"Economic Update"

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rae and iggy were on question period this morning saying that dion has to be replaced before parliament resumes.

bye bye coalition. i won't miss your ridiculousness at all.

[guigsy]

the fact that this was not undemocratic, there was no constitutional crisis, and this is the way parliament (especially a minority govt!) is supposed to work, ie: together, is a point that needs to be hammered home by the opposition parties and the media, or we're looking at a Con majority come february.

then we're gonna lose paisley to europe.

i think harper knows exactly how things work. i wouldnt be surprised, though, if he looked at voter turnout/voter apathy from the last election, and made the calculation that most people wouldnt understand or care enough about what was happening.

design the play, create the spin, watch the numbers roll in.

i think shredder basically said something like this already, maybe not exactly that way, but i agree it was definitely a calculated play by harper. he's got the libs right where he wants them right now - come january, they either vote in a budget they're not happy with, or they go to the polls in february with no leader and in shambles after the coalition debauchle, and hand over a majority. thank you very much.

smart guy, that harper, but i cant fuckin stand him.

[Birdy]

rae and iggy were on question period this morning saying that dion has to be replaced before parliament resumes.

Rae too eh? 'Bout time.

They've got a month to get their shit together, really, really fast. Unfortunately I doubt it'll be enough time.

Think they'll pass the budget?

Does anyone know what it takes to get party's to run candidates in ridings they traditionally don't run candidates in? I could potentially find myself in a bit of a 'who the f should i vote for' quandary if this comes to an election. I don't want a CP majority... but that doesn't mean that i could bring myself to vote for the options i have. I have no idea if i even have options.

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Does anyone know what it takes to get party's to run candidates in ridings they traditionally don't run candidates in?

i know what this is about: you want to run for the Bloc in Chatham right?

[Birdy]

haha. not me. i want to talk one of my friends into running for the Bloc in Chatham.

but... if the Bloc's a no go, I'd settle for the Progressive Canadians... or the Libertarian party.

[Birdy]

A different take on conspiracy.

Recap of the Week and Crisis

It doesn't matter how the Prime Minister acquired the knowledge that the opposition parties had been plotting to overthrow his government. What does matter is what he plans to do with the knowledge.

Since the overthrow is constitutional, the PM must agree that its a legitimate action. But the PM believes that the coup would be damaging to the nation and immoral. So, he knows he must stop it. Shocking as this will be to your media, I state again: it doesn't matter how he got the information.

The coup only works if the Liberals are in. But, there is no hard evidence of the Liberal's involvement in the planning stages of the conspiracy. However, Stephane Dion did disappear from view after the election - hatching something; and Duceppe and Layton would not have invested so much time in developing the thing without some belief that the Liberals would be game.

Once the Prime Minister decides - for moral and patriotic reasons - that he should stop the replacement of his government, he has to decide whether or not he should actively prevent the coup when it happens or before it happens. If you wait until it happens, then you do not control the field. If you force it, you control the field.

So the Prime Minister decides to force the coup rather than wait for the opposition's convenience. He sets up a fiscal update with three poison pills that each of the other parties could never swallow: for the NDP it was some hard-core lefty stuff; for the Liberals and Bloc it was hard-core cash.

The coup, in organization and speed, was stupendous. Liberal leadership started off very strong and the caucus, as we all know and will remember forever, was united in the putsch. Only after prorogation did 1 or 2 Liberal MPs speak out against the coalition of the fast-shrinking majority.

The Prime Minister was in his right and doing his job as Prime Minister in the last ten days. Against, as usual, an onslaught of media venom that was embarassing in its artifice. The Liberals killed their brand in offering to put the federal government in the hands of the Bloc Quebecois.

They then cremated the brand when they accepted Bloc hegemony over Quebec. Federalist Quebeckers can never again trust the Liberal party. Like the Bloc, the Liberal party is a regionalist party representing urban Ontario and the Maritimes. It is not a national party in the way the NDP and Conservatives are national parties. The days of Liberals winning 80 seats in an election are over.

[can-o-phish]

A different take on conspiracy.

Recap of the Week and Crisis

It doesn't matter how the Prime Minister acquired the knowledge that the opposition parties had been plotting to overthrow his government. What does matter is what he plans to do with the knowledge.

Since the overthrow is constitutional, the PM must agree that its a legitimate action. But the PM believes that the coup would be damaging to the nation and immoral. So, he knows he must stop it. Shocking as this will be to your media, I state again: it doesn't matter how he got the information.

The coup only works if the Liberals are in. But, there is no hard evidence of the Liberal's involvement in the planning stages of the conspiracy. However, Stephane Dion did disappear from view after the election - hatching something; and Duceppe and Layton would not have invested so much time in developing the thing without some belief that the Liberals would be game.

Once the Prime Minister decides - for moral and patriotic reasons - that he should stop the replacement of his government, he has to decide whether or not he should actively prevent the coup when it happens or before it happens. If you wait until it happens, then you do not control the field. If you force it, you control the field.

So the Prime Minister decides to force the coup rather than wait for the opposition's convenience. He sets up a fiscal update with three poison pills that each of the other parties could never swallow: for the NDP it was some hard-core lefty stuff; for the Liberals and Bloc it was hard-core cash.

The coup, in organization and speed, was stupendous. Liberal leadership started off very strong and the caucus, as we all know and will remember forever, was united in the putsch. Only after prorogation did 1 or 2 Liberal MPs speak out against the coalition of the fast-shrinking majority.

The Prime Minister was in his right and doing his job as Prime Minister in the last ten days. Against, as usual, an onslaught of media venom that was embarassing in its artifice. The Liberals killed their brand in offering to put the federal government in the hands of the Bloc Quebecois.

They then cremated the brand when they accepted Bloc hegemony over Quebec. Federalist Quebeckers can never again trust the Liberal party. Like the Bloc, the Liberal party is a regionalist party representing urban Ontario and the Maritimes. It is not a national party in the way the NDP and Conservatives are national parties. The days of Liberals winning 80 seats in an election are over.

I don't know what to make of this post...

ChuckerCanuck states that the "overthrow is constitutional" yet by definition a coup is the sudden unconstitutional overthrow of a government by a part — usually small — of the state establishment — usually the military — to replace the branch of the stricken government, either with another civil government or with a military government.

So right off the bat this summation starts off on the wrong foot...then goes on to support the phone conversation that was taped and released to the media and this doesn't matter???

Well, I for one would be opposed to anyone taping/recording my conversations no matter what the topic. It is an invasion of privacy. But I have to assume that Chucker thinks that the PM was under the impression that there was some army outside 24 Sussex Drive and on Parliament Hill...

Then more talk of a "coup" and that Federalist Quebeckers can no longer trust the Liberals?...ummm, last time I checked it was the Conservatives that have been further damaged in Quebec, not the Liberals...

The 1 or 2 Liberal MP's that spoke out, spoke out against Dion not being able to hold the coalition together and his weak speech that followed Harper's, not against the coalition...

There are more holes in this than a colander...

[can-o-phish]

rae and iggy were on question period this morning saying that dion has to be replaced before parliament resumes.

bye bye coalition. i won't miss your ridiculousness at all.

Oh yes, the Liberals will be dead in the water if Dion is still around come January 26th.

I didn't live in Ontario when Rae was the premier, but am I correct in thinking that he's still not very popular with Ontarians? If so, what the hell are the Liberals thinking about backing him? I wasn't impressed with how he treated Dion after it was all over; came across as a self-righteous pompous ass...just my opinion...

[SaggyBalls]

"I say it,

it's hyperbole and redendancy,

you say it, YT,

it's

sublime genius... +1

"

no...when you say it it's paragraphs of pissy pinko rants.

[SaggyBalls]

Please don't even use the word genius jokingly with me.

It's a waste of everyone's time - make some real jokes if you're gonna be funny TB. Smileys don't do it justice.

If anything, the crap slurp visual was all I was expecting of anyone - milkshake or cocaine, it don't matter to me...but dear god your poor sinuses.

It would be much better if I knew that you were joking TB cause it doesn't always seem like you're anything but serious.

I just don't like to mince words and sometimes it's just so tedious to read such seemingly heated expressions of distrust that I forget that our views are somewhat aligned.

I'm so glad that I can remember meeting you and that you had this intensely dorky goofy grin on your face cause admittedly our (collective) internet presence sometimes leaves a lot to be desired and explained.

It's really just what we feel we are comfortable explaining and if we understand what others might not get to know.

Peace and Rice.

I wonder how many times people get on here, see i've psted or what i've posted and say 'fuck not that guy again'.

I hope it's more than I could imagine.

dude you've got a chunk of corn in your moustache.

[d_rawk]

haha. not me. i want to talk one of my friends into running for the Bloc in Chatham.

Good luck with that!

They don't even accept memberships / financial contributions from non-Quebec residents (https://secure.bloc.org/formulaires/secure/contribution/formulaire.asp)

[Birdy]

I wasn't being serious about the Bloc.

[Big Wooly Mammoth]

I didn't live in Ontario when Rae was the premier, but am I correct in thinking that he's still not very popular with Ontarians? If so, what the hell are the Liberals thinking about backing him? I wasn't impressed with how he treated Dion after it was all over; came across as a self-righteous pompous ass...just my opinion...

I voted for the man. I even campaigned for our local NDP candidate who was an MPP when Rae was premier. He lost to the Liberal. I knew that we were in serious trouble when I saw the votes being counted at the polling station in which I was working. There were a lot of votes for the PC candidate and this was in an ethnic lower income neighbourhood (Oakwood Vaughn Rd area).

Anyway, your are correct in that Rae is definitely unelectable in Ontario. He came in at a real bad time - just as we were heading into recession. And he tried some bold policies. While they didn't all work, he had the guts to try them, and to take risks, for which I admire him. He tried to share the pain with his Rae Days, but that really pissed people off. He would be a terrible choice as leader of the Federal Liberal Party though. Although, personally I like him. But they would stand no chance with him as leader.

[can-o-phish]

]

I voted for the man. I even campaigned for our local NDP candidate who was an MPP when Rae was premier. He lost to the Liberal. I knew that we were in serious trouble when I saw the votes being counted at the polling station in which I was working. There were a lot of votes for the PC candidate and this was in an ethnic lower income neighbourhood (Oakwood Vaughn Rd area).

Anyway, your are correct in that Rae is definitely unelectable in Ontario. He came in at a real bad time - just as we were heading into recession. And he tried some bold policies. While they didn't all work, he had the guts to try them, and to take risks, for which I admire him. He tried to share the pain with his Rae Days, but that really pissed people off. He would be a terrible choice as leader of the Federal Liberal Party though. Although, personally I like him. But they would stand no chance with him as leader.

Thanks for the quick history and a co-worker had similar things to say with regards to Rae's gutsy politics and trying to deal with the recession.

It seems there is an immediate push for Ignatieff to become the interim leader for the Liberals as they seem to think that it's important to have a new leader in place by January 26...

YA THINK!?!?!?!?!

[Big Wooly Mammoth]

http://isharperprimeminister.ca/

[can-o-phish]

http://isharperprimeminister.ca/

Funny though if the coalition(?) chooses to push for a vote of non-confidence the Liberals could be left in tatters as the polls show that Canadians do not want a coalition supported by the Bloc.

So if an election were held and the mistrust of Canadians thinking that if a Conservative minority happened again the coalition would be granted governing power, better to vote for a Conservative majority.

If the Conservatives are toppled in January, will Harper be replaced or will he still be the Conservatives choice for leader? Anyone?

[SmoothedShredder]

I think after the bump in the polls, those opportunists gunning for Harper in the party have backed off. This is Harpers baby... he's in it until he's elected out by the people... so even if the coalition goes through, and he loses power that way, he'll still be the leader of the official opposition. Atleast that the way I see it unfolding.

Peter MacKay is the natural successor to the party, and he's not making any noise right now (that I know of)... so that also makes me feel Harper is safe.

Iggy, as I said during the Liberal leadership race, is Harpers only real concern (leadership wise). It seems like the Liberals are finally going to make the right choice... but only time will tell if it's too late, or what really the fuck is going to happen.

[meggo]

commentary from the globe:

Our Robert Mugabe moment, and other unpleasant memories

LAWRENCE MARTIN

From Monday's Globe and Mail

December 8, 2008 at 12:00 AM EST

From the nine Ottawa days that shook and debased our little political world, there was madness and mischief and moments that won't, unfortunately, abandon the memory for a good deal of time.

Our Robert Mugabe moment

Surely whoever made this comparison was joking. But read the headlines in The New York Times, on CNN, in papers across the globe: "Canadian leader suspends Parliament to stay in power." Would Robert M. approve? A prime minister promises the Opposition a confidence vote. A prime minister sees he will lose that vote. A prime minister moves to shut down the House of Commons, lock the doors of Parliament.

Maybe you wouldn't get much argument from the African strongman. We were told our House was dysfunctional in August when the PM overturned his own fixed-election-date law to go to the polls. We were effectively told again last week it was dysfunctional when, like then, it wasn't.

And did a great rush of disgust from our citizenry greet the lockdown?

Not really. As polls suggested, most Canadians, beholding the ineptitude of the opposition Liberals, applauded.

Governor-General zips her lips

The G-G makes a decision of historic proportion. She decides, in effect, that Stephen Harper remains in power. She issues not a word of public explanation. No one complains about her cone of silence. It's convention, we are told. In this democracy, we are not entitled to hear the reasons. Simple as that. And everyone rolls over and lets the convention stick. Back to your tea, G-G.

The Hogwash Hall of Fame

Falsehoods being a leader's best friend, our Prime Minister rolled out at least a half dozen complete canards, some of which should be candidates for the Hogwash Hall of Fame: He claimed there was no flag at the coalition ceremony, that the opposition would be allowed a confidence vote, that it was forming a separatist coalition, that the Liberal leader was not entitled to form a government, that the Bloc had a veto over the coalition, that the Bloc was promised seats in the Senate.

All dead wrong.

But so what if the bullshine meter goes off the charts? We're so used to politicians putting the truth to death that it doesn't matter any more.

If it's commonplace, it's not news. The PM paid no price. He won last week's PR campaign in a walk.

Demagoguery pays

Canadians democratically elect MPs to their federal Parliament. Whether they be separatists, botanists, or snow boarders, they have a perfect right and responsibility to partake in our governing process.

Bloc Québécois MPs have performed responsibly in the House of Commons for 15 years. They reached an agreement not to bring down an NDP-Liberal coalition for 18 months. In high dudgeon, the PM portrayed the opposition grouping as a separatist coalition, as the next closest thing to a separatist takeover. The Liberals were out "to destroy Canada." He stoked anger across the Prairies, revived the long-silent separatist issue, and skilfully changed the debate terrain from his pilloried economic statement to national unity. It showed again - remember his painting all Liberals as anti-Israeli and non-war supporters as pro-Taliban - that demagoguery works. Oversimplify, hyperbolize, prey on people's base instincts. Score big.

Liberals as losers

For all Stephen Harper's handiwork, the performance of Stéphane Dion, who must resign now, was worse. The Liberals had the government on the run. They let the occasion pass them by - and won't get another chance like it.

Through their ineptitude, they brought Gilles Duceppe, having said he wasn't a coalition member, to the coalition-signing agreement.

For a critical national TV broadcast, they brought in an embarrassing video of their dazed leader. They kept star player Michael Ignatieff in the shadows. They let Stephen Harper set the terms of the debate.

In the Commons they were pitiful. When it was apparent that Mr. Harper would break his vote promise and cut and run to the Governor-General for mercy, they could have had him. Like the Conservatives who used most every question in the House to lambaste a separatist coalition, they should have used every question to label Mr. Harper a coward, a leader too scared to face the music, a leader who was indeed about to dip into Third World tactics - going beyond even his own dirty-tricks handbook - and shut down Parliament. They could have had him so embarrassed by week's end that he would have looked shameful in running off, tail between his legs, to Rideau Hall.

But they don't know how to mount an attack. They stood there with their chins primed for clobbering - and got clobbered.

The nightmare before Christmas ended up with them - not the prime minister who can't master his demons - at the top of the loser line-up.

[Kanada Kev]

Thanks for posting meggo. That was a really good summary of the bullshit we've just experienced.

I am glad that somebody wrote something about the GG's friggin' SILENCE!

[can-o-phish]

Yes, that sums it up very nicely. Thanks for the post

[can-o-phish]

All signs point to LeBlanc dropping out and supporting Iggy...

Dion Steps Down

[Thorgnor]

I think you're all pinko's

"Oversimplify, hyperbolize, prey on people's base instincts. Score big."

Truer words...

[SaggyBalls]

You still burninate.

[phishtaper]

im not even paying attention to all of this now.

i have lights to hang, bows to tie and driveways to shovel.

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