US Troops given E to cope

[\/\/illy]

I have a question for the people promoting the clarity achieved from abstaining from Ecstasy (I agree for the record): Have you experimented with or considered the clarity that might be achieved if you were to abstain from smoking marijuana products and/or drinking? I'm fairly certain that at least some of you E-abstainees are very heavy marijuana consumers. Have you considered a 'long' break from that? This is just something I have pondered myself and I wonder if other people have as well.

[Sunshine]

I must say I'm probably on the same thought wave as PalacePrincess and OntheJourney.

And I also believe "each to their own". I've realized over the years you can't preach to a friend that has no desire to stop doing a drug. I was once the person people being preached to. They were great friends, but I certainly didn't give a fu©k what they had to say about drugs. I loved the drugs, and I knew how great they made me feel, and no one was going to tell me different. I soon learned how right they were.

I was just saying to a friend the other day how much I would love to feel that buzz one more time, but it's taken so much time to recover from the way I abused it. Using the drug to separate me from my real life, and my real problems.....not a fantastic idea! Not to mention the emotional drama and physical damage that happened to me. AGAIN ...I realize everyone's body relates different to drugs. I just got the sh!t-end of the stick. It wasn't until I moved to Ottawa and I found a happiness and security that I never felt before, that I was finally able to say good bye to the chemicals.

Yes, it can make a festival or the sound of music out of this world.

But I don't think they should give the troops E to help them deal with the negative situation they've had to endure. It's just the governments guilt of what they had to put these poor men and woman through.

Let's induce "fake happiness" to help their tortured souls!!!

Society is fu©ked!

[Blurry]

Have you experimented with or considered the clarity that might be achieved if you were to abstain from smoking marijuana products and/or drinking?

That's a hard one Willy. Definitely thought about stopping drinking. I don't do it much as it it (maybe have 2-3 drinks/wk on avg) - but almost everytime I get into it, I wish I didn't. Never leaves me feeling good.

As for smoking pot. Well, I'll tell you one thing stopping would help me with......it would get rid of this girl boob I've had growing for a couple of years now (been smoking pot for 14 or so years) That's right a GIRL BOOB. Some of you have seen it but for those of you who haven't this is the story. My right boob starting growing a couple of years ago....and it would really hurt when I hugged Mud or anyone else or someone banged into to it etc. Mud told me it sounded like the same kind of pain as a young girl (11 or 12 year old) would have when they start "blossoming". So I went to the hospital in Chatham to have the lump removed. The Doc told me it could be 1 of 3 things. 1) cancer - which it wasn't 2) something else I can't remember (probably from smoking too much pot) that he said it wasn't or 3) he asked me if I smoked pot. I said yes, and he said that is what it was from. Of course I didn't believe him. He said I could stop smoking and it'd probably go away after a while or he could take it out. I told him to go get the knife. Well he didn't take it all out and the small amount that was left has grown back to the same size (surgery was a year ago). After it started growing back, and still not believing that's why, I went back to the Doctor's but this time in Mount Forest, where they had no files or records etc. of me. I said nothing of the other doc's "pot" theory. He ends up asking me the same thing....."do you smoke marijuana?". "Ya why? You wanna go burn one outside" I reply. And he proceeded to tell me that my boob was "blossoming" because I smoked pot. Another doc with no links to the other two has since told me the same thing. They all said it's very rare and there's no rhyme or reason to why it happens to a select few and not to others but the first doc did say that smoking pot produces higher amounts of estrogen. I suppose on the upside, when Mud and I have kids, I'll be able to feed them when she needs a break :: ::

Otherwise, I've slowed down from everyday to a couple/three times a week. I have taken a hiatus before and what I've found that 1) I wasn't as tired in the morning and 2) I stopped eating myself to sleep. That's the biggest problem I have with pot is I get the MUNCHIES BIG TIME!! (but only if I'm sitting around my place just hanging out - if I'm keeping busy the munchies subside) However, I love smoking pot and well, I'm not a miracle worker.....I can only take it one step at a time! However I don't see myself ever giving it up completely (but I did say that about E at one point too)

Hope that's provides some insight Willy

[paisley]

Well, I'll tell you one thing stopping would help me with......it would get rid of this girl boob I've had growing for a couple of years now

well, probably a good thing for your hairline and your prostate...

Gynecomastia

Finally, drugs can also cause breast enlargement. Estrogens are given to men to treat prostate cancer and a few other diseases. Marijuana and heroin, along with some prescription drugs, have estrogen effects in some men. On the list are methyldopa (for blood pressure), cimetidine (for peptic ulcers), diazepam (Valium), antidepressants, and spironolactone (a diuretic).

[Esau]

I have a question for the people promoting the clarity achieved from abstaining from Ecstasy (I agree for the record): Have you experimented with or considered the clarity that might be achieved if you were to abstain from smoking marijuana products and/or drinking? I'm fairly certain that at least some of you E-abstainees are very heavy marijuana consumers. Have you considered a 'long' break from that? This is just something I have pondered myself and I wonder if other people have as well.

I have...and did. Right after I got outta jail in july until december.

Smoked some herb here and there during that time,took a break from all chems,cut the beer/booze intake back,going out to bars etc and did feel alot more better in mind & spirit to a degree,gave me time to evaluate where I was at,what I was doing and what I didn't want.

Now-a-days for me anyway,its all about timing.

[TomFoolery]

This is a pretty interesting line of discussion. I've had a theory for some time concerning drug use / moderation / and 'responsible' consumption.

When I was 24 I got a stomach ulcer from too much booze. So, I quit drinking for two years.

I didn't ever consume anything harder than shrooms or various forms of thc until I was around 26. That year I tried both e and lsd. About a year later I started thinking about all the stories (a lot of them similar to what has been written here) my friends had told me of their experiences and what advice I would give to others.

My opinion (and that's all it is) is that most drugs can be safely used if you've got yourself mentally straightened out.

By the time I started playing with more serious psychedelics I really had had time to learn who I was and what I wanted out of life, my relationships with other people and my experiences in general. I didn't have any of the bullsh1t hang-ups that go along with being 16, 18, or even 22.

As a result, I never felt drawn to over use or even all-that-regular use. Being a non drinker for two years showed me how much fun it can be to go out partying and just watching everyone else get wasted (I'm one of the few people that actually likes drunks). So, even though I love the high from good drugs I am also very happy to save it for special occasions.

I've been really happy with who I am, where I'm going and how I'm getting there for a long time. So, I don't feel that drugs work as an escape for me. Rather, I start to feel like I'm missing out from the rest of my life if I go off on too serious a bender.

I guess, the end result is the same. The idea of using e on troops is absolutely absurd from my point of view. I agree with most here that it will not help them with the deep / central problem.

If they want to effectively treat the troops they should start with foreign policy that eschews peace.

$0.02

[Esau]

Great points Tomfoolery.

I didnt start indulging in some of the mentioned chems or nitrous for example until I was 30.

[Steve from Cleveland]

I'm really not sure about this whole discussion... So many different ideas... I know, personally, that E does have some type of effect on brain chemistry. Some of it is for a few hours, and some of the effects probably last at least a few months out or longer... As someone struggling with sobritey, I can attest to the fact that it is interesting to note noticible changes as you go stretches of time without introducing chemicals into your body, as Blair eluded to. Beer/Pot/E/Whatever your drug(s) of choice may be, they all affect your mind and body in different ways, but the bottom line is that they ALL affect your mind and body...

I have personally felt ill-effects for days and weeks after taking E, but not every time, and not all the time. So I'm sure that it also depends on what kind/how much/what it was cut with and such.

Anyway, I was going to stay out of this discussion, and probably should have... But I do know this, and you can take it at face value, or disregard it altogether. Moderation is certainly better than over-indulgence. Furthermore, as has been pointed out by others, someone is not going to stop doing something they like unless they have a good reason or desire to. When/If people DO eventually stop using whatever chemicals they use, only then will they see that they were being affected in ways they previously would have denied.

I don't mean to sound too preachy, either, and I hope I didn't come off that way. All I know is that I have been thinking about/struggling with issues related to substance use/abuse for a whilenow, and it is definately something that causes people (me particularly) to deny that there is an effect until you are FORCED to admit it.

And like anything, everyone has to do their own risk/benefit analysis. If the benefit is worth the risk, enjoy. If not, don't... Or something...

[Alexis]

Hmmm, I've wanted to reply to this for awhile. It's an interesting topic.

The first drug I EVER took was E when I was 18. i looked into it for quite awhile first, talked about it a lot with a good friend that had encouraged me to try it. So on Oct 30, 1999 I took E. My life changed in that night, and in a very positive way. In that one pill I found that inhibitions were holding me back. That there was a lot more to being social and being a part of the moment than I'd ever thought before. And I took those lessons that I learned and used them every day of my life since. It's engrained in me now. It's a part of who I am, and I'm grateful.

The next week I did it all over again, and it kind of soured the experience I'd had. But I didn't let it get to me and held onto what I'd gotten out of it the first time.

Over the next few months I tried weed, mushrooms and did more E on and off. Then I got into the E relatively heavily. It now no longer works on me at all. I don't do pressies at all anymore. I don't see the point. I took it for that body rush you get, the feeling you first get when it feels so good to run your fingers through your hair, and you know "Ok! let's get started!". i don't get any of that anymore, and so i don't do it. Also the fact that I feel like I'm going to have a heart attack when I do it doesn't help. i took breaks, 8 months, 6 months, a year and would try it again, still didn't work. Even MDMA doesn't work like pressies used to back in the day. So why bother? It's a waste of my time, money and a pill that someone else could be enjoying.

I would seriously argue that drug use will effect your relationships, work, habits, life in general. Anything that is a serious player in your life, whether it be a person, habit or substance will do so. just because you haven't had an intervention doesn't mean your friends aren't concerned. More often than not, people blame the problems (if they're acknowledging them) on their substance of choice. Well it's more than that, there's a reason you're using the substance and that's what has to be dealt with. I think that there are therapeutic uses for E. it used to be used in marriage counciling. if there are mental barriers that inhibitions or stress or whathaveyou are causing E can be a great way to break through that. Just don't spill your guys, figure out why you can't spill your guts in the first place and deal with that. That's kind of what happened to me I guess that first time. It's just like taking any drug that deals with a psychological problem, you take it to help you cope with the symptoms of the illness while methods of coping with the illness and it's problems are developed and then you're weaned off the drug or in some cases you just stop taking it. However, if you're taking it recreationally it's a completely different story.

As most are saying, too much of a good thing, can and will become a bad thing. no doubt about it.

[Steve from Cleveland]

Oh yeah...

1 "e" pill : $xx.xx (Very different, in Canada, I'm sure than what we pay in the states).

1 gram molly : $xx.xx

1 ounce pot : $xx.xx

The thought of an eventual mudcock suckling at Blair's man-bosom : PRICELESS...

S from C

[AdamH]

Now I have to actually ask what molly is, because I thought e = molly.

[Steve from Cleveland]

I would seriously argue that drug use will effect your relationships, work, habits, life in general. Anything that is a serious player in your life, whether it be a person, habit or substance will do so. just because you haven't had an intervention doesn't mean your friends aren't concerned. More often than not, people blame the problems (if they're acknowledging them) on their substance of choice. Well it's more than that, there's a reason you're using the substance and that's what has to be dealt with.

I agree... One thing to consider, though, is that people often use/abuse substances as a way of self-medicating. For example, the discussion has already come up about how e affects one's Seratonin/Dopamine/other Neurotransmitter levels. There is evidence that it temporarily increases such levels of neurotransmitters. So it is possible that people find substances that "balance out" their chemical levels to where they should be. Then they become dependant on said substance, blaming their problems on that substance, instead of, as you suggested, dealing with the underlying problem.

I also agree with PP that we tend to OVER-medicate people nowadays. What I struggle with is the notion of balancing theraputic benefit with inherent risk... People take all kinds of antidepressants to achive the similar result as taking e. both tend to inhibit the reuptake of seratonin in the brain, leaving more floating around in there, if you will, which makes people tend to feel "happier." Why is one seen as theraputic and one seen as abuse? Other than that's what the politicians WANT you to believe? Isn't how the pharm. companies market their products just as "bad" as other ways people market illicit drugs?

Just some more thoughts...

[secondtube]

Longest i've went without smoking pot, since i started smoking, was four months...

my head was clearer.

ends didn't justify the means.

[Steve from Cleveland]

Now I have to actually ask what molly is, because I thought e = molly.

It's MY understanding (and I could be wrong on this, so correct me if I am) that "e" refers to a vast variety of preparations which include MDMA, but not exclusively. That's why you hear of pressies being "speedy", "smacky", etc. Because of what the MDMA is cut and pressed with.

Molly is slang for pure MDMA powder (which may or may not ACTUALLY be pure) which, in my experience, smells a lot like black licorice, and is kind of a "wet" crystal... I'm not sure about the chemical term that that refers to, but I know all the good molly I've done had those properties...

So, again I could be wrong, but as far as I know, molly's the pure powder (1 dose ~ 1/10th gram) and the pressed pills are cut/filled with various other things which give them different charachteristics....

[onthejourney]

In response to Willy's comment..I don't really smoke weed anymore except for the odd one toke here and there although I have no problem with people who do. It just wasn't making me feel that great anymore so I rarely feel like smokin it much. Although, I do like to cook with it on occasion and I do see it as a wonderful medicine. Drinking-wise I don't drink that much although probably once a month I do get too drunk and pay for it the next day. Other than those two things I maybe chew 1 gram of shrooms total in one year.

"there's a reason you're using the substance and that's what has to be dealt with."

agreeing with alexis on that one...no matter what the substance is. We are all dealing with sh!t in our lives but I guess it is how you choose to go about 'dealing' with it.

[Super Freak]

well, from my experiences in the world of E/MDMA,

There's an E/MDMA world??? I should do more drugs.

[Blurry]

Gynecomastia

Finally, drugs can also cause breast enlargement. Estrogens are given to men to treat prostate cancer and a few other diseases. Marijuana and heroin, along with some prescription drugs, have estrogen effects in some men. On the list are methyldopa (for blood pressure), cimetidine (for peptic ulcers), diazepam (Valium), antidepressants, and spironolactone (a diuretic).

Hey Thanks Paisley,

That's more information than I've gotten from the 3 doc's combined!

[MamaPink]

I just stumbled upon this thread today... and wow, I honestly can't believe that some people think there are no bad effects from E.

PP, remember those sunday mornings when the sun would come up and we'd count down the minutes until the beer store opened. Yes, that's when all we'd feel was the beer drowning out any leftover edge topped with a little pot to help us giggle again. (sigh) the good ol' ignorant days of no after effects.

It's not addictive? Come on now. Just because you aren't doing it everyday, doesn't mean you're not addicted. I can't tell you how many times I've had people tell me they aren't addicted, but they never seem to be able to get through a party without taking it. Addiction means you're dependant. If you don't think you can have a good time, or stay up late without eating a pill... then you're dependant/addicted.

I gotta admit, it's been really nice to have a clear head these past few months (although the hormones are a totally different battle i'm finding) and it's really made me realize how much I was addicted to that drug. Over the years I've cut back considerably, often taking long breaks from it - but i always came back to visit with my dear friend E-laine. And I will also admit that if we had never planned to get pregnant, I would have never gone this long without it. WHY? Because i'm addicted. I crave it all the time, i honestly do - and the sad thing I've realized is that I probably always will.

Hi, my name is LittlemissPink and I am an E-oholic.

[timouse]

wow. great thread.

very interesting to get stories about e. i have always been skeptical of pharmaceuticals, but was willing to dose once in a blue moon. i have only recently learned about e and went from thinking it was likely a bad news drug (thanks tv!) to thinking it was the best thing ever (thanks deb!) to now being not entirely sure.

nobody fully understands brain chemistry, we're really playing with powers beyond our control every time we dial in to the electropshychedelic power grid. e is wonderful, but it's square wave power...eventually it will damage some of your meatware. maybe we are preparing a generation of serotonin deficient seniors

not to come down against it, i will hopefully be doing e and a until i'm old & gray, but i'm more and more mindfull of the toll to be paid.

timouse

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

Agreed. That old adage, "If it's seems too good to be true, it probably is," is probably true. I suppose a good indicator is whether you come out on the other side with any awareness of debility or whether you're too debilitated to notice. That seems to be the case with crystal meth, which I've avoided like the plague, particularly having seen cautionary examples; same goes for coke, too, which seemed to have the capacity to turn people into assholes like nobody's business. One of the profs at Laurier I was talking with recently said she could pick out the signs of students nursing e hangovers from the other side of the room, and was wondering too what sort of geriatrics they were going to make.

Meh. Like I said somewhere above, back in the day, all I remember was acid and shrooms, and I don't remember anyone complaining .

[Calamity Jane]

i have only recently learned about e and went from thinking it was likely a bad news drug (thanks tv!) to thinking it was the best thing ever (thanks deb!) to now being not entirely sure.

yeah, tim. I think I still am the e-poster- child. Dave & I did so much LSD our first few years together, and then grew up/grew out of it -- whatever. Now in my own "middle-age" e seems like such a gift. For sure there's a bit of hell to pay the next day -- for me it's all physical, though, and there's (so far) been no debilitating emotional/depression stuff. {as an aside, I gues it's all about which organ you're willing to risk: liver (booze), lungs (pot), or brain (LSD and e). Or some may want to go for the whole trifeca/hat-trick!

I really do believe that pyschedelics (I know MDMA is not quite one) tend to amplify what kind of head space (& place in the cosmos) one feels one is in. Also from (limited) experience, I've seen what e can do to help people move away from fear/paranoia/emotional paralysis. And as someone who works with survivors of sexual violence, I really DO see the therapeutic uses of e. Drugs are never meant to just be "party-supplements" Anyone who does them solely for that end may be getting into more than they can handle (bad trips, remorse, depression, etc.)

The lovely "adam" after-effects of e are precisely what keeps drawing me to it. To quote Babbs (Merry Prankster), from a thread Paisely posted:

The acid tests were a natural outcome of our desires to get together with others and get high and dig the music and the scene and stay up all night and go home the next day a better person, ready to tackle the world with a big smile and hie-dee-doo.

And Tim, for you and Jen specifically, but also Mark, Liana, and all the other mice and good friends: another quote from the same article:

truly, I feel the answer to the following question is what life is all about (but also add in "raising funky, healthy, enviro-conscious kids"):

QUESTION: What did you feel you learned individually from your

life with the Pranksters?

How to grow old with a good bunch of good friends doing a lot of great things together: how to get along and how to co-operate in putting on shows and putting together very complicated journeys, also known as trips.