US Troops given E to cope

[PassedOutGuy]

Well guys, I hate to burst your bubble but I too have done this many times in the past and do agree with the depression that has been identified by studies... there were times when i did alot of it that I was in a deep deep depression for long stretches at a time... its not all shits and giggles kinda stuff... the posts above have glorified its use and thats something that we should think about beofre posting that in an open forum... bokonon is correct with the increase in seratonin levels the problem is is that your brain actually uses up all that extra and needs more to recover when coming down.. thus the low or depressed feelings people speak of... I for one and actually a few of my friends have experinced this as well...

all in moderation... be careful kids!

[elemeno]

if the gov't was going to give troops E. i would suggest the heady fat double stack macintosh-apple green rolls from this past summer.

[PassedOutGuy]

I was thinkin blue telephones from last summer actually...

wheres that purple...

[elemeno]

honorable mention -the red/green/brown mishmasshed ones. yep you know the ones i'm talkinbout.

[Del]

I think I got depressed once... That was after a week straight of consuming... Well, let's just say it was a serious binge... Plus there were mitigating factors regarding that depression... For the most part (99.8% of the time) "e" has treated me like fu©king gold. I honestly don't get depressed on the stuff, although I have seen friends of mine go into crying spats after coming down. I think that "e", like anything in life, treats different people differently... I honestly believe I was born to do drugs. They treat me right (ie. no really bad trips, always have a great time, etc.). I can't think of a time I regret doing what I did, but there were definately some times I should have shown a little more restraint...

[Del]

if the gov't was going to give troops E. i would suggest the heady fat double stack macintosh-apple green rolls from this past summer.

Agreed...

[ggrtrhhrtgg]

well, from my experiences in the world of E/MDMA, I would disagree with Bokonon's suggestion that it is addictive... I have an addictive personality, and I have never been addicted to the drug, although, I have had wonderful experiences on it... However, I would agree with the idea that it leads to immediate depression and to go beyond that, I feel like the MDMA I took last January had some sort of long term effect on me... When I took it again last summer, I took a major dip in the pond of that wonderful world on the outer edge of reality... And that is what the drug has done/given me... and as far as not being able to function sexually, I would dispute that based on my experiences...

And just for the record, I don't think I will ever do E/MDMA again.... Too many responsibilities to deal with now.

[paisley]

sometimes a mild depression afterwards but I'd say much less than boozing it up with your buddies all night and waking up swearing you'll never drink again

like anything you should keep you eye on your intake as too much of anything isn't good for you (candy, pizza, booze, E)

bokonon's description sounds like the cliche description to scare people off of "any drug America"... "first you take some and its all a big laugh but then you need a little more and then your sticking needles in your arm and stealing cars to get your next fix!"... was the lecture I got about pot when I was a kid (no offence boko)...

find it sadly amusing that if you're a kid with no future in an American ghetto you get jail time for trying to alter your reality yet speed and E are well and dandy in the armed forces

[Thorgnor]

"it's all a matter of serotonin levels. you take e and get a rush of serotonin in your system. then there's all this loose serotonin floating about and your brain won't absorb anymore of it so you feel like crap until you take e again. but this time you need just a little more. and then you take it once a week instead of once every two weeks. and by now you're doing two pills a night. then there's more loose serotonin with no where to go. so you take more e............" - Bokonon

What does serotonin do? Cause the APA isn't exactly sure. They know it's linked to some "abnormal": behaviours in some but in others elevated levels seem to be normal without the strange effects. Likewise for dopamine and about another 105 chemicals normally found in the brain. Serotonin is just popular. There is always "loose" serotonin all around your body. We depend on it partly for neurological functioning. That's all we know. To say that e elevates this isn't saying anything concrete.

Besides, simplifying addiction to "more and more" is an insult to the intelligence of most addicts. They mostly know what they are doing to themselves and for one reason or another don't mind the detrements. I would say most addicts could help teach us a lot about what drugs can and have done for us, as well as being able to give credible information regarding effects AND side-effects. I don't doubt that the effects are different in different people. Same for sugar, caffeine, ganja, LSD, mushrooms... dig it.

[PalacePrincess]

fu©kin' rave rats.

(heehee, just kidding )

-seratonin is the chemical your body naturally produces to make you feel happy. your body gradually releases it to keep your mood even.

-when you do E, all of your seratonin is released at once, which is where the "rush" and the euphoria comes from.

-once your body has processed all of the seratonin released in your system, there is none left to keep your mood at a constant, which is why you are cracked out, depressed, crazy etc.

absuse of E can lead to depression, anxiety, etc., because you're essentially fu©king around with your body's natural way of making itself feel happy. not a good thing to do.

no one really knows what the long term effects of E are, the drug hasn't been around long enough, and there hasn't been enough testing yet on large enough groups to properly identify what the long term effects can be.

as for the article, this is such a stupid lame brained idea. yeah, sure, people hesitant to talk about stuff sure can yabber away if they're high, but you know what? E ISN'T REAL!!!!!!!!!!!! IT'S NOT REAL!!!!!!!!! all that fu©king lovey dovey slobbery sh!t is FAKE. IT IS PART OF THE HIGH. you wake up the next morning going what the fu©k, who is this annoying moronic idiot i am talking to, that last night seemed like your new best friend ever. yeah sure, you may be pouring your heart out (and unable to shut up for hours), but do you really think you're baring the depths of your soul? no, you are fu©king drooling away on E chatter.

and then oooh wow, after this great, enlightening, amazing experience of euphoria, love & happiness, you come crashing down, pale, shakey, dehydrated, wondering what the fu©k is going on, feeling badly about everything, and wanting to crawl under a rock and heal up the holes you've chewed in your face. oh and let's not forget the 3-day after hangover, when you are totally cranky & crazy "for no real reason, but it sure isn't the E!" mmmm, yummy.

and ANYONE, absolutely ANYONE who can sit there and say "oh well, E doesn't affect me. i have no negative repercussions from it. it's GREAT!" is WRONG. all that means is you've either only done it a handful of times, or haven't been OFF it long enough to see what it is actually doing to you. i've been there, i've been the wow, this is the greatest drug in the world ever girl, it's all bullsh!t. if you are a regular user/abuser of ecstasy, stop taking it entirely for awhile. and i don't mean a few weekends in a row, i'm talking about 6 months, a year. you will be absolutely amazed at how crazy and generally fu©ked up (both physically & mentally) you were all that time you were a poster child for "this is great!". and i'm serious, it takes actually being completely clean from it for a lonnnng time to see what terrible effects it really does have on you.

and oooh, how inviting to talk to someone who is drooling & slobbering all over you, is all hunched over & pale, can't even speak a straight sentence without their eyes rolling back in their head, is unable to get a complete thought out, is chewing their face off and is swaying all over the place. oh yum!

*shudder*

i don't know, i'm not judging anyone, if E is your thang then yay, great for you. i've been there. i'm not turning my nose up at anyone, or looking down on anyone for enjoying it. i just hope the day you realize what a stupid, disgusting drug it really is comes sooner than later, because it is NOT good for you. not good for your body, not good for your mind, just eeeeeewwwwwww. especially since the quality of it is complete garbage these days. pretty much any "E" you can get in a pressed tablet is dirty, and you don't know really know what the fu©k is in it.

and i absolutely do not think it is a good idea to feed E to someone who is depressed and/or has mental issues as a means of therapy. we overmedicate as a society far too much as it is. and yabbering away on E is not exactly making breathroughs in talking about your problems, half the time you can't even remember what the hell you said when you were on it anyway.

[AdamH]

Back in the rave days I was all about mushrooms because as my E friends were starting to crash at say 5:00 or 6:00, I was wide awake and still dancing like an idiot. I used to eat mushrooms twice in the night and have a great time while people around me puked and ground their teeth raw. I didn't smoke any pot, and by 11:00 I could drive us wherever we needed to go. No paranoia, fell asleep when I wanted to...the drug treated me really well.

I've only tried MDMA once, on the Friday night at CTMF. It was in powder form and I ate it off a tangerine slice. The first hour or so was fantastic but then the wierdest thing happened...I went back to my tent to change into pants and all of a sudden felt a wave of tiredness. As I was lying in the tent putting pants on I must've passed right out (during Wasabi) and woke up at 6:00 as if I'd taken a quick 10 minute nap. I wandered into the saloon and talked to the clint eastwood poster, ate some killer speed and stayed up for the rest of the weekend.

In any case I don't have any desire to try E or MDMA again, I think I just really like mushrooms and as with Del I've rarely had bad trips in my life. I'll go to my grave preaching moderation, and while I don't regret anything I've done the times were things were less than perfect were the times where I overdid something. I love that I can smoke a bowl and feel great for a as long as I want, whereas in high school I was puffing down on these enormous joints and getting completely wasted between classes.

[Kaidy Mae]

There are obviously going to be people on this board both for and against this issue. I'll ride the fence here to avoid being a total hypocrite. I see the beauty in a music-filled night with friends and a little Molly. However, I think moderation is still the key...and that is a very subjective thing. I really enjoy the times I've had, but I've slowed down due to the emotional hangovers associated with such wild times.

Although I have no issue with people using E, I don't understand why the government wouldn't look to more natural alternatives to depression and PTSD. SamE and 5-HTP have been very effective in treating depression and anxiety. Yet the government (both US and Canadian) has little interest in studying these substances. This makes me highly suspicious...especially due to the American involvement with such E studies. A pharmaceutical company is lurking in the shadows. This study wouldn't be underway if the sickly aroma of dirty money wasn't in the air.

I have also read in pro-MDMA studies that the alteration of serotonin production may not fully set in for 7 years. There may be a whole generation of depressed adults to deal with in the future.

Better yet, why not work harder to solve the problems that cause war and not the ones that are a result of them?

[onthejourney]

I am in complete agreement with PalacePrincess. As someone who has also been the person who thought it was the most awesome thing and thought "oh, i don't do it that much...no big deal"---all B.S.!! I did a whole hell of alot of e and you definitely don't realize what it was doing to you until you have stopped for a significant amount of time (all the people i did it with are sharing similar long term effects as me)....not to mention all the other crap other than MDMA that your body gets more addicted to. I remember I finally got a job while I was doing tonnes of e....i kept the job for 1 week because I would puke everyday at work from withdrawal...i couldn't do my job cuz i needed to be high.

I don't regret what i did cuz i learned lots and I wouldn't be where i am today but it is a bullsh!t drug and I am better off without it in my life. If ya want to do it than so it shall be, I don't look down or judge but as someone who cares; I worry, that's all.

Kaidy Mae---as for the pharmie companies, I will be posting something regarding what those bastards have been up to with the UN in the next week.

[Calamity Jane]

Although I have no issue with people using E, I don't understand why the government wouldn't look to more natural alternatives to depression and PTSD. SamE and 5-HTP have been very effective in treating depression and anxiety. Yet the government (both US and Canadian) has little interest in studying these substances. This makes me highly suspicious...especially due to the American involvement with such E studies. A pharmaceutical company is lurking in the shadows. This study wouldn't be underway if the sickly aroma of dirty money wasn't in the air.

Better yet, why not work harder to solve the problems that cause war and not the ones that are a result of them?

excellent and thoughtful points KM. we'll have to have a conversation some day about SamE and 5-HTP ---substances I have never heard of.

and just to reiterate, repeat, re-cap (teacher, that I am) moderation is indeed the key to healthy enjoyment of ANY mind- or body-altering substance!

[Del]

I remember I finally got a job while I was doing tonnes of e....i kept the job for 1 week because I would puke everyday at work from withdrawal...i couldn't do my job cuz i needed to be high.

Really? I held down a job for almost 4 years during the peak of my usage, sometimes going in on like 2 or 3 hours sleep ('gator and Esau can verify this). Never had problems at work, in fact I quickly rose up the ranks and was considered one of their best workers, according to the manager... Like I said, different effects on different people. And I've basically been off rolls for over 6 months (I think I've had them like 10 times in 6 months, spread out over time) and I don't feel down, or like I'm going through withdrawals... Just like everyone can't necessarily handle their booze, I don't think everyone can handle their drugs. That's not to say that people won't have a good time on them, just that the after effects will treat people differently. Having personally gone from the rave scene to the jam scene, and taking more than my fair share of "e" throughout, I can say it treats me right. Mind you, I don't think anyone should necessarily follow my lead, I'm the furthest thing from a role model you can find...

[secondtube]

And I've basically been off rolls for over 6 months (I think I've had them like 10 times in 6 months, spread out over time) and I don't feel down, or like I'm going through withdrawals...

thats still 1.5 times a month....thats not really off it.

I stopped eating chemicals summer 2003, and didn't notice the effects, fully, until recently....

Last fall was when my brain finally starting working 100% properly again...almost a full year and a bit after quitting completely.

I also know a few friends that still party hard, and are pretty much brainiac genious's. As del said, different effects on different people.

[Del]

Compared to how much I used to take it, trust me, that's pretty much off it...

[secondtube]

i understand that...and dont dispute that.

BUT, trust me, you wont start feeling true effects of not being on it till you completely stop, and for a while.

i'm not trying to tell you to quit, slow down, or anything. seriously. i'm just saying, from my experience, i didn't feel the effects from quitting for a long time after i stopped completely.

as i said, i have some very successful friends, well into their mid life, who still do lots of drugs...and they are very, very smart.

each to their own.

[Blurry]

My reality is that I stopped doing E because it was 100% fu©king up my saratonin levels. It took me a long time to admit that. For a very long time, I blamed it on everything else. Don't get me wrong - I love the feeling I had while I was on it but for at least 2 days after I'd take E, I didn't want to go outside, or really see anyone. I didn't necessarily feel depressed - more angry. The slightest thing would piss me off or annoy me. I wasn't a pleasant person to be around at all. Most of the time I didn't even want to be around myself! It wasn't always that way....for the first couple of years, well the first year for sure, anytime I'd do it I'd be fine the next day and day after that and so on. But it's kinda like when you were in high school (or whatever you were in) when you first started drinking. You could go out and get absolutely fall-down drunk sh!t-faced and get up early the next morning and feel like you hadn't even had a drink the night before. I wish it were still that way but the fact is, after a while the body reacts - harder and for longer periods of time.

I'll tell you since I've stopped doing it everything's become clear again - furthermore I'm allowing the universe to flow naturally in my life and it is rewarding me. I was just saying to Mud the other day - this sobriety from E almost makes me feel like I'm high on it again for the first time. Everything is clear, my mind, my body, my spirit.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that nobody should ever do it. I'm just vocalizing what I know is real for me!

I think drugs are great! But I think so long as they are done in moderation. Now moderation is a word that brings with it a fine line, but if you look deep enough within and are true to yourself, you'll know where that line ends and where it begins!

[onthejourney]

well part of that work problem might have been that the e's i had been doing for 2 weeks prior had PCP in them which could cause more of a withdrawal. Granted, it affects people differently. No doubt about that one. I don't really want to get all preachy or anything as I think I have done that before on here and have mentioned the main reason/circumstance why I don't do it anymore and why I don't think others should. I genuinely worry about people. All it takes is once. I don't go by drug campaigns or the gov't or the like. I speak from personal experience and not experience that was only a couple times but a few years of really hard use and from what I saw and was apart of during that time and how I can still see the effects of it in me today after 4 years of being chemical-free.

I think we have had this discussion somewhat before Del. I challenge you to go 6 months totally without it! If ya do it, you do it; if you don't you don't; you know (or at least should know) it's because I care. Even if you still do it, I will care about you just the same.

Again, no judgement. I just worry sometimes. I was 'there' once too.

[Del]

I remember that conversation... Why would I want to go 6 months without something I genuinely enjoy? If it started affecting my work, or relationships with people, then yes, I see reason for concern. Fortunately, those kinds of problems don't seem to be happening to me. I go to work every day, work hard and am good at my job. I hang out with my friends, who don't seem to be put off by my drug use, because it's not all-consuming... I don't do drugs during the week, and when I do them on the weekend, I do them because they will enhance something, not just for the sake of taking the drug... If it were ever to become a problem, I would hope that my friends would step up and let me know, that's just never been the case with me...

[onthejourney]

i realize you enjoy it...so did i..immensely! than don't quit doing it...like I said. But I will just say that even though it doesn't seem to effect you now it is taking a toll on you internally and it will catch up with you. Or who knows, maybe one day you might take the wrong pill. I don't want to get harsh or whatever. But ya know what? To put it bluntly...I don't want to see someone die again! or hear about it happening to someones friend again. Harsh but that's the way it is. Not trying to scare you or anything but you know why I feel the way I do about this. Thinking about it brings me to tears. I just care. Do what you want but I will still care. Doesn't mean that if i see you or anyone else on drugs at a show or festival that I will get in your face...cuz I won't but I will make sure that you are doing okay and see if you need anything if you are not okay. That is who I am. I look out for people.

I am happy for you that it has not interfered with your work or that it is not all-consuming for you.

[secondtube]

allz i can say is, no one quits until they want to.

simple as that.

[Del]

Don't think I don't appreciate the concern... Trust me I do... I know that a lot of people have been affected negatively by drugs, I just don't happen to be one of them. (At least not yet, but should that happen, it's nice to know that there are people out there who do care).

[onthejourney]

agreed secondtube...i am not trying to force anyone to quit. Just stating my feelings in regard. I think it is best if I steer clear of these conversations from now on.