dmechristen Posted November 25, 2003 Report Share Posted November 25, 2003 I have lurked on these boards for a long time. I love music and I have been introduced to many new bands by this site. I mostly just read as I just never felt I had anything to contribute that some else hadn’t already said. In fact I only signed up as a member today. I made the decision to post today because of my extreme disappointment and the lack of anyone else noticing this or posting about it. I learned about a band last year that basically turned my world upside down. They were beyond any music I had ever heard in my life. The way they played made me feel alive. I collected clips of their music with my mini-disk at every show I went to. I bought their CD at the first show I went to within 15 minutes of them starting to play. I regularly listen to them…particularly if I am feeling down or uninspired. This band is Wassabi Collective. Recently I have learned the words to most of the songs I have recordings of. There are a couple of words I can’t figure out but I can definately sing along to most of it. This is where I found the greatest disappointment. Have you ever listened to Wassabi’s words? If you listen closely, you will realize that there are words being plagiarized. I don’t know how much of it but I found Jeff Buckley and Ben Harper. They weren’t taken word for word like a cover song. They just took parts of songs and sometimes even the melody. I have no respect for abuse of another artists work. It is one thing to play a cover. But it is quite another to take parts of music from other artists and try to pass it off as “original”. I lost a lot of respect for the Wassabi Collective and I feel that others should know what they are doing. Stealing Sucks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon. Posted November 25, 2003 Report Share Posted November 25, 2003 not that i'm a huge fan of wassabi or anything, but i think that sampling music these days is pretty accepted. Perhaps we are used to musical sampling ...maybe this is lyrical sampling, does wassabi really rely that much on their lyrical quality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondtube Posted November 25, 2003 Report Share Posted November 25, 2003 wow. i don’t have a single piece of wassabi music to check and verify your accusation, but it sounds like you really liked them, and have no reason to lie. on law and order last night, they used that in court. i guess a statement stands if the person states something contradictory to what they would normally believe, thus making the statement more credible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondtube Posted November 25, 2003 Report Share Posted November 25, 2003 music sampling is ok because you can't copyright the progression of chords (i dont think) but you can copyright lyrics... thats a tough call... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esau Posted November 25, 2003 Report Share Posted November 25, 2003 I'll have to give this a check myself,haven't listened to TWC latley. Welcome to jambands.ca dmechristen.Keep posting my friend,always great to meet new folks and hear input. Cheers~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Posted November 25, 2003 Report Share Posted November 25, 2003 i don't condone stealing lyrics... but I've always considered what Wassabi does as teases and unique interpretations of sections of lyrics. The fact that it's taken so long for you to decipher them shows that the lyrics are more about sound and less about what they're actually singing. I've started to notice this more myself, and I thought it was kind of cool. I can see how it could piss some people off though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bONES Posted November 25, 2003 Report Share Posted November 25, 2003 ha wassabi are just a cover band, singing another artists lyrics...how unoriginal what kinda band does that??? geeezzzz not my cup of tea, never have been Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberHippie Posted November 25, 2003 Report Share Posted November 25, 2003 Interesting... very interesting... If they are trying to get away with something and pass those lyrics off as their own, then that's no good at all... I wonder what the band would have to say about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kung Posted November 25, 2003 Report Share Posted November 25, 2003 I'm curious what Jeff Buckley lyrics they've copped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
show---whore Posted November 26, 2003 Report Share Posted November 26, 2003 looks like we have a replacment for Wassabi KING SUNSHINE Friday Nov. 28th @ Pepper Jack's 38 King William st. Hamilton ONLY $6 Organic, funky, deep, soulful spiritually uplifting. The King Sunshine collective provides new colours to the spectrum of sound. They are Toronto's premier live house music experience. Audiences move as they perform soulful original material as well as remixes of past gems. Since 1998 they have been bringing people together to celebrate life, love and the power of music. King Sunshine performs with up to 12 members, a vibrant horn section, sweet vocals and a solid 5-piece rhythm section. They have been fortunate to share billings with some of house music's finest, including DJ Sneak, Mark Farina, Theo Parrish, Ron Trent, Alton Miller, Nick Holder, Mark Grant, Frankie Feliciano, Abacus, Jason Palmer, Groove Institute and Kenny Bobien. "Another band performing with DJs and vocalists alike -- and blowing minds as they do -- is King Sunshine... Seeing themselves as a bridge between live and electronic, jazz and dance musics, King Sunshine blend soul, funk, Latin and jazz influences into a live house experience." - EYE, Toronto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcO Posted November 26, 2003 Report Share Posted November 26, 2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
show---whore Posted November 26, 2003 Report Share Posted November 26, 2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ersh Posted November 26, 2003 Report Share Posted November 26, 2003 This has always been something that bothered me. In my highschool band I wasn't the lyricist, Dave was - but one day I heard some of his lyrics - melody and words - in another song. It kinda pissed me off because I was performing this (and singing sometimes) without knowing it was plagerized. I found more and more of this as the band went on. Dave even admitted to it, saying he was more of an 'arranger' than lyricist. But... coincidences do happen. More so in music than in lyrics though. There's 13 diffrent notes in an octave - odds of coming up with an original progression are slim these days. However, with the amount of words there are - there's no reason to use someone else's. Sometimes when I hear a chord progression that's the same as another more popular tune... I wonder if it was coincidence or a rip-off. It's easy to be both. But as far as lyrics go... I doubt it could be a coincidence. As far as Wasabi goes - even if lyrics aren't their main focus - doesn't mean they can just use whoever's and pass it off as their own. Even sampling is questionable. But at least you have to give credit on recordings for any samples used. Lyrical sampling of famous children's rhymes is different too. When something has been around long enough (100 years I think) it becomes 'public domain' This is the case with art and music. You can record a Beethoven composition and not pay royalities (you can't say you wrote it though!) and I feel a nursery rhyme or a Sesame Street song would fall into this category. They're highly recogizable tunes that a listener would know that the artist couldn't claim as their own - too well know. But they'd acknowledge the use of it as perhaps giving 'props' to it. I don't think modern music could fall into this category yet. Except for.... Hip Hop. It's hard to find a rap tune that doesn't lyrically 'borrow' from 'Rapper's Delight' or any of the earliest rap innovators' tunes - lyrically and musically. It's like there's only a dozen rap lyrics and you have to use them... And nobody seems to question that. It's completely accepted. In fact people enjoy hearing someone else's lyrics, over someone else's music, played by a DJ instead of band.... but anyway... Perhaps it depends on the genre of music. Who knows... If you can't put how you're feeling into your own words and music - call yourself a cover band - give credit where credit is due - and be happy doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-D- Posted November 26, 2003 Report Share Posted November 26, 2003 This thread reminds me of the time I sat down to write a song, and ended up writing David Wilcox's "Do The Bear-Cat" word for word. What a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave-O Posted November 26, 2003 Report Share Posted November 26, 2003 FYI - The "performing right" (radio, tv, in concert, etc.) and "reproduction right" (CD, audio, video) belong to the original composer and lyricist, as protected by the Copyright Act. The length of copyright protection runs from the moment of creation to 50 years after the death of the creator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6ftgroove Posted November 26, 2003 Report Share Posted November 26, 2003 this thread is so interesting, i'll post too. shit dude. that IS tuff. i mean... much like notes, there are only so many words and cliches and what not. i can see how stuff is repeated from one band to another. but what if it was intentional. do they say the lyrics are theirs? i know that with the girls i play with now in SFG, they copped frank zappa's "1-2-3-4-5..." from seseme street AND the timeless classic "rain, rain, go away..." lyrics.. and they are quite blatant about it. we dig it. so we do it. we don't claim its ours... but because its in the middle of a song we don't stop with any sort of disclaimer either. then again... we didn't RECORD it on an album and say it was our stuff. i hope sharing this deep dark lyrical secret with you all doesn't somehow put the band in a bad light or anything. we steal lyrics from classic children's poems. there i said. when will the guilt end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Freak Posted November 26, 2003 Report Share Posted November 26, 2003 Spearhead does that a bit. I like it- but then again I don't know how far WC goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velvet Posted November 26, 2003 Report Share Posted November 26, 2003 Hey 'ersh, I wanna see that 13 note-per-octave piano of yours! FYI The 50 year limit may go up. Disney is lobbying like crazy to get it changed before Mickey Mouse becomes public domain. Oh, the horror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kung Posted November 26, 2003 Report Share Posted November 26, 2003 I'd have to agree that it's all about intent. To bring this down to something concrete take the example of the Flaming Lips Fight Test and Cat Stevens Father and Son. Although this isn't the greatest example because it's a musical similarity rather than lyrical. I noticed this similarity almost immediately but initially sort of unconsciously which is likely the intention, Fight Test is very much it's own song but it leverages of the sentimentality associated with the chord progression which in turn evokes the lyrics and sentiment of the song ('it's not time to make a change just relax and take it easy...'). Actually this is a really good example because it shows one artist quoting another, with enough transparency that it's recognizable, with a high minded artistic intention. Also the Lips settled out of court with Yusef Islam so any legal wrangling has been resolved deferentially. Oh and 'Ersh you got to get some new hip hop to listen to if you think most people cop Rappers Delight or a string of cliches. Toss on Aesop Rock's new album Bazooka Tooth (or his older one Float or Labour Days), and you definitely won't hear any up jumped the boogie to the rhythm of the boogie. Oh Oh and if you want to be disappointed in Wassabi don't sweat the lyrics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamH Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 "Don't sweat the lyrics" I love you man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry jr. Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 Whatever happened to, "Sometimes the songs that we hear are just songs of our own?" I know the Dead don't trump copyright, but damn, that's such a good song. Wass up, bi? (I don't actually care). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmechristen Posted November 27, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 The Jeff Buckley lyris are Mojo Pin from Mystery White Boy. First verse of Irie Island is where you'll find them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Musicface Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 quote: Originally posted by Velvet: Hey 'ersh, I wanna see that 13 note-per-octave piano of yours! FYI The 50 year limit may go up. Disney is lobbying like crazy to get it changed before Mickey Mouse becomes public domain. Oh, the horror. In fact they already did this a few years back, it's 70 years now: http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,17327,00.html And the current rumor is they're trying to get it upped to 100 years. 'ersh, I've got a nearly-identical story from my high school days. The singer in my first band "wrote" some lyrics and the band collaborated on music for them. Then the drummer called me one day and said "hey, I just heard our song on MuchMusic!" I asked what the hell he was talking about, and he said he'd just seen Suzanne Vega play a song called "Left Of Center" which had, word for word, the lyrics from "our" song. We confronted the singer about it, he had some lame story about how his girlfriend had "helped" him with the lyrics and somehow that had inadvertently ripped off this other song, but that guy was a bit of a serial liar anyway. 6ftgroove's comments about taking bits from children's poems and such is one thing, and I also think 'ersh's comments about quoting from "Rapper's Delight" and other sources are something different than taking someone elses lyrics and trying to pass them off as your own. If you hear a quote from "Rapper's Delight" or "Rain, rain, go away" or "To everything, turn, turn, turn!" the point is you're SUPPOSED to know where those came from. And generally they're not being repeated verbatim without changes, they're being quoted in a larger context for some effect. Blues artists used to do the same thing, they and many modern rappers quote things as a response to the original - it's actually a form of communication which is why I believe it's accepted. Plus, if you're looking at the sources that 6ft is talking about, those are generally "public domain" anyway, so it's kind of a moot point 'cus the original author is probably not even known. There's a legal point here, but I think the bigger point is whether you're quoting as way of recalling the original piece in peoples minds, or if you're "quoting" something hoping no one will notice it's not your own statement. I think it's really about intent and credit - like the thread where someone posted a poster that bsherman had made on a board somewhere and claimed it was their creation. HIS Phish "IT" poster was based on a Stephen King movie poster, and the whole point was to create a recognizable parody, so basher didn't really need to say "this is based on that original thing" 'cus it was obvious. But the guy who took that and claimed HE had done the work - well that's just shady and wrong, even if no money is changing hands. I think most people can recognize the difference between these two things. Having said all this, I've always enjoyed Wassabi but frankly I've never really been able to decipher their lyrics, so I'm gonna reserve judgement until someone posts some examples of the lyrics they may have ripped off along with the original sources. Peace, Mr. M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaggyBalls Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 I'm not suprised. those guys seemed way too eager all the time. great energy but i never got a chance to chill out at a wassabi show - even between sets. I think it was all a aprt of their plan...din't give 'em enough time to sit and figure it out. as much as WC is a cool band, hit up king sunshine. maybe we've got a replacement for all you people that are put off by the 'plagarism'...I think it's nto an issue. those kids aren't going to be huge, just mildly recognizable in the next couple of years and that's really because they look like a bunch of wierdos and play some good tunes. i cna't wait to see what kinds of spaced out expressions steve and melissa have on much music. but seriously...those guys must trip themselves out all the time. no wonder they snagged lyrics...say you're listening to a jeff buckley album and can't get a song out of your head and you're trying to write music...you'll write stuff tht's complimentary to somejeff buckley and you might fit it in. who really cares. if it's an issue wassabi will have to either pay royalties or will have to cut a new album for pressing. calm down folks. dont' take it too personally. it's just the wassabi collective. they can't even make stickers that last on the outside of a car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Musicface Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 quote: Originally posted by dmechristen: The Jeff Buckley lyris are Mojo Pin from Mystery White Boy. First verse of Irie Island is where you'll find them. Yup, I'm convinced dmechristen. If you listen to the version of "Irie Island" from The Masquerade Sessions starting at about 1:55 in, if you're looking at these Jeff Buckley lyrics they're bang on: Well I’m lying in my bed The blanket is warm This body will never be safe from harm Still feel your hair, black ribbons of coal Touch my skin to keep me whole If only you’d come back to me If you laid at my side I wouldn’t need no mojo pin to keep me satisfied And I certainly don't see anything on my copy of the CD that credits Buckley or anybody else. That's a shame. I still dig the grooves but I've definitely lost a lot of respect for these guys as well. - M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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