and I'm sure she has her reasons.

Maybe she was pissed off at all of them for putting an end to her European visit and has now sat them all in time-out corners.

But now we have to deal with two months of BS that will be at the highest level. It's going to be nasty.

[d_rawk]

I think I agree. My stomach hurts. This decision will be referred to countless times into the future.

[boiler]

Can she change her mind, say tomorrow?

[can-o-phish]

Can she change her mind, say tomorrow?

Like Harper taking out the BS legislation that started this whole fiasco?

I wish but it ain't gonna happen!

[d_rawk]

I believe that she could, as head of state, reverse her decision, but I imagine that she has weighed this heavily and that her decision will remain her decision.

In 2058, someone will say "I believe that you have forgotten the precedent set in the Harper-Jean affair".

[Birdy]

what were you saying about albertans and the west?

That they're upset about a potential tip in the balance of provincial power, and rightly so.

Somebody pinch me.

hahahaha! I told you i'm not a die-hard.

One of my downfalls in life could be giving people the benefit of the doubt. I like everyone upon first meeting, and then when they fuck shit up, then I question.

Edited December 4, 2008 by Guest

[AD]

what were you saying about albertans and the west?

That they're upset about a potential tip in the balance of provincial power' date=' and rightly so.[/quote']

so it's ok to be talk about Alberta but it's absolutely wrong to do anything to appease elected members from Quebec and thus their constituents?

[d_rawk]

One of my downfalls in life could be giving people the benefit of the doubt. I like everyone upon first meeting, and then when they fuÇk sh!t up, then I question.

Word.

[Kanada Kev]

I want to hear what Michalle Jean has to say. We probably won't hear a word about the meeting though (much was the same with Adrienne Clarkson).

Why is it that an appointed representative gets to make this decision??? The gov't is voted in by the people, the GG is NOT. Should this decision not have been made by someone that, we the people, entrusted with the authority??

Interesting that she has now just done what Byng did in the past. It was because of that there were changes made to the GG position/role. I guess nothing changed.

The position of Governor General greatly changed during the late 1920s and early 1930s in the aftermath of the King-Byng Affair. In 1926 the Liberal Prime Minister William Lyon Mackenzie King requested that Governor General Lord Byng of Vimy dissolve parliament. The Governor General however, used his reserve power to refuse the request, citing both the fact that King actually held the minority of seats, and the general election that had been held only months earlier. Accordingly, King resigned, and Lord Byng appointed Arthur Meighen to replace him. Within a week however, Meighen's Conservative government lost a no-confidence vote in the House of Commons, forcing the Governor General to dissolve Parliament and call elections. After Mackenzie King returned to power with a clear parliamentary majority, he sought to redefine the role of the governor general.

At an Imperial Conference held later in 1926 the United Kingdom, Canada, and other Dominions all accepted the Balfour Declaration. The declaration acknowledged that the Dominions were equal in status to the United Kingdom, and that each governor-general would henceforth function solely as a representative of the Crown within their respective dominions, and not as an agent of the British government.[8] Instead, the latter function would be taken over by high commissioners akin to ambassadors. The principle of the equality of the Dominions was further extended by the Statute of Westminster, 1931. The declaration abandoned the idea that the British Crown owned the territory of the entire empire, instead granting the status of a kingdom to each Dominion and separating the King's status as monarch of one realm from another. Though the declaration officially recognized the independence of the Dominion of Canada and its equality to the United Kingdom, persons born outside Canada continued to serve as Governor General until the appointment of Vincent Massey in 1952.

[Birdy]

Did the GG eff up?

I say no, because of this...

I also think that perhaps this is what we need to really get a good plan going. I think that perhaps because of this little prorogue, the parties might be forced to think of canada first so though they might campaign, as mentioned above, they will also need to come up with the best solution to win...

I find it hard to fathom that a cabinet made up of Liberals and NDP catering to the Bloc are going to easily and effectively come up with policy quickly that will benefit all Canadians. We're all demanding that our government come up with some great plan that helps Canada survive, rebuild and strengthen. I prefer we don't do it rashly. I'd be skeptical of any plan formed overnight for such a big job.

Edited December 4, 2008 by Guest

[Thorgnor]

Frankly, we have to trust Harper that this was Jean's decision, she does not speak directly to us. He could still be playing it his way, regardless of her opinion, no? I STRONGLY believe this is not the case, but do we not have precedent now to question his sincerity, if not his honesty?

She effed up and should have imo allowed a confidence vote on moday to proceed and, most democratically regardless of expense, demanded an election to be run on the grounds of coalition vs...

[AD]

I find it hard to fathom that a cabinet made up of Liberals and NDP catering to the Bloc are going to easily and effectively come up with policy quickly that will benefit all Canadians. We're all demanding that our government come up with some great plan that helps Canada survive, rebuild and strengthen. I prefer we don't do it rashly. I'd be skeptical of any plan formed overnight for such a big job.

I find it hard to fathom that a cabinet made up of Stephen Harper and his faceless drones are going to quickly and effectively come up with policy that will benefit all Canadians, especially now that he's alienated a great deal of Canadians and the majority of the House of Commons.

I'm sceptical of any plan brought forth overnight for such a big job, regardless of who presents it.