Jay Funk Dawg Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Some on mentioned this is a previous thread and although I disagree with the statement - to a degree I will have to admit that there are some mediocre singing in Jamband history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewRider Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 There is out right SHIT singing in jamband history. Does that mean they shouldn't play? I don't think so. If you can sell tickets and ya'll play a good instrument why not run with it? Maybe try not to sing so damn much! There's bad singers in folk, there's bad singers in rock n' roll, there's bad singers in every genre as far as I'm concerned. Fuck 'em. I don't care who likes them as long as I don't have to hear it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schwa. Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 tigger should learn to type before he can have an opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadianphan Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 I have to agree with Jay, there are plenty of "Jambands" that have poor vocals (most notably the Disco Biscuits) but it does not follow that all Jambands suffer from poor vocals. How about Dave Mathews, Ben Harper, John Popper, Reid Genauer (Strangefolk & Assembly of Dust) and Nate Wilson and Joe Farrell (Percy Hill). These are all very good vocalists in bands that can really jam out. That said I'm willing to trade off vocals for jams, which I suspect is a common thread in this forum... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaggyBalls Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 So...what 'jambands' focus on songwriting? I can't say I've heard many lately that write entirely mystifying songs whose arrangements and vocal lines support one another thematically.The last time I picked that out while listening to a 'jamband' was around 2002 and I was listening to 'Birth of Confusion' - Grand Theft Bus' first album...when they were a 'jamband'I think 'Jambands' are more often than not concerned with playing the music for a party than writing the awesome record and songs that you'd want to put on and NOT dance or rock out to."These are all very good vocalists in bands that can really jam out"I wouldn't call the Innocent Criminals a 'jamband' - they're Ben Harper's band.Dave Matthews Band doesn't scream 'jamband' - a band that can jam out...Blues Traveller is a jamband. Everyone is impressive. Put a Blues Traveller album beside a Wilco Record and you'll probably see the 'crappy singer' theme jump right out.I can trade off vocals for Jams if they're communicative and not just lucky.That being said, I rarely listen to music for the words. When a band's entire set is transparent enough that you can't tell when the jam begins/is about to begin, then that's a band that I would gladly take whatever was played. Most acts I've seen that do this flawlessly are not jambands.I can't say that about Dave Matthews Band, Ben Harper OR Blues Traveller. None of these bands had entirely transparent sets when i saw them, Blues Traveller being the best at it - impressive but not really 'mindblowing'. I have had very little use for these acts after hearing the 'jam' cue. They'd pull out fancy tricks that people ate like candy from a stranger, only to be led into the van. Most people felt it tickle but I felt violated and cheated out of time and money. To be fair, I was momentarily distracted now and again, as those acts are all great - but still...'jambands'? I wouldn't have said so at the time. Fakers? I may have been able to use that word at the time. Many top performers jam and do it well. Are THEY 'Jambands'?I heard a String Cheese Incident show at a friend's place this weekend and remembered why Jambands don't get my vote. I was so glad the stereo eventually went off.Is 'Railroad Earth' a Jamband? nope. they're a country band. Big crossover audience. Is Neil Young a Jamband act? nope. What about Lenny Kravitz? nope. What about a band like John Brown's Body? Reggae band. Antibalas? afrobeat. Soulive? Jazz/funk...But 'Jamband'?Great music...sometimes entirely not great music.If only we could tell all those bands that don't spend enough time on writing and arrangement to keep working towards having better material.It's like a hip hop instrumental track. Mostly loops, easy to make something neat but it takes hours and hours and hours and hours and hours to make it just RIGHT, with enough space for words and rhymes and emphatic phrasing.(hours and hours and hours and hours...sometimes just on tweaking the kick drum sample or a horn hit)Songwriting and arranging and making the entire concert a huge moment, or songs to string people along long enough to give them some rest between monstrous jams?Jambands, or awesome bands.I prefer awesome bands.I love hearing awesome bands that some people call Jambands. Makes me glad people in the band care enough to work just that bit more on making it just right, rather than being 'good enough'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadianphan Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 Well said. I'm always on the lookout for the my next awesome band. It used to be that the jam was the main element that appealed to me, but now i belive that composition and great songwriting mean as much to me as improvisation. Recently Keith Jarrett & Sufjan Stevens have really drawn me in. The first with his improvisation and the second with his composition and songwriting. But I felt the need to chime in and defend my jamband roots. And say something disparaging about the Disco Biscuits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaggyBalls Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 If you like Keith Jarrett, there's a huge chance you'll really like the entire ECM roster. Paul Donnely says: There is a sublime moment about three minutes into the opening track when Gismonti abstracts chords from ‘Café’, a track from his 1978 album Sol Do Meio Dia and Haden steps in with one of those heart-stopping bass solos that you never want to end. Then it becomes obvious that these two are so perfectly in tune with each other. And it doesn’t end there. It is an album of sublime moments. That's about the gist of why I started listening to jambands, and this duo recording is nothing but. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaggyBalls Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esau. Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 Is 'Railroad Earth' a Jamband? nope. they're a country band.Since we're dissecting other's posts...As a person who pimarily listens to acoustic old-time pre-war folk/blues/ragtime/gospel/Appalachian/bluegrass music (how's that for a label?) its funny to read what people deem country music. It seems for some folks when a band takes a honky-tonk style shuffle, country influence or element, suddenly "they're a country band".Just like the label "jamband" so many bands are blanketed with, its not that cut & dry sorry to say. Hank Williams Sr. had a country band. RRE in my opinion, does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewRider Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 Just like the label "jamband" so many bands are blanketed with, its not that cut & dry sorry to say. Hank Williams Sr. had a country band. RRE in my opinion, does not.Word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaggyBalls Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 Since we're dissecting other's posts...acoustic, old-time pre-war folk/blues/ragtime/gospel/Appalachian/bluegrass music (how's that for a label?) I think that if you were someone that felt the need to find a 'label' you could just say: 'I listen to the first new music'.Cause that's really some of the first bit of freedom in music and its evolution have had outside of European classical/romantic music.So maybe 'country' isn't the best moniker...but the 'roots music' scene is pretty vast - and they toy around with the term 'jamband' and 'folk rock'FWIW I wouldn't put RRE, Yonder Mountain, or Alison Krauss on a list if I were asked to make a list of 'Jambands'. As great as it potentially could be, I wouldn't think a great couple of bands to put on the same bill on the same night would be The Breakfast and Hot Buttered Rum. A great weekend, but maaaybe not the same night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamilton Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 Since we're dissecting other's posts...acoustic, old-time pre-war folk/blues/ragtime/gospel/Appalachian/bluegrass music (how's that for a label?) I think that if you were someone that felt the need to find a 'label' you could just say: 'I listen to the first new music'.Cause that's really some of the first bit of freedom in music and its evolution have had outside of European classical/romantic music.Maybe some of the "earliest freedom" in recorded music, anyway. A great deal of what Esau listed there derives from traditional Anglo-Celtic music that certainly doesn't fall under the umbrella of "European classical/romantic music". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaggyBalls Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 Did you read what I wrote? Freedom and its revolution have had OUTSIDE of that classical umbrella.I didn't say evolution FROM.How're the bananas these days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esau. Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 The whole label thing, as well my point went right over your head obviously. That wasn't a label, that was merely a list of the musics I listen to. Personally I thought that was apparent. Come on, are you really required purple font to grasp that?"philadelphia lawyer" I believe is the term my father used for folks that do what you did.Anyway, my point is lost if I have to break it down into explanations and I won't dilute it further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamilton Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 (edited) Did you read what I wrote? Freedom and its revolution have had OUTSIDE of that classical umbrella.I didn't say evolution FROM.How're the bananas these days?Did YOU read what I wrote? I never implied that you said that it evolved FROM classical music.My point was that music has been evolving outside of the umbrella of classical music for millenia. That Anglo-Celtic music never fell under that umbrella itself, and thereby existed side-by-side with European classical music. And, thus, that the music listed by Esau is not "the first new music" as you implied (but that it may represent some of the first non-classical music recorded).Jesus fuck.The bananas are fine. Edited January 20, 2009 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewRider Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 Did anyone read what I wrote? Disco Biscuits blow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Wooly Mammoth Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 widespread panic have decent sonwriting. their songs actually tell stories. and JB is a good vocalist IMNSHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamilton Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 Did anyone read what I wrote? Disco Biscuits blow!Ooooooo! Ooooooooo! I read that!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewRider Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 Shine on you crazy diamonds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Funk Dawg Posted January 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 I certainly think there's a idea out there that 'jamming' is a negative aspect of music. It's funny because the bands I like most are some of those who's best moments are in the true spirit of music of the moment. I guess it's that connection to jazz that jam music offers me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey Boy 2.0 Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 If wooks hadn't infested the "scene" there wouldn't be nearly as much backlash against the genrealas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edger Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 There is probably some truth to that Davey Boy. I think Esau is right on the money. Frankly these types of discussions frustrate/exhaust me. Not that they're not worth having i suppose, but i don't think they necessarily go anywhere.The whole label thing... I find too many people, fans, bands, artists, etc. spend too much time and energy trying to avoid a label, or define themselves outside of some imposed boundary. Who cares? The label doesn't change the sound that hits me.For me personally I love a "great" vocalist... How one would define "great" is a matter of taste. Hell, there's plenty of people out there that would consider Jerry's voice atrocious. To me it's like a warm blanket on a cold winter's night. Give me a great melody, some sweet harmonies, a lyric or two that resonates one way or another, and if there's a jam or some improvisation in there than that's just gravy...but not essential. Depends on the mood i suppose. I don't really care whether whether it's country, or jam, or fusion, or emo or whatever other category happens to be shique amongst the masses for a fleeting moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaimoe Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 The Allmans and Dead shouldn't be lumped in with the rest of this lot, historically speaking. And I'd love to mine Esau/Greg's "traditional" music record collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaimoe Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 And does anyone enjoy it when a jazz instrumentalist composes songs using a vocalist to flesh things out a la Pat Metheny? The result is worse than most average-sung jam songs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal Johnson Posted January 20, 2009 Report Share Posted January 20, 2009 (edited) Wiki link - "jamband" And by Dan Greenhaus 2005-10-12 The Jamband Backlash: Where did Things Go Wrong? Edited January 20, 2009 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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