ggrtrhhrtgg Posted October 4, 2004 Report Share Posted October 4, 2004 a) what is wrong with Dead heads?? ignorance is strength Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bokonon Posted October 5, 2004 Report Share Posted October 5, 2004 a) what is wrong with Dead heads?? ignorance is strength yeah, if you don't like deadheads, might not a jamband show be a weird place to go? i mean, i don't like fundamentalist religions so i am not going to hang out with the religious old lady that told me to go to hell on satudrday because i wouldn't take one of her pamphlets she was handing out on my street. (btw, this made my week, being told to go to hell by a little old lady :: :: : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamilton Posted October 5, 2004 Report Share Posted October 5, 2004 As a self-confessed Deadhead and avid observer of people, I would have to say that many Deadheads are self-congratulatory about liking music that's outside the "mainstream", but frequently do not have any appreciation whatsoever for either music that is mainstream (but not necessarily bad) or music of other (different) non-mainstream genres.My point being, I guess, that for a supposedly open-minded group of individuals, Deadheads (and jamband fans) can be quite selectively open-minded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted October 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2004 This fugger's horning in on my racket: As a self-confessed Deadhead and avid observer of people, I would have to say that many Deadheads are self-congratulatory about liking music that's outside the "mainstream", but frequently do not have any appreciation whatsoever for either music that is mainstream (but not necessarily bad) or music of other (different) non-mainstream genres. My point being, I guess, that for a supposedly open-minded group of individuals, Deadheads (and jamband fans) can be quite selectively open-minded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamH Posted October 5, 2004 Report Share Posted October 5, 2004 Hamilton: That same standard can be applied to other self-professed subgroups. "Hippies" "Freaks" or "Rebels" are commonly not what they say they are. But just to widen the discussion a bit, what are WE if all we do is label and categorize those who categorize themselves incorrectly? If all we do is spend our time chastising people for not being who they say they are, what kind of people are we, the accusers and the fingerpointers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted October 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2004 The answer to your question is it makes us chumpy people - very chumpy people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bokonon Posted October 5, 2004 Report Share Posted October 5, 2004 i think sweeping generalizations suck (in general ). just avoid the annoying individuals (regardless of which label they epouse to be) and hang out with the fun people. like me. oh yeah, and diesel dog rocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoMack Posted October 5, 2004 Report Share Posted October 5, 2004 This whole discussion reminds me of my weekend. A good buddy I haven't seen in a year was down from out west. He came up for a few drinks and I met one of my roomates buddies. I didn't mind the guy, had some mutual friends. But my buddies didn't really take to him all that much I don't think. Not sure if it was his comments about "I don't drink, but never refuse a free beer" before he continued to help him self to our beer all night. It might have been when he grabbed a pint glass from the bartender and helped himself (uninvited) to our pitchers. It could have been when we got back from the bar and he had helped himself to everything else in my buddies overnight bag. I'm not really sure. Might have been that the only opinion anyone was entitled to was his, and that he had no respect for anyone elses. Hell, he might not have even heard anyone elses, he wasn't really listening, and I'm sure by the time he was they were likely trying with all there might to piss him off because of the lack of respect and/or gratitude he had shown all night. Who knows really. Like I said, I thought he was okay, a hippy that didn't really understand the old "you take what you need and you leave the rest" but a nice enough guy. My friends aren't all hippies I guess... who knows eh? ...this weekend I took some people to see the Golden Dogs and not only did they not get that it was absolutely mind blowingly good music they shat on it too. That didn't work out for you eh? Perhaps you should have stayed at Caution Jam. In any event, were not some of those people also members of this board? If so, I'd love to hear their take on the situation. Personally, I have not had the opportunity to listen to the Golden Dogs so I do not have an opinion as of yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mister slippery Posted October 5, 2004 Report Share Posted October 5, 2004 what a lot of self-righteous crap. sure think a lot about your opinion, hmmm? i remember taking friends to see Spiritualized a few years back, whom i love. my friends hated it, and i could not understand why, but i got over it. there are other opinions besides your own. you need to chill. maybe, go for a walk. .02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggrtrhhrtgg Posted October 5, 2004 Report Share Posted October 5, 2004 what is wrong with being "narrow minded about music?" I realize this seems like a ridiculous statement, but if you know what you like, and you do not have interest in other genres, does that really make you an ogre? hmmmm, Ogre?? no, that would make you narrow visioned.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mister slippery Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 Some of you may have noticed that one thing I have a great deal of difficulty with is suffering fools. I have an ultra honed sense of decorum and what I perceive to be good humanity and when people don’t live up to that I really lose faith in the whole species. I am starting to realize that some people are just genuinely ignorant of situations because their knowledge base does not permit them to understand. I dealt with this through the jazz fest where these volunteer boards just didn’t get how involved these situations can get (artists and such), at work right now I am delivering a champagne conference on a beer budget and getting absolutely sh!t on in the process, or even this weekend I took some people to see the Golden Dogs and not only did they not get that it was absolutely mind blowingly good music they shat on it too. Ignorance. I am trying to accept my fault in all of this whether poor personal relationship skills, time or stress management or whatever but I think deep down I know that they are the ones who are fu©ked in the head not me. Of course they want you to think you’re fu©ked in the head because otherwise their precious little world falls apart. I am seriously going to kill someone soon I am just about to fu©king lose it on the species postal style. well..... theres nothing wrong at all with being narrowminded in regards to music, except what you miss as a result of not being open to possibilities. (wow, lot of i's in possibilities) -to lose faith in the species over the acts of a few is defeatist, and is not likely to cause a lot of good. -work is tough. we do what we do, and hopefully the finished product comes out well, in whatever form it may be. was praise something once freely offered, and recently removed? otherwise, im sure theres a few of us around who dont feel we are justly appreciated. we deal, and we do the best we can, because thats work ethic mixed with a need for cash. -i got a copy of the golden dogs cd couple weeks ago, and didnt care for it at all. wouldnt have gone to see em, certainly wouldnt have left jerry night for them. big deal, folks dont dig the band you like. who cares? -the last three lines of this diatribe are kinda creepy, the "im not crazy, theyre all crazy, everyones crazy, but me" is really pretty odd. .02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaggyBalls Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 Dave - Too bad you're not around when we need to hear that at other times. I think that's some fantastic advice. I should follow it. I think I will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mister slippery Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 Dave - Too bad you're not around when we need to hear that at other times. I think that's some fantastic advice. I should follow it. I think I will. im here for you, rob. how you doing, been far too long. hopin yer well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted October 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 So this has actually gotten interesting. Here's the back story for all of the pussy lurkers that gossip behind everyone's back but don't actually contribute anything. I got a call from one of the people I was with for the Relaxo> ElMo> Relaxo trip - she wranged me out for 'talking trash' about her on the internet. MoMack I am presuming is 'xxxxxx', an old tour head and really solid guy, her roommate who is also a lawyer who works for an insurance company screwing over claimants I presume (just a thought big guy). So if you read his post he's actually talking about me poaching their beers etc. I do want to put one big proviso on the whole thing that I have no fu©king idea what he is talking about his buddy's overnight bag etc. and that I did nothing of the sort and frankly am insulted. So it's actually kind of a good burn on this guys part with the proviso that he is one of those people who values his anonymity (sorry valued) and is in a completely different boat then I am having to actually take the heat for things I say. This is why lurkers suck hard. They don't actually contribute anything, they take things often too literally and often miss the sarcasm, satire and irony intended. I was not trash talking any of these people. I was talking about a phenomena called 'suffering fools'. Of course this implies they were the fools I was suffering which is a too literal take on the whole thing. I was really pointing to my inability to cope with people's subjective opinions. In fact if you read back what I wrote you will see I admitted my culpability explicitly. I also realize it sounds loco to say I am going to go postal on the species. That was the point I was satirizing myself. Now the internet is prone to these kind of miscommunications and in fact exacerbates them. This is compounded when you are a pussy lurker and have poor appreciation of the concept of irony (the difference between the literal and perceived meaning).Now the challenge is that in person I really liked these guys and we all got along. This xxxxxx guy (the working for the man guy who prides himself on being in the woodwork) is now basically defending his friends because he feels he should. But what is he defending them against. Again I was talking about a concept or an inability on my part in a variety of situations to cope with subjective opinion. This thread was not a dig or character slam against anyone I may have been with although I can see where someone might find it that way. The only other point is that this MoMack fugger has called me a beer poach, egotist (now that is original) and I believe a thief. As many of you know I am not someone you want to cross. Ever. The whole point of his remarks, clouded as they were in vagueness, was to embarass or shame me and shut me up presumably. This happens quite often around here. What you all fail to pick up on is how I undercut my own position consistently. I satirize myself far more effectively then any of you yokels could. But if you want to say I didn't listen to anything that was said that's fine but I guaranfuckingtee you I recall a great deal more about what was said all night long. I got a real kick out of his buddy Mark's Bonnaroo stories and talking about Umphrey's as the next big thing, later that night we were talking about RJD2, Tommy Guerrero and the Quannum Solesides sound (Shadow production), we talked about Latyrx (Lateef and Lyrics Born) and how fugging dope they are. Over the evening we talked about mutual Montreal friends like Jonas, Alex, Jackson and Kip (the old school tour heads). I listened as this MoMack guy repeatedly shot down any chance whatsoever his buddy had of picking up chicks(which was his only concern at the time). I listened as they progressively turned into bigger an bigger sponge brains from the combined effects of Salvia, Weed and Booze. I listened alright there just wasn't much coming out. We talked - in a dialogue- about all sorts of things and this punk wants to take that away from me to make some sort of point. Well here's my point. This is my fu©king life. I will be an impresario, a promoter, events coordinator, friend of musicians and fan alike for the rest of my life. There is a total symmetry between my life in and out of venues. My values are rock solid, I work for a non-profit charity on rural issues and am increasingly making a valued contribution to the face of rural Ontario. I am not pulling a paycheck helping the rich get richer and hiding under a 30 yr. old moss covered stone on the weekends. I know what the fu©k I am talking about and I walk the walk. I can do this because I have balls the size of coconuts but this raisin sacked bunch feels threatened in some way.My point? Who fu©king cares what a handful of hippies think about you online or off. Get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kung Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 I told you all not to wake me for 10,000 yrs. Now I will smite you all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcO Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 Kung lives!! :: :: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shitidiot Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 "Who fu©king cares what a handful of hippies think" I DO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booche Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 "It could have been when we got back from the bar and he had helped himself to everything else in my buddies overnight bag. " Interestingly enough, maybe that point is a figurative one? If not, stay away from my KY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted October 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 Maybe, his buddy was the one with the Salvia which I believe can be purchased for fifty cents a metric tonne. I hope you are all appreciating how much this irks me. Hell you raised the kung. I am hoping he passes out for another couple milennia, after the rager he had it might be a possibility. I am genuinely pissed off though just so there is no confusion. I work in a bureaucratic culture that like every bureaucracy strives for accountability. Of course bureaucracy is a term used pejoratively and while everyone apparently hates it everyone perpetuates it. It is an ass covering culture. In this sort of culture you have to be beyond reproach in every utterance you make oral and particularly written. If someone misunderstands you in writing, meaning if you left room to be misunderstood, there is a high degree of likelihood you'll catch hell. Given that I hang around here to get away from elements of that culture I REALLY loathe getting drawn into semantic lame ass bickering that would never occur face to face. Now you are in for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mister slippery Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 Given that I hang around here to get away from elements of that culture I REALLY loathe getting drawn into semantic lame ass bickering that would never occur face to face. Now you are in for it. You started all of this. You weren't exactly "drawn into" it. Wanna end the bickering? Don't bicker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Large Marge Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 For those of you who don’t know, I’m the “Suffering Fool” and the “Total Tool” being discussed here; Hmmm perhaps I should write a song? Just to set the record straight, I had seen the Golden Dogs before Saturday; in fact I was present at Hillside when Zero took the boot to the chest. I made it perfectly clear that while I understand that there is talent behind the music and energy behind the band, I simply do not care for their in-your-face cartoonish style; I went through that angst-ridden phase in high school. Actually, come to think of it, I’ve never enjoyed that whole Style Council/Strokes garage-new-wave sound. If I were a "uptight, closed minded boring dillhole" than I guess I simply would have refused to go. As it turned out, I sacrificed a set of Caution Jam on Zero’s good word and gave a proper listen while as he assumed his customary front-row persona. Upon departure, I was baited into trying to justify my opinion, as I feel am now here. I’m sorry if the fact that I don't absolutely love the Golden Dogs creates "an unconscious (or alternatively, blatantly overt) set of "rules" that must be adhered to before they can acknowledge appreciating something", but I don't see how faking or denying my own opinion in order to satisfy the requirements of others is going to benefit anyone. Zero - How is it that we're not supposed to take this personally, when you just laid down so much of our personal lives. Dude... Kung, Zero, Luke, whatever... you were an invited guest in our home; turning around and trash-talking us and our other guests, whether in irony or not, it's just not cool. Thanks to Willy, Number 2 and Mister Slippery for not being so quick to judge. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted October 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 And it's on.... Marge you are just making too too much of all this. Maybe you are accustomed to anonymity and because people were at the Rancho you worried to much people would think of you poorly. You can't, and here I mean I can't, be everything to everyone. I was a guest in your home and I think I behaved fairly well as a guest (the host not so good). Observing principals of being a good host run deep in hebraic and hellenic culture- treat every visitor as if they were Jesus or Zeus because they just could be. This isn't my christ complex rearing it's ugly head just an aside. What you did was make the mistake of adding to my already substantial stressors by calling me on something that you had been informed of third hand. I frankly refused to even consider the matter because it is so fu©king petty. I am made to account for other people's misinterpretations far too often and I am totally fu©king tired of it. I am sorry to, what's the word I'm looking for here, defend myself. You're roommate is a good sh!t and is tight with a lot of my old people, you're a good sh!t and so where the others. We all had a good time and like usual I opened my life and perceptions (opened them to potential misinterpretation) to the group. Based on the number of views that this thread (and frankly any thread I contribute to) has received people got something out of it. I really don't know what you could possibly have to be embarassed about. Me I have been called a mooch, egotist and thief do you think I would let that slide? Frankly it's disgusting and it shows you why I hate whole swathes of this scene. You have very eloquently described why subjectively you did not dig the Dogs. You are totally entitled to that view but curiously might not have found the words or motivation were it not for this thread. I think I had a legitimate insight which was based on your remark 'I get enough of the real world at work'. Now in this case you just didn't like their histrionics as you have ably describe. But also you may not have been in a place that was totally receptive to what they were putting out. See Philistinism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamilton Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 I’m sorry if the fact that I don't absolutely love the Golden Dogs creates "an unconscious (or alternatively, blatantly overt) set of "rules" that must be adhered to before they can acknowledge appreciating something", but I don't see how faking or denying my own opinion in order to satisfy the requirements of others is going to benefit anyone. If you've got legitimate reasons for not liking something, that's fine - but I think the point that was being made in the original statement was that many people in this scene (and yes, in all others as well) pre-determine that they won't like something because it doesn't fit into their narrow vision of what they conceive music to be. I know, because I used to be like that. When I was in university, I rejected out-of-hand any music that used samples, drum loops, drum machine, programming, and a whole host of other technological thingamabobs, as I saw it as "unmusical". How much great stuff did I miss out on, before opening my eyes, ears, and mind? How much thoughtless judgement did I pass? I think that was the point of the original post that you've quoted here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted October 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 I went back to my original post to see what you were all whining about (LargeMarge, MoMack and I am presuming Slippery is hiding behind an avatar). Seriously get off your high horse (and this is me talking for christ sake). I don't even want to bother quoting what I said but suffice to say you all did sh!t on the Dogs save for Marge who attempted to say she got it and just genuinely didn't like it. I did not get the same sense from the others. Let's try and appreciate that as a music journalist and lover I get very few moments like these - the moment of discovery of a great thing. I am genuinely struggling with whether as a community we have anything in common other than a handful of bands and drugs/alcohol. It strikes me more and more that we in fact do not have very much in common at all. This scenario was proof positive of that. I did in fact get drawn into this because I was not talking so much about the literal group I was with (who's the egotists now) as the phenomena. People I didn't know well who had the Grateful Dead's music in common didn't appreciate the uniqueness I perceived in the Golden Dogs. It's not a big deal but it is fascinating to discuss. I attributed it to not spending a great deal of time listening to new music and perhaps not knowing a great deal about the dynamics of musicians (of which I have rarely ever seen a lock such as the Dogs have and frankly I think it rivals a band like the Grateful Dead in their heyday as absurd as that likely sounds). There are so many facets to this, the ethics of being a good host, acquaintance vs. friendship, inclusion and exclusion. I am glad it has come to this but I would ask those throwing stones in glass houses to take a quick glance inward and acknowledge their complicity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bouche Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 XXXX and anyone else, please don't take it upon yourself to identify other people in the forum.If anyone wants to identify themselve's in regards to a previous vague post, that's up to the individual, but respect other people's anonymity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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