"Economic Update"

[Tissue Man]

I have a question reading some of the comments on here...

What do you guys think Harper should have done?

If he didn't prorogue, do you think he should have pushed for an election?

Obviously he's not going to sit back and let the coalition come to fruition (thank god) (which is much more undemocratic in my opinion), so what other option did he have?

it is not undemocratic.. it is the way parliment is run.

all he had to do was please one freaking party and he couldnt do that.

hey guys vote on me.. oh you arent going to vote my way.. well ill just suspend things.. spineless puke.

[Big Wooly Mammoth]

a coalition is not at all undemocratic. that's part of the propaganda of lies the cons are feeding the public. why is it so hard for people to understand our parliamentary system?

Harper had the option of facing the music on Monday. And then going to the GG and asking for an election to be called if he wanted to stop the coalition.

[can-o-phish]

I have a question reading some of the comments on here...

What do you guys think Harper should have done?

If he didn't prorogue, do you think he should have pushed for an election?

Obviously he's not going to sit back and let the coalition come to fruition (thank god) (which is much more undemocratic in my opinion), so what other option did he have?

He could have swallowed his pride and stepped down and let someone step into the role as PM. Everytime this man opens his mouth he lies and twists words of his own and others. Yes, most politicians do the same but he is the King at this.

To call another election at the cost of Canadians in an economic crisis would prove total ignorance and a complete lack of understanding of the current situation.

I don't think 6 to 8 weeks of suspended parliament will cool tempers. But what do I know.

[Birdy]

Well, i do think he's a spineless puke.

But I disagree with you saying it's not undemocratic with the reasoning it's the way parliament is run. Obviously our system isn't so democratic. Because ultimately, if a coalition took over, I didn't vote for them, and neither did you.

[AD]

Because ultimately, if a coalition took over, I didn't vote for them, and neither did you.

Everyone person in that coalition was voted into office by the electorate in their local riding.

I voted Green, so you are right in my case. Although my local representation is NDP.

[mattm]

well, I don't think that it is best for our country to wait until January, but we no longer have a choice.

And now it likely that there will be vote of no confidence on Jan 26, so it'll take even longer. Either until the coalition takes over as the gov't, or we have another election.

I should have made the second comment in purple since, though I don't like all this shit, I also think that putting it off completely for another two months just to go through the same thing again (which is what I think will happen) is just stupid. Lets deal with this shit now, new election, coalition, whatever, but stopping government for a couple months is the last thing I want to see.

[AD]

To be technical, prorogation stops parliament, not government.

But your point is bang-on.

[guigsy]

as i understand it, every person in parliament got voted in by someone. and our constitution allows for them to form a coalition in times such as this. by virtue of our vote putting them into parliament, and thus the position to do that, in a sense, we have voted and allowed for it.

if im wrong, can someone clarify where?

[Thorgnor]

We WILL see Conservative attack adds that will splinter opposition support and demonize much of Quebec's population, a copy-cat budget of what Obama will be doing south of here and then an election where more money will be wasted on the opposition attempting to paint themselves as working better with Obama while the Cons. actually do whatever he wants...

we're fucked.

[AD]

you're completely right

[larry_llama]

we will be going to the polls in feb

pointless

[Tissue Man]

Well, i do think he's a spineless puke.

But I disagree with you saying it's not undemocratic with the reasoning it's the way parliament is run. Obviously our system isn't so democratic. Because ultimately, if a coalition took over, I didn't vote for them, and neither did you.

[color:purple]well i didnt vote for the cons.. democracy doesnt work.

more then happy with a conservative government if they actually tried to get things done instead of forging ahead with their own agenda and not working with the other parties.

minority governments can always be overthrown.. the opposition try it all the time but usually dont have the numbers, its just this time every group in parliament loathes the party in power and want rid.

[can-o-phish]

I should have made the second comment in purple since, though I don't like all this shit, I also think that putting it off completely for another two months just to go through the same thing again (which is what I think will happen) is just stupid. Lets deal with this shit now, new election, coalition, whatever, but stopping government for a couple months is the last thing I want to see.

Exactly. Though I see where the GG is coming from. She's giving all the parties the opportunity to either work through this time of squabbling and put together an economic package that all parties are satisfied with and if that can't be achieved then I believe it will be handed over to the coalition, if it still exists and if not, then there will be an election.

I don't want to be subject to 8 weeks of Conservative BS ads on TV shouting the name "Separatist Coalition, evil, blah blah blah".

I have lost enough respect for them as it is.

Harper has been granted his two month vacation and he should use it to tackle the issue which is the ECONOMY, not attacking the opposition.

[larry_llama]

i cant wait to hear what neil young has to say about this tonight haha

[larry_llama]

the attack ads have already started, and mark my words they will heat up on all sides because of a threat of election early next year

they are making a mockery of the system.

and for the last time, birdy THE COALITION IS NOT UNCONSTITUTIONAL AND IT IS NOT UNDEMOCRATIC! it is exactly how the system is supposed to work.

[guigsy]

he didnt say shit when he was in ottawa.

has no problem spouting off about american politics, though.

[Thorgnor]

I don't want to be subject to 8 weeks of Conservative BS ads on TV shouting the name "Separatist Coalition, evil, blah blah blah".

I have lost enough respect for them as it is.

burn your radio

shoot your tv

[AD]

i cant wait to hear what neil young has to say about this tonight haha

the neil young who has lived in la honda california since the mid to late 60s?

[can-o-phish]

the attack ads have already started, and mark my words they will heat up on all sides because of a threat of election early next year

they are making a mockery of the system.

and for the last time, birdy THE COALITION IS NOT UNCONSTITUTIONAL AND IT IS NOT UNDEMOCRATIC! it is exactly how the system is supposed to work.

Yes, it is how the system is SUPPOSED to work but Harper also had the right to ask for a suspension, though he did it to save his ass and his government.

There will be so much sh!t happening over the next two months such as the Cons offering positions to opposition members to more backroom deals and anything else you can imagine.

All while our economy is going down the sh!tter...

Like I've said, a fuggin' three-ring circus...

[Thorgnor]

i think that's the one

[Thorgnor]

Stephen Harper should've just quoted the old song and said "Boom, Boom, Out go the lights!" bitchslapped the mic and busted the fuck out...

[AD]

lots of people on the hill right now

http://www.cbc.ca/ottawa/webcam/webcam.html

[d_rawk]

Wow, just tuned back into the thread and have been avoiding the TV / radio all day (this whole thing is so damn distracting).

Hmm. Digesting. I'm not as upset about this as I would be if we weren't in December. We are heading into the holiday season, so this is just a 'little bit' of extra extension. But as someone else said (can-o-phish?) this establishes an interesting precedent where a government was able to prorogue at the beginning of a session in order to put off the fallout from a loss of confidence (and buy time to wage a media blitzkrieg). Just. Wow.

What do you guys think Harper should have done?

If he didn't prorogue, do you think he should have pushed for an election?

Obviously he's not going to sit back and let the coalition come to fruition (thank god) (which is much more undemocratic in my opinion), so what other option did he have?

He was out of options. Step aside, I think, was all that was left for a decent and humble individual to do. Either to the coalition, or at least to another member of his own party who wasn't so tarnished with partisan hubris. I'll refrain from commenting on his decency, but humble I can say with certainty that he is not.

I *wanted* a Conservative minority, despite my political bent. Egg on my face.

[mattm]

It's too bad GG didn't put in something that said no attacks. This is a delay to figure out the economy, not to have another election campaign. If there's another election, so be it, but no attacking each other right now, think about canada.

The fact of the con attack ads alone says they are unfit to govern in my mind. If they were fit, they'd be able to come up with a concrete plan to satisfy us and wouldn't need to attack the coalition. Same goes the other way. If the coalition responds to the attack ads with their own attack ads, it's just as bad. If they are smart and constantly respond with updates to how they will deal with things (in other words, ignore the cons and just report on things), then they will truly have my respect and I will agree with it. If the cons pull the attack ads and do the same thing (hell, if they even don't report, same for coalition, just don't attack), then they too will have my respect.

Hell, if the cons can be responsible, don't attack and just work for us, I will actually vote for them in february and that is something that only this "three ring circus" could make me do.

How nice, the PM and all his Ministers along with the remaining Parliamentary MP's, get to go on an extended vacation, with pay, while the rest of the country sinks in economic turmoil.

Thanks, GG, and a Merry Xmas to you, too.

I like that, it has the gist of how I feel as well. Then again, technically they should all be working towards an economic helper idea, though I think the main focus will be another campaign and I don't think much will actually get done for the economy.

Also, edit to add that since turning on the parliament webcam, I think there's even more people there now then a few minutes ago, the crowd looks a little bigger...

Additionally, we are in the biggest financial crisis in a generation and we have no one dealing with it. Another month and a half of inaction, how much longer will this be allowed to continue? We're already had more than 6 previous months of inaction. The rest of the world is having special sessions of government to deal with the economic situation; ours is now going on vacation. I just can't express my anger in words anymore without being rude, so I'm ending my comments here.

I like that too.

Edited December 4, 2008 by Guest

[boiler]

Because ultimately, if a coalition took over, I didn't vote for them, and neither did you.

No, nobody voted for that forum of governemt agreed. We don't vote a a forum for government in Canada at all, we vote for a member of parliment, who may or may not (ind) be representative of a political party. Who gets to govern is decided by our constitution in who or what group of MP's holds the confidence of parliment.

We are not in the States, we do not vote for a prime minister. We vote for an MP. Period. We entrust our MP's to make decisions for us on our behalf in parliment. Our say is done as soon as we've cast our vote.

Edited December 4, 2008 by Guest